Trial Discussion Thread #38 - 14.05.13 Day 31

[BritsKate]

What does that mean."reopens"

SA calls the State's rebuttal 'reopening'. They need to motion the court for permission to reopen, in order to rebut the defence CIC (case in chief).

 

[soozieqtips]

Lipstick on a pig! Don't know that that's necessarily Southern though, my Northern mama has been saying it since I was a little girl.

Hello fellow Southerner! (Georgian?) :seeya:

You can't polish a turd :smile:

 

[Viper]

~rsbm to save space~

Good points, Viper. I just can't reconcile OP on stumps walking back and forth twice through the floor area pictured below, in pitch darkness, feeling the curtains with one hand and holding the cocked gun with the other:

http://cdn.all4women.co.za/var/all4...n/1797099-1-eng-GB/bedroom-and-fan_web250.jpg

And I can't imagine OP the narcissist having a prolonged argument with Reeva on his stumps.

BIB1 I didn't say that he did all of that on his stumps, and I don't believe that he did. I believe that after he killed Reeva he simply made one trip to put on his legs. Whatever else he did after that IDK.

BIB2 Reeva was locked in the WC, so he was at no disadvantage in height. And the more I think about his freaky mind, the more it seems likely that on his stumps he would be more inclined to use a gun because he would feel even more inadequate during an argument.

But I'm just speculating.

 

[lithgow1]

SA calls the State's rebuttal 'reopening'. They need to motion the court for permission to reopen, in order to rebut the defence CIC (case in chief).

Well thanks BritsKate for making the last sentence of my last post so glaringly true. Curses!

 

[Viper]

You can't polish a turd :smile:

"You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar." Be sweet... :smile:

 

[BritsKate]

Someone can probably explain it better but my understanding is that now the defence has opened the door on a possible psych disorder that could be used as a factor in the court's decision on degree of guilt and as mitigation during sentencing Nel can argue to be allowed to put his own psych expert on the stand. One of the police's psych experts was in court during all of OP's testiminy and cross-examination and I guess it would be him.

A couple of lawyers on here predicted weeks ago that this could happen (the re-open if defence brought in psych factors) and it would basically be a given that this would be approved. Hope this is still the case - in fact you would think it more likely if the defence have introduced this element. Personally I'd prefer that as I'd love to hear what the state's guy has to say about Mr P. And now, after all that, someone has probably answered your question in one sentence!

LOL. Someone did but it doesn't make you less right. The only thing is, just by the defence putting a psych up there at all, regardless of how damaging her testimony was, it probably still gave the State grounds to reopen their case - if there weren't grounds before - and I would argue there quite possibly were because of all the to'ing and fro'ing this case has generated.

 

[patCee]

http://www.health24.com/columnists/oscar-trial-the-shrink-has-shrunk-20140513

Re Dr. Vorster: "The Shrink Has Shrunk"

Professor MA Simpson is Health24's CyberShrink. A South African psychiatrist, he qualified in medicine and in psychiatry in Britain. He has been a senior academic, researcher, and Professor in several countrie

Good article, but must share the piece that made me LOL.

I think she said she had not discussed how he felt about the trial or the prospect of prison. Isn’t this rather like the person who asked his wife, after President Lincoln had been assassinated in Ford’s Theatre, “Apart from that, Mrs Lincoln, how was the play?“

 

[Zim]

BIB1 I didn't say that he did all of that on his stumps, and I don't believe that he did. I believe that after he killed Reeva he simply made one trip to put on his legs. Whatever else he did after that IDK.

BIB2 Reeva was locked in the WC, so he was at no disadvantage in height. And the more I think about his freaky mind, the more it seems likely that on his stumps he would be more inclined to use a gun because he would feel even more inadequate during an argument.

But I'm just speculating.

I have often wondered about the fact that the door was locked. We only have OP's word that this was the case. The whole cricket bashing could have been for effect.....just sayin'....

 

[aoibhinn]

Thank you everyone for the transcriptions, insights, details and links. :seeya:

I missed the live run but I really need to go and watch the end of today's proceedings! Nel vs Roux! Sounds like Roux had a near apoplectic fit.

Seems Dr. V. contradicted, retracted or minimized a lot of what she said yesterday. Nel got a whole pile of wins from a defence witness, once again. It's his signature move

Deb I'm not trying to open a can of worms with this post. :worms:

But I have been thinking lately about the legs on legs off thing, and two things support legs off:

1). Batman's investigation results regarding the placement of the two bat strike marks.

2). The fact that OP was moving left to right as he fired each of the four bullets. That in itself shows him moving to get a better aim at his target, Reeva. But it could also indicate that he was wobbling to his right as he was taking aim and shooting each shot.

I don't know. It is just something that crossed my mind.

~rsbm to save space~

Good points, Viper. I just can't reconcile OP on stumps walking back and forth twice through the floor area pictured below, in pitch darkness, feeling the curtains with one hand and holding the cocked gun with the other:

http://cdn.all4women.co.za/var/all4...n/1797099-1-eng-GB/bedroom-and-fan_web250.jpg

BBMs : Me too. I do believe that he was on his stumps and I've thought it ever since the demonstration showing the batstrikes and their location.

Re : Ops feelings of vulnerability due to his disability:-
IMO, the defence is milking this. He would most likely have felt more imposing on his stumps, but he can't remember a time when he had lower limbs because the defect was congenital. His physical condition was his 'normal' and he would have adapted. Far better than someone who had suffered a loss of limbs in later life. I doubt he would feel anywhere near as vulnerable as someone who became an amputee and had to relearn and habituate.

Of course, I mean no offence to anyone who is an amputee, nor am I minimizing it's physical or psychological effects. I'm just drawing a comparison.

 

[lithgow1]

LOL. Someone did but it doesn't make you less right. The only thing is, just by the defence putting a psych up there at all, regardless of how damaging her testimony was, it probably still gave the State grounds to reopen their case - if there weren't grounds before - and I would argue there quite possibly were because of all the to'ing and fro'ing this case has generated.

Think you are right - I heard one pundit saying (before all this right-old carry-on) that there would probably be grounds to get Mangena back on the stand because of the defence not putting their version to him when he was testifying along with a couple of other factors that I can't recall. Plus there was one other line of questioning (to do with the Standers I think) that could also be grounds.

 

[BritsKate]

http://www.health24.com/columnists/oscar-trial-the-shrink-has-shrunk-20140513

Re Dr. Vorster: "The Shrink Has Shrunk"

Professor MA Simpson is Health24's CyberShrink. A South African psychiatrist, he qualified in medicine and in psychiatry in Britain. He has been a senior academic, researcher, and Professor in several countrie

All I have to say is you gotta love any news organisation who boasts a headline like this: "We’ve been punked. The Oscar trial gets truly ridiculous."

 

[Interested Bystander]

https://soundcloud.com/primediabroadcasting/am-court-proceedings-20140324

There was some serious discussion between Nel and Roux before the start of this day's proceedings and this recording covers the missing bit on YouTube referred to elsewhere. It also covers the admission of the missing iPhione into evidence.

Thank you so much for supplying your link. As you say (and given the intonation in the sentence) I absolutely agree that the Blackberries were found in the bedroom. Thank you once again.

 

[Viper]

LOL. Someone did but it doesn't make you less right. The only thing is, just by the defence putting a psych up there at all, regardless of how damaging her testimony was, it probably still gave the State grounds to reopen their case - if there weren't grounds before - and I would argue there quite possibly were because of all the to'ing and fro'ing this case has generated.

Let's say the State reopens their case, psych is open for sure, but what other areas? I'm hopeful ballistics will be one, but I am not certain that it is needed. So if you consider not what the State can address, but what they can address and need to readdress, what would those things be?

 

[jay-jay]

I haven't really got into the issue of it all being a ruse, (although the legalese is) but this one I could go with as a way of Roux hedging his bets, for OP.

A 'Roux Ruse' :floorlaugh:

 

[AlexUK]

If Judge Masipa grants the referral can DT appeal against this decision? Also, what happens about OP's bail? Is it rescinded immediately and does he then have to apply again after the 30 days?

 

[lithgow1]

Everyone probably knows this site but it always has good round-ups of the day in court, occassional analysis, good running blog when court's in session etc.

http://www.news24.com/search?q=pistorius

just realised this is same site as DebinGa's Shrink has Shrunk link. Redundant again!!

 

[Murphys_Law]

http://www.health24.com/columnists/oscar-trial-the-shrink-has-shrunk-20140513

Re Dr. Vorster: "The Shrink Has Shrunk"

Professor MA Simpson is Health24's CyberShrink. A South African psychiatrist, he qualified in medicine and in psychiatry in Britain. He has been a senior academic, researcher, and Professor in several countrie

Thanks!

Also in that same e-zine was an article entitled:
Did Reeva Look Like Oscar's Mother?

http://www.health24.com/Mental-Health/News/Did-Reeva-look-like-Oscars-mother-20140414

The resemblance was quite shocking, I must say.

 

[DebinGA]

BIB1 I didn't say that he did all of that on his stumps, and I don't believe that he did. I believe that after he killed Reeva he simply made one trip to put on his legs. Whatever else he did after that IDK..

~rsbm to save space~

Thanks for your response, Viper. My hope is that m'lady will plainly see from the bedside pic that OP lied about all that post-murder running around he claims he did on his stumps, and that she'll believe the Stipps about the bathroom light being ON when OP swore it wasn't, and then she'll reject OP's lying version/s and send him to the pokey for a very long time.

 

[aoibhinn]

http://www.health24.com/columnists/oscar-trial-the-shrink-has-shrunk-20140513

Re Dr. Vorster: "The Shrink Has Shrunk"

Professor MA Simpson is Health24's CyberShrink. A South African psychiatrist, he qualified in medicine and in psychiatry in Britain. He has been a senior academic, researcher, and Professor in several countrie

Great link! Really good summary of the main points.

 

[jay-jay]

I have often wondered about the fact that the door was locked. We only have OP's word that this was the case. The whole cricket bashing could have been for effect.....just sayin'....

BIB Totally agree, I've been saying that all along .. :seeya: (agree with the cricket bat bashing just being for effect, too)