Trial Discussion Thread #35 - 14.05.08 Day 28

[steveml]

I don't know about misogyny, but I suspect that some of his supporters find him attractive. If he was as ugly as sin, it might be a different matter. I think we've seen this in plenty of other cases.

Objection your honor. :judge:

As the majority of us don't feel that OP is innocent of killing Reeva, it's a tad misleading to refer to us as supporters. We are at best, partial-supporters.

Can I also take this opportunity to say that my attraction has always remained towards members of the opposite sex. If I did turn, I still don't think he'd be my type.

 

[lisasalinger]

Hi all :seeya: Super busy week, so I'm just now getting caught up on Tues & Thurs testimony. The whole Frank thing is really bothering me.

I pulled this quote from Sleuth-d over from the last thread:

baba didn't ever mention frank out at the front of the building either. although he did mention being outside with a second security guard [in the buggy].

having said that, baba also said there were five people at the front of the house after the standers got out of the car...

baba
second security guard

j stander
carise stander

??? frank ???

all very unclear/inconclusive.

I could never figure out how Baba came up with 5 people outside of the house either!! Now it makes sense. It must have been Frank.

Every single person that testified (and Roux and Nel), up until the Standers, completely left Frank out of the story. WHY?

A few times during Oscar's testimony, Nel confirmed that Oscar and Reeva were the only two people in the house that night. There was never any question about that.

For Frank to be on the property prior to the Standers arriving, he MUST have been there that night. So where exactly was he during the time of the incident??

This is going to make me nuts now.

 

[patCee]

That may be, but it was an act of desperation by the DT to actually put her on the stand, IMO. To think that the millions of dollars that Ozzie has paid to produce his defense has whithered down to a last minute shot in the dark by bringing this obvious #Pistorian in to court to say he felt sorry for himself after he murdered Reeva, its astonishing!

I would put them dragging in an anesthesiologist in that same category. Why bring her in at this point if it wasn't for the fact that their first expert, Professor Botha, failed miserably.

I for one am getting tired of the DT experts and other witnesses. It was described that Roux and Oldwage were the best in SA and the State had a difficult circumstantial case on their hands. Both of those things have proven out to be false or far from the mark.

To go from claiming that the DT will show that the first shot was to Reeva's head to now showing that it is impossible to say what the order of the shots hitting Reeva is and it is impossible to say where Reeva was at during any of the shots is just very disappointing to say the least.

Oldwage was busy today outside of the court tracking down new gastric emptying witnesses and interviewing #Pistorian(s) that have called to volunteer to testify on OPs behalf. As well as monitoring Dixon's ongoing experiments.

You managed to be funny :floorlaugh: and serious :facepalm: at the same time. I do agree with you though re the DT, it's been embarrassingly weak, desperate even. I have a mental picture of Oldwage visiting local hospitals with a placard saying 'wanted, gastric expert, no experience necessary' or Silverwoods 'man who can scream like a woman'.

 

[aoibhinn]

Good evening all. Many thanks again for the transcriptions and insights, I've just finished reading through the thread. Seems I didn't miss too much. I'll be able to follow live tomorrow!

A few posts that I've picked up on ....

She qualified with 'depending on where the woman is in her cycle'. So my impression was it was the long way around of saying that your stage of menstrual cycle can impact digestion. She didn't say I don't think what stage of the cycle that might be expected at, or how many days might be involved during the month.

There's a link here that gives some insight. It's at that particular time of the month the problem occurs and normally only lasts for a few days. What the anesthesiologist implied was meaningless without knowing what stage of her cycle Reeva was experiencing. Further reading at the link:

http://www.fitsugar.com/What-Causes-Digestive-Issues-During-Menstrual-Period-10285114

I hope that's not inappropriate or TMI. It's biology, so hopefully OK to mention.

N: You felt sorry for the accused?

IS: After 24 years of experience...I felt empathy for the accused...it is different.

From what I gather, this lady was his probation officer/social worker and not his psychologist? If so, the probation officer is normally supportive of the candidate, not an unbiased expert as a psychological expert would ideally be.

re : the BBM part:-

Therefore, as a professional detached party she should not declare empathy for the accused but should be strictly concerned with his welfare. Indeed, a successful therapist should feel empathy but should maintain a detached professionalism. This testimony has the appearance of yet another character witness for OP.

As Minor4th pointed out, Neil did bring up OP's emotions earlier in the trial and it was fitting for Defence to address them, but it seems to me that this was an inappropriate defence response and less than professional.

 

[aoibhinn]

I'm not so sure about that.

Link

I shouldn't be smiling. But I am ....

 

[Gryffindor]

Where's Rumpole?

In hiding?

 

[steveml]

Excellent how did you find that link so quickly

Cheers,

Just did a quick search out of interest. I'd like to say that I have something ready for every scenario, but I get sworn in before I post on WS so it's the whole truth or nothing.

Mistakes are allowed of course. :smile:

 

[Viper]

Yep, that's the pistol OP used. Very little difference between a 9mm Parabellum, a Luger and a Glock. The parabellum was designed by the Luger company.

The Glock 17 is known as the original parabellum.

As the Black Talon discussion may have been irrelevant due to the possibility that one of the ballistics experts didn't identify the bullets correctly, I'm not going to indicate what the name 'parabellum' means as this would probably introduce a whole new line of speculation.

BIB. I think that you may be misunderstanding what you are reading on the Internet. The Glock 17 was the "original 9mm parabellum" manufactured by Glock, meaning it was the first model made by Glock. It is not the first 9mm parabellum handgun. The first 9mm parabellum round was invented over a century ago; the Glock company did not start up until the 80s or 90s.

Whether a bullet cartridge is called a 9mm parabellum, 9mm Lugar, 9mm NATO or a 9mm 9X19, they are still all the same size bullet cartridges, it is only the name that is different. Some military rounds have internal changes.

The Ranger bullets that OP had did have a black coating and it appears that they were nicknamed Black Talon in SA.

 

[Gryffindor]

Objection your honor. :judge:

As the majority of us don't feel that OP is innocent of killing Reeva, it's a tad misleading to refer to us as supporters. We are at best, partial-supporters.

Can I also take this opportunity to say that my attraction has always remained towards members of the opposite sex. If I did turn, I still don't think he'd be my type.

Objection upheld and seconded

 

[TorisMom003]

Objection your honor. :judge:

As the majority of us don't feel that OP is innocent of killing Reeva, it's a tad misleading to refer to us as supporters. We are at best, partial-supporters.

Can I also take this opportunity to say that my attraction has always remained towards members of the opposite sex. If I did turn, I still don't think he'd be my type.

Isn't it well known that this is not the only forum where the case against OP is being discussed? So then how is it known that Cherwell was referring to anyone here? After all, the word misogynist does mean the dislike, hate, etc of women. Cherwell was also referring to some women that behaved like misogynistic men towards Reeva. Now I have not seen any posts of that manner towards Reeva here on WS. However, I have seen those type of posts in other places out on the web. And the vast majority of those posts are the type that believe OP is innocent.

MOO

 

[steveml]

Where's Rumpole?

In hiding?

Not heard from him for a while.

He may have taken a very extended tea break at the same time as court took theirs.

I'm sure he was doing some website work last time I heard.

 

[Gryffindor]

Cheers,

Just did a quick search out of interest. I'd like to say that I have something ready for every scenario, but I get sworn in before I post on WS so it's the whole truth or nothing.

Mistakes are allowed of course. :smile:

Steve, you're on fire tonight ;-)

*Not literally or well done on the multi-taking front

 

[turaj]

Thurs. May 8th witnesses are a joke....defense seems to not have a case...no wonder he is punting with witnesses....he has nothing.

 

[Skyalwaysblue]

Mr Levine, just a small comment. You may be excellent at English and grammar but it does not go down well on this board for people's comments to have holes picked in them unless it changes the meaning of the sentence.

I found your comment funny but many do not. Many members are not native English speakers and I know we shall be very interested in your impressions of the court proceedings but not so much in your need to correct everyone's grammar.

I have just joined this forum and I was hesitant to make a contribution as the Mr Levines' of the world (Levine's) always in background.:banghead:

 

[Cymbaline]

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Trial Discussion Thread #34 - 14.05.06 Day 27


Yes. I am saying there were more than 4 shots.
We have 4 shots in the bathroom door. We have 1 shot in the bedroom door.

4 + 1='s 5

5 is more than 4 isn't it?

Dr Stipp said he had trained in the army with assault rifles and 9 mm pistols.
Dr Stipp heard 2 SETS of gunshots. The other neighbors that testified were all in agreement that it was 2 sets of gunshots. The last set of gunshots were described as...
bang....bang,bang,bang.


Oscar says cricket bat. Oscar didn't mention that damaged metal plate in the bathroom. In my opinion, it is because hitting metal and wood are different sounds. What about the bullet hole in the bedroom door? He admits damaging the bedroom door by running into it on his way back to the bedroom. I guess he didn't notice the bullet hole. But, that's not Oscar's fault. That door probably shot itself. Doors in Oscar's house behave strangely.

That is my opinion.

Our thoughts about what happened that night are different and I respect your opinion.


I hope you have a wonderful day.


JMO

 

[AlwaysShocked]

It seems the terms pre-menopausal and pre-menstrual are being mixed up. They are teo entirely different things.

Pyloric valve relaxation after death: The same process that relaxes bowel and bladder sphincters would relax other sphincters within the body. They are muscle groups that function in a certain way in life - whether voluntarily or involuntarily. None would function after death.

Re: Digestion continuing after death. Think of the stomach itself as a vessel. The contents of the stomach are in the vessel, along with acids produced by the stomach wall. Death would stop the production of acid. But whatever is in the stomach would theoretically still be exposed to the stomach acids, so would continue to "digest".

"Real" digestion takes place, however, AFTER the stomach. In the duodenum where the actual "digestive enzymes" enter the system. Sphincter of Oddi.

I'm sure Nels was loving it every time the witness said "I am not a pathologist". I noticed that he kept on asking her questions that were guaranteed to elicit that response from her!

 

[Viper]

With OP's to-ing and frow-ing you can ascertain OP's position by the casings ? From my research studies demonstrate that positioning a shooter by spent casing is extremely unreliable, and that's without factoring in that Mangena refused to draw conclusions from the casing positions precisely because, according to him, they could have been "kicked around".

BIB. You seemed to have overlooked my prior post regarding that discussion. The casings are indicative of where OP was, one was ejected out of the bathroom and in to the carpeted hallway, the other three were ejected in to the bathroom. But the trajectory rods show that he was moving from left to right as he fired. He could not do that if he was standing in just one spot at the tiled entry point of the bathroom, on his stumps while holding himself up against the wall with his left hand.

Mangena had no idea what OP would describe about how he murdered Reeva. I'm hopeful that Nel will question W about this. And or alternatively Mangena will be recalled if the State reopens its case.

 

[Karmady]

Can you explain what you mean. OP is appealing to the conscience of GM. I dont understand

Sure, I can try. But first, I think it's KM, not GM, correct?

When you ask someone how they can sleep at night, you're saying that their guilty conscience should be keeping them awake but is not. Just for example, if you said to your friend who was cheating on her husband, "I don't know how you sleep at night," you would be saying "how can you live with yourself knowing what you're doing behind his back and not be so overcome with guilt that you lay awake at night thinking about it."

Here, Oscar's comment suggests that KM has guilty knowledge that should be keeping her awake at night. Presumably, it would have something to do with his guilt or innocence.

jmo

 

[Interested Bystander]

I have just joined this forum and I was hesitant to make a contribution as the Mr Levines' of the world (Levine's) always in background.:banghead:

Do join in. I find almost everyone very kindly here.

 

[toevlugsoord]

In case anyone is interested, I found the name of OP's psychologist by Googling what I heard the social worker say:
Lore Hartzenberg