Trial Discussion Thread #35 - 14.05.08 Day 28

[katydid23]

I get the knocking sound of a ping pong ball every few seconds. Dunno what that is, it's been doing it all day.

I get a sound like that too on some audio sites. It is the sound of a new 'text' on their live chat stream thingie?

 

[patCee]

If RS was shot in hip and or arm, as per Wolmaran's view, close to the door. How quickly would the wounds have bled? There is no blood on the floor directly inside the toilet door.

 

[Viper]

One of the most damning of Mangena's findings was the left to right progression of the shots, indicating to me that OP was tracking Reeva as he fired. If the judge believes Wolmaran that the order of shots can't be determined, then he's helped OP immensely imo, but Nel's challenge of WW about that will be a must-watch.

OP was tracking Reeva, that's true. But he was not stationary, standing in one spot with his hand on the wall for balance. If you look at the trajectory rods image, the one taken in the WC from above, OP was moving left to right with every consecutive shot that he fired.

Nel did not ask Magena about that IIRC, but I hope he gets an opportunity to. Or perhaps Nel will get W to discuss it; that would be great fun!

 

[JuneBug67]

Compassion? For a man that confessed to killing his girlfriend who was locked in a closet by firing 4 hollow points at her? I don't think so, perhaps after he has served say 20 or 25 years and has atoned.

Balanced? Well I have heard you and others refer to his trouble in taking responsibility for his crimes and his childish self absorbed behavior in court. But for me the sum of that is OP is a coward. To balance it I would say OP is a coward that ... Hmm, just what exactly are OPs redeeming qualities? They escape me at the moment.

I really appreciated Hope4More's words. Compassion is the word I'd choose for what I feel for Reeva and her surviving family and friends. I think what I feel in that realm for Oscar is something more like empathy. It's not the only thing I feel in regard to him, but it's the one many would have a hard time connecting with.

 

[IfIMay]

I really appreciated Hope4More's words. Compassion is the word I'd choose for what I feel for Reeva and her surviving family and friends. I think what I feel in that realm for Oscar is something more like empathy. It's not the only thing I feel in regard to him, but it's the one many would have a hard time connecting with.

I might be able to feel it for him if had taken ANY true responsibility for what he's done. He's still minimizing it to save his own skin. When he is finally truthful and humble in accepting his actions, then I will have some empathy or compassion. He's not there yet, so neither am I. He is all about himself and HIS loss, as the social worker said. He has no empathy for Reeva and has never said anything about what SHE lost.

 

[DebinGA]

OP was tracking Reeva, that's true. But he was not stationary, standing in one spot with his hand on the wall for balance. If you look at the trajectory rods image, the one taken in the WC from above, OP was moving left to right with every consecutive shot that he fired.!

And the light was ON! Viper, would you please describe where you think OP was when he fired the first shot and where he was after the fourth? Didn't he claim he was near the entrance to the bathroom and not well into the room?

 

[Nausicaa]

I'm wondering about Lundrgen's description of Reeva as "pre-menopausal" as a factor that may have slowed down the stomach-digestion phase.
She was under 30 and therefore not pre-menopausal in layman's terms, but I see from Googling it that the term is sometimes used in medical contexts to deisgnate the whole period from onset of menstruation to the menopause. But on that definition, is it really true that female stomach digestion is significantly delayed for the whole of the period of thirty to forty years in which they are "pre-menstrual"? Is it not rather that stomach digestion is only significantly slowed down in the much shorter period when fertility really tails off - a stage which Reeva had not yet reached?

 

[crowmarsh]

My thoughts are this is a murder trial, and in some cases witness' can be at some risk of reprisals, not to mention their evidence compromised. The friend like members of OP's family, live in Jo Bg. I'm not saying OP is like the mafia exactly, but he is from a powerful family as seen in the 'brushing over' of his previous criminal behaviour. I think she and her family have some reason to be nervous.

Succintly put which is why the matter should imo be pursued

 

[DebinGA]

If RS was shot in hip and or arm, as per Wolmaran's view, close to the door. How quickly would the wounds have bled? There is no blood on the floor directly inside the toilet door.

View attachment 43373

View attachment 43374

And keeping in mind Reeva's arm was nearly amputated .... Did Wolmarans mention the magazine rack at all?

 

[Viper]

I really appreciated Hope4More's words. Compassion is the word I'd choose for what I feel for Reeva and her surviving family and friends. I think what I feel in that realm for Oscar is something more like empathy. It's not the only thing I feel in regard to him, but it's the one many would have a hard time connecting with.

BIB. Oh definitely!

But really, looking at what he has admitted that he has done, what about him is there to empathize with? That he is being wrongly charged and prosecuted for murder? Because it was truly putative self defense wrapped in an accidental firing of his gun four times? Perhaps I should empathize with all that he has lost, his fame and fortune and his future? Surely that is too high a price for him to pay. Or I should empathize with such a handsome young man that overcame his disability only to find himself in a courtroom facing life in a SA prison? That is heartbreaking to many I'm sure.

I have no empathy for him at all. I could. But he would have to take responsibility for what he has done, and that is not going to happen.

 

[G.bng]

I think whatever the defence say there will be a big cross exam from Nel on the shot sequence .
Can Mangena be called back ? Or will he just advise Nel ?

Up to now it seems it is on an advisory basis that he confers with previous State witnesses but precisely today he asked Masipa if he needed to in the furture could he bring a previous witness back and it appears he can but will have to apply to the court for permission on a case by case basis when the need arises.

 

[Viper]

And the light was ON! Viper, would you please describe where you think OP was when he fired the first shot and where he was after the fourth? Didn't he claim he was near the entrance to the bathroom and not well into the room?

IIRC (emphasis added!) Others would have a better recollection about this than I do, but... He said that he was near the entrance when he fired all of the shots, bracing himself by holding his left hand against the wall. The one spent casing ejected in to the hallway matches that, but the other three are inside of the bathroom and the trajectory rods show him moving left to right inside the bathroom as he continued to fire.

 

[crowmarsh]

It's Myers, not Myer. If it's possessive, it's Myers'. She also means implies his chivalry in court, not infers. And as far as "something to be wonder about Pistorius mental state," yeah, that one's right, even though it wasn't expressed correctly. But I don't think asking someone "How can you sleep at night?" is engaging them in conversation, nor do I think it's in any way sinister. j/s

Are you the grammar monitor

 

[steveml]

The reason the joke that "20 minutes after eating Chinese food you're hungry again" is based on the fact that small pieces of food are quicker to digest and faster out of the stomach. So, what's the point of argument?

Rate of digestion is determined by mechanics and chemical enzymes. There may be a small difference in digestion rate because of size, however vegetables in a stir fry are not particular small when compared to something like grains of rice. All food ends up as a type of 'slurry' mass regardless of it's original size and shape.

The theory regarding feeling hungry after Chinese food is commonly attributed because of the high level of carbohydrates and sugar incorporated with low levels of fat. It's believed you get a sort of glycemic spike and then a crash. MSG used to be mentioned as the one of the main culprits, however I don't think it's used very much nowadays.

 

[soozieqtips]

I really appreciated Hope4More's words. Compassion is the word I'd choose for what I feel for Reeva and her surviving family and friends. I think what I feel in that realm for Oscar is something more like empathy. It's not the only thing I feel in regard to him, but it's the one many would have a hard time connecting with.

BBM - your post below didn't seem very compassionate towards Kim Myers at all, and she is a close friend of Reeva.

I think he probably did say it, and doing so was dumb and denying it dumber. But he clearly feels unfairly treated by Myers' past statements and the reasonable interpretation of this is a guilt trip and character judgement rather than a threat.
I'd probably admire Myers more if she just let it roll off her rather than behave as if there is some fundamental human right not to be spoken to by Oscar Pistorius when she herself has spoken freely as she saw fit.

 

[Karmady]

I'm wondering about Lundrgen's description of Reeva as "pre-menopausal" as a factor that may have slowed down the stomach-digestion phase.
She was under 30 and therefore not pre-menopausal in layman's terms, but I see from Googling it that the term is sometimes used in medical contexts to deisgnate the whole period from onset of menstruation to the menopause. But on that definition, is it really true that female stomach digestion is significantly delayed for the whole of the period of thirty to forty years in which they are "pre-menstrual"? Is it not rather that stomach digestion is only significantly slowed down in the much shorter period when fertility really tails off - a stage which Reeva had not yet reached?

Based on the real time notes here, she said that the delay depends on where a pre-menopausal is in her cycle. So it wouldn't be a constant delay over the whole 30-40 years

 

[crowmarsh]

I wasn't referring to Myers, but to the witness', plural, who overheard OP's comment. Besides that I don't want to be inhibited by grammar lessons from anyone, as I'm not overly worried about it on forums as long as my posts are understood.
However if it makes you feel good.....

Not sure you're commenting on the correct post.

Well said

 

[Karmady]

It's Myers, not Myer. If it's possessive, it's Myers'. She also means implies his chivalry in court, not infers. And as far as "something to be wonder about Pistorius mental state," yeah, that one's right, even though it wasn't expressed correctly. But I don't think asking someone "How can you sleep at night?" is engaging them in conversation, nor do I think it's in any way sinister. j/s

bbm

ITA. That whole sideshow is ridiculous, imo. In fact, I'd suggest that what he said to her was not only not sinister, but more likely indicative of innocence than the contrary. How would "how can you sleep at night" be anything other than an appeal to the conscience of the person it's directed at? Certainly not a threat in any way shape or form.

jmo

 

[Cherwell]

I get a sound like that too on some audio sites. It is the sound of a new 'text' on their live chat stream thingie?

It got me worried the other day - I thought something was wrong with my laptop! Turned out it was the live trial site - I'd forgotten to close the window after it finished and it was ominously clicking away in the background while I was working on something else. Was ages before I realised where it was coming from :doh:

 

[jay-jay]

During his testimony, Roger Dixon mentioned Wolmarans being with him during a number of tests. That's why I think Dixon felt himself qualified to make such ballistics claims as Reeva was angled toward, not facing, the door... her arm was outstretched toward the handle ... and iirc that she didn't fall onto the magazine rack because there was no blood on it. Wolmarans almost certainly watched Dixon, noted the derision of him afterwards, and tailored his testimony today to be much less specific than he'd originally intended imo. I'm waiting in anticipation for the "sounds" tests Wollie and Roger [and iirc also ballistics expert Jannie Van der Westhuizen] conducted together... especially the one out in the field with their wives along for the fun.

.. yes, that was all a bit odd, wasn't it .. and the bangs were probably more likely to be champagne corks popping, seeing as they seemed to have had a bit of a social 'do' :facepalm: