Trial Discussion Thread #35 - 14.05.08 Day 28

[crowmarsh]

Right. I use HPs in my .22 plinking rifle. does more damage to soda cans, so easier to see from a distance. =) When I had 9mm pistols (Glock 19, 17, and Walther PPS), I used FMJHP - full metal jacket hollow points. They're cleaner, they leave less residue to clean off the gun after use, and they seem to be more accurate than round-points.

As a defensive tool, a hollow-point makes a small entry hole and a large exit hole, provided it gets that far.

What is it with people and their guns MORE DAMAGE indeed play scrabble instead

 

[steveml]

Like another poster said, it is as if some people are watching a different trial!

And are still prepared to doggedly believe every word of OP's "version", despite the fact that he has been proven on numerous occasions to be a liar.

I'm quite fascinated by the mentality it takes to get to this point, and I know that OP's supporters will probably scream like a woman for my suggesting this, but I am wondering if there is not a tiny, subliminal element of misogyny involved in their thinking somewhere down the line...

On the contrary. It's a clear fact that some people are simply able to debate the case without feeling the need to identify perceived shortcomings of individuals from either side of the discussion.

 

[james83]

I really appreciated Hope4More's words. Compassion is the word I'd choose for what I feel for Reeva and her surviving family and friends. I think what I feel in that realm for Oscar is something more like empathy. It's not the only thing I feel in regard to him, but it's the one many would have a hard time connecting with.

Junebug, would you say its a fair assumption that even if we assume Oscar's story is true, his biggest concern seems to be working out how to avoid jail time rather than saying this is what I did punish me as you see fit, this is what really irks me about him.

 

[TorisMom003]

bbm

ITA. That whole sideshow is ridiculous, imo. In fact, I'd suggest that what he said to her was not only not sinister, but more likely indicative of innocence than the contrary. How would "how can you sleep at night" be anything other than an appeal to the conscience of the person it's directed at? Certainly not a threat in any way shape or form.

jmo

OP should have never said anything at all to Kim M. However he did, so any of the backlash because of it falls squarely on his shoulders. It appears that he lacks self control.

Why on earth should OP ask Kim "how can you sleep at night"? Kim is not the one that told police that OP was the killer. Kim is not the reason that OP was arrested, charged with murder and is currently on trial for murder along with the three gun/bullet charges. There is absolutely no reason, IMO, for OP to say anything to Kim concerning her conscience. OP should look inside himself and focus on his own conscience, however since he easily lies on the stand, one can say that he apparently has no conscience.

Like it or not this is a big deal because of OP himself. He had the option to keep his mouth shut. He decided not to. But of course, like OP himself, let's blame someone else for his wrong doing.

MOO

 

[TorisMom003]

Junebug, would you say its a fair assumption that even if we assume Oscar's story is true, his biggest concern seems to be working out how to avoid jail time rather than saying this is what I did punish me as you see fit, this is what really irks me about him.

Since OP claimed that the safe, not he, was in possession of the illegal 38 ammunition then I would have to agree. OP clearly is wanting NO jail time at all, no matter what he did wrong.

It's a shame no one taught him to take responsibility for his actions.

MOO

 

[Viper]

On the contrary. It's a clear fact that some people are simply able to debate the case without feeling the need to identify perceived shortcomings of individuals from either side of the discussion.

Name one. LOL!!!

 

[Cherwell]

Junebug, would you say its a fair assumption that even if we assume Oscar's story is true, his biggest concern seems to be working out how to avoid jail time rather than saying this is what I did punish me as you see fit, this is what really irks me about him.

I had been trying to compose a post, but James has just summed it up in two lines so I will just say

+1

 

[IfIMay]

Name one. LOL!!!

On the contrary. It's a clear fact that some people are simply able to debate the case without feeling the need to identify perceived shortcomings of individuals from either side of the discussion.

I'm sure everyone just speaks for themselves here. :floorlaugh:

 

[steveml]

I'm wondering about Lundrgen's description of Reeva as "pre-menopausal" as a factor that may have slowed down the stomach-digestion phase.
She was under 30 and therefore not pre-menopausal in layman's terms, but I see from Googling it that the term is sometimes used in medical contexts to deisgnate the whole period from onset of menstruation to the menopause. But on that definition, is it really true that female stomach digestion is significantly delayed for the whole of the period of thirty to forty years in which they are "pre-menstrual"? Is it not rather that stomach digestion is only significantly slowed down in the much shorter period when fertility really tails off - a stage which Reeva had not yet reached?

Yep, I think any connection regarding the difference in rate of digestion between pre/post menopausal is that small it can probably be disregarded.

I would also imagine that it's extremely difficult to analyse, as eating habits can change through a life cycle as well.

I think it shocked a few people in court at first when 'pre-menopausal' was mentioned. Although it could be perfectly possible, there were a few shocked faces, almost as if it was being suggested that Reeva was about to begin the menopause. Reeva's mother appeared to make comment at the time. If I had to make a guess, I'd presume she was saying something to the effect of 'Reeva wasn't going through the change' or similar.

 

[JuneBug67]

I'm wondering about Lundrgen's description of Reeva as "pre-menopausal" as a factor that may have slowed down the stomach-digestion phase.
She was under 30 and therefore not pre-menopausal in layman's terms, but I see from Googling it that the term is sometimes used in medical contexts to deisgnate the whole period from onset of menstruation to the menopause. But on that definition, is it really true that female stomach digestion is significantly delayed for the whole of the period of thirty to forty years in which they are "pre-menstrual"? Is it not rather that stomach digestion is only significantly slowed down in the much shorter period when fertility really tails off - a stage which Reeva had not yet reached?

She qualified with 'depending on where the woman is in her cycle'. So my impression was it was the long way around of saying that your stage of menstrual cycle can impact digestion. She didn't say I don't think what stage of the cycle that might be expected at, or how many days might be involved during the month.

 

[DebinGA]

OP should have never said anything at all to Kim M. However he did, so any of the backlash because of it falls squarely on his shoulders. It appears that he lacks self control.
MOO

RSBM
The Myers family dearly loved Reeva, as OP well knows. What kind of unfeeling, self-absorbed person would intentionally position himself so that Reeva's loved ones would have no choice but to be near their loved one's killer? [I pass them in the halls... I hold doors open for them ... and they won't make eye contact with me] Everyone may define "psycho" differently, but OP is without doubt a dangerous psycho to me.

 

[TorisMom003]

I'm wondering how many women she has asked pre op about their menstrual cycles. After all, if as she says, it can have that much affect on food digestion it would be a very important question so that the woman can be told to not eat anything more than the normally recommended 6 to 8 hours before a surgery.

 

[Hope4More]

I really appreciated Hope4More's words. Compassion is the word I'd choose for what I feel for Reeva and her surviving family and friends. I think what I feel in that realm for Oscar is something more like empathy. It's not the only thing I feel in regard to him, but it's the one many would have a hard time connecting with.

June... During the trial of Jodi Arias a certain long time poster who is incredibly well respected on WS dared to say that she felt empathy for JA. 99.9% of fellow posters disagreed and couldn't imagine how that empathy was possible. I was in that 99.9% .

Difference is, I --and many many others in that 99.9% --genuinely admired how huge her heart was to be able to transcend all the anger and disgust being voiced about JA and to see her a human being whose life might have been different if but.

Expressing that kind of empathy here takes guts.Bravo. Doesn't mean the poster I mention or likely you "supports" the killer, is trying to justify the killing, or is trying to minimize the lives taken.

 

[BritsKate]

I might be able to feel it for him if had taken ANY true responsibility for what he's done. He's still minimizing it to save his own skin. When he is finally truthful and humble in accepting his actions, then I will have some empathy or compassion. He's not there yet, so neither am I. He is all about himself and HIS loss, as the social worker said. He has no empathy for Reeva and has never said anything about what SHE lost.

I absolutely agree but on this note, just a little something I find so very sad is that, even through Oscar, we've learned so very little of the woman who was supposedly the love of his life. We know he got her birthday wrong, we know about the jealousy issues, we know she forgot to close the balcony doors and he wouldn't have shot her had she said something behind that door. Normally, its SOP for a defence to 'dehumanise' a victim but this defence has claimed they loved one another so one could presume it would be prudent to maybe tell us a bit about the woman he loved? Why he loved her? What she was like? I feel like I got to know Reeva better in a minute of Mike N's testimony than in 5 days of Oscar on the stand.

JMO


Please pardon errors as posted via Tapatalk with a less than stellar user.

 

[steveml]

What is it with people and their guns MORE DAMAGE indeed play scrabble instead

I'm not so sure about that.

Link

 

[BritsKate]

Up to now it seems it is on an advisory basis that he confers with previous State witnesses but precisely today he asked Masipa if he needed to in the furture could he bring a previous witness back and it appears he can but will have to apply to the court for permission on a case by case basis when the need arises.

Afaik, the reason he asked today is because its a defence witness he was seeking to recall. The same thing occurred with Roux and Vermeulen. If Nel motions the court to reopen the State's case and the court approves, he can recall Mangena, no special permission required. As the State's CIC has concluded, its unlikely their witnesses will be recalled unless there's a rebuttal.

JMO


Please pardon errors as posted via Tapatalk with a less than stellar user.

 

[TorisMom003]

I'm not so sure about that.

Link

From your link:

When Mr Tahau took exception to the way Hamiora was speaking to his friends, Hamiora held up a bullet and put a cigarette against it saying he was going to shoot a hole through the wall.

Hamiora got a silver aluminium baseball bat from his car and began bashing Mr Tahau. Kingi joined in, punching Mr Tahau.

At this stage Hamiora stabbed Mr Tahau in the back at least five times while Kingi continued to punch him and hit him with the bat.

So the accused started off the killing by threatening to shoot his gun and had a bullet in his hand.

 

[Hope4More]

I absolutely agree but on this note, just a little something I find so very sad is that, even through Oscar, we've learned so very little of the woman who was supposedly the love of his life. We know he got her birthday wrong, we know about the jealousy issues, we know she forgot to close the balcony doors and he wouldn't have shot her had she said something behind that door. Normally, its SOP for a defence to 'dehumanise' a victim but this defence has claimed they loved one another so one could presume it would be prudent to maybe tell us a bit about the woman he loved? Why he loved her? What she was like? I feel like I got to know Reeva better in a minute of Mike N's testimony than in 5 days of Oscar on the stand.

JMO


Please pardon errors as posted via Tapatalk with a less than stellar user.

Yes. The saddest thing about every trial, IMO, is that the victim is reduced to just that...a voiceless victim who can be attacked by the defense or be presented in the single dimension of who he or she was in relationship to the person on trial. It hurts to imagine how the family and friends of any victim must feel sitting in court having to listen to versions of a loved one that are untrue or distorted in their simplicity.

 

[steveml]

June... During the trial of Jodi Arias a certain long time poster who is incredibly well respected on WS dared to say that she felt empathy for JA. 99.9% of fellow posters disagreed and couldn't imagine how that empathy was possible. I was in that 99.9% .

Difference is, I --and many many others in that 99.9% --genuinely admired how huge her heart was to be able to transcend all the anger and disgust being voiced about JA and to see her a human being whose life might have been different if but.

Expressing that kind of empathy here takes guts.Bravo. Doesn't mean the poster I mention or likely you "supports" the killer, is trying to justify the killing, or is trying to minimize the lives taken.

That's a very good point. I think those that offer forgiveness when a crime has been committed against them must have a strong ability to show empathy - I guess you need this before you can reconcile forgiveness.

It's probably not one of my strongest qualities unfortunately.

 

[TorisMom003]

Oldwage was not in court yet again today?