Trial Discussion Thread #36 - 14.05.09 Day 29

[Suthrnqt]

Nel is not going to get the notes/reports whatever they are, that are on W's computer at home. Or maybe some notes, from November 8th. And definitely he can have the photos from then....

 

[jay-jay]

Nel is not going to get the notes/reports whatever they are, that are on W's computer at home. Or maybe some notes, from November 8th. And definitely he can have the photos from then....

I cannot believe this guy did not bring his computer along with him ..

 

[zwiebel]

W did not ask what ammo had being used in the killing. Prof S even asked him if Black Talon was prohibited.

Then, after he saw the jackets, he established it was Ranger and not BT. "I went on the internet...and contacted an American expert, Jason...'

Nel says another expert maintains it is BT.

W insists the weights he has worked out, BT was never made in those weights.

 

[G.bng]

I do not understand the importance of this argument. There were 4 shots, 3 hit Reeva, she could have died from three of them but the head shot killed her quickly. Why are they arguing about a mark on her back? Is Nel being a bit too stubborn here?

The important information is the sequence of the shots, ie bang.....bang,bang,bang. or bang,bang,bang,bang and Mangena explained very clearly why it was bang....bang.bang.bang.

I agree except that in the end both Mangena's and Wolmaran's are only opinions not fact, and all the defence needs to do is to give a different reasonable possibility of how the events took place, which imho they have done, even explaining a few points Mangena's theory obviated such as the wood splinters in the arm wound which from W's testimony and research it seems extremely unlikely that wood splinters would carry over to the arm wound but not to the head wound therefore I consider the defence theory of the arm being nearer the door has more weight here... that said that is for Masipa to decide anyway, so who knows.

Also after listening to the first part of Mangena's testimony last night (I am going to listen to the rest to day and try to transcribe it over the weekend as I feel the ballistics are going to be really important to Masipa finding murder or CH) two things struck me so far:

1. Mangena didn't actually conclude the order of the last two shots, i.e. arm and head in fact he said he didn't know
2. Mangena did not introduce the "bang...bang,bang,bang" as a part of his theory rather as far as I got into listening he took it up on Nel's prompting​

IMO

 

[soozieqtips]

I cannot believe this guy did not bring his computer along with him ..

The defence witnesses all seem totally disorganised. It's embarrassing to watch. Why do they leave files and photos on their computers instead of printing stuff off to bring into court?

 

[zwiebel]

W got the bullet from Cpt M. Cpt M says BT was made in weights of 127gm, Nel says.

W says if Cpt M says it was made in those weights, he'll concede.

 

[zwiebel]

W: Black Talon is very, very scarce...I had to turn someone's arm...

(He used that exact phrase yesterday, Lol. I recall because I've only ever heard of 'twist someone's arm').

 

[zwiebel]

Nel arguing that if paper had been used for dispersment tests instead of board, it would have given a better indication of how that bullet dispersment would have acted on skin.

W: I cannot disagree with it.

 

[zwiebel]

Dispersement? Dispersment?

Sorry about the spelling.

 

[zwiebel]

There was a very small dispersement on Reeva's forearm, W says.

They are looking at photos of the wound. They are not being shown to us.

 

[G.bng]

W: Black Talon is very, very scarce...I had to turn someone's arm...

(He used that exact phrase yesterday, Lol. I recall because I've only ever heard of 'twist someone's arm').

Yeah, it is "twist" but maybe the refrain uses "turn" in Africaans and he's unconsciously translating... I often do the same from Spanish to English.

 

[zwiebel]

Nel just got witness to concede that Reeva's arm might have to have been further away from than door than he said?

But he said she was between 6 and 60cm away and Nel just said so maybe she was 55cm away?

Sooooo confusing...

 

[rachael123]

Whoa he is backing down.

 

[jay-jay]

The defence witnesses all seem totally disorganised. It's embarrassing to watch. Why do they leave files and photos on their computers instead of printing stuff off to bring into court?

.. and to think, this is the Dream Team they talk about in that link K.T. provided upthread :facepalm::floorlaugh:

 

[Suthrnqt]

The defence witnesses all seem totally disorganised. It's embarrassing to watch. Why do they leave files and photos on their computers instead of printing stuff off to bring into court?

I know, right? How does an expert not have photos & reports (nicely typed, I might add) to back up the opinions being presented to the court? :dunno:

 

[zwiebel]

Oh, that was sweet. Nel called him Cptn and he's been out of the police for ages. They know each other well, it seems....

 

[aoibhinn]

Looks like I left my computer on all night :/

Anyhow I will answer a few questions posed to me from the other thread and then I am off for the day.
I don’t think we can say that we need video proof that Kim is a liar to reasonably be able to question the validity of her claim. I don’t know if Oscar said anything, I don’t know if he did say something he was not talking to himself. I think regardless of what happened if Oscar leaned in toward her Kim would have had a visceral reaction, she by all accounts believes Oscar hunted down Reeva.

Hi Lithow1, as to my defense of Oscar’s mistaken intruder story possibly being true it is not based in emotion but in the evidence presented and in Oscar’s consistently sticking to his story in spite of the extreme tactics used by Nel and Oscar’s obvious emotional immaturity. It is also much more natural to have an emotional response of support for the victim so it would be unusual to be basing my conclusions on emotion in this case in favor of the living breathing, handsome millionaire, who shot his girlfriend to death as opposed to Reeva whose life was cut short at Oscar’s hand.

And I was asked this

Just a quick question if I may - do you believe, based on what you've read or heard, that OP said something to her? Doesn't matter what, just that he leaned in and appeared to say something that caused her to react? Thanks.

I don’t know. I think Oscar has been vilified to the point that his every movement and word is scrutinized to the tenth degree and that people find guilt and fault in almost everything he does and says.


And I am running late, have a good day folks.

BBM

Just because .... :facepalm:

 

[patCee]

Glad the splinters came up, I never felt confident re use of board.

To be honest I believe this is all over.

So unpleasant to see the expert demolished after a distinguished career, but he set himself up for this. It's hard to take in some of the blatant incompetence. Should have known better.

There's sharp brains re Nel and team.

 

[zwiebel]

Mama Mia!

Witness wants to show how Reeva could have been sitting on mag rack, asks if he can, then says he can't get that low...

Then says he doesn't think she was sitting there anyway, which disappoints Nel who thought he had got a concession there (he was smiling and nodding encouragingly).

 

[G.bng]

Curious habit Nel has. He is always going to "deal with that", "get back to that", "cover that"... but very often the matters have been out paced by others during and nothing more is said of them.