Trial Discussion Thread #45 - 14.07.3, Day 36

[44ALLAN]

The guy is nuts (or the DT are for allowing him to) giving evidence on behalf of OP .. he's going to be the nail in his coffin .. :scared: .. what he is saying is 'premeditated' (in OP's intruder version) :facepalm:


Great for the PT though :-D

gotta hand it to Gerry though..........he's the business alright

 

[zwiebel]

D: I can't remember what his response was to second sound. That's it. I need the record. I know he turned towards the toilet door...

N: He turned towards the danger?.....you couldn't recall a moment ago, and now you remember?

Nel says he is trying to 'fit' his testimony to the facts.

 

[kaos]

LOL @ Nel, I was just about to post that he couldn't remember looking at the window a minute ago.

 

[jay-jay]

"The day before he shot Reeva Steen*kamp, Seirlis said, Pistorius phoned him for help with the paperwork that would allow him to import a Maclaren sports car without paying the usual duty (which is waived for vehicles modified for use by disabled people). But now Seirlis uses phrases such as "scraping the bottom of the barrel" about Pistorius.

"We feel he has downgraded the view that people have of us in order to try and get himself some leeway with the judge and the assessors," Seirlis said.

The fact is that Oscar became famous because he is well built, because he is strong, for no other reason," Seirlis said. "When you become famous for that, you can't revert to vulnerability again when it suits you."

http://mg.co.za/article/2014-04-10-oscar-pistorius-tests-new-limits-of-disability

Interesting, thank you for this.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I'm feeling for Roux. Surely he is thinking how hard is it to have one non debarcle of a witness. Just one!

Is OP still laughing or has it gone?

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Finally the witness admits he wasn't there, :facepalm: could have fooled me.

 

[kaos]

Oh Jeez Professor! Even I know not to use the word evidently if it clearly hasn't been proved.

 

[zwiebel]

D: (when asked about the 3rd noise) Evidently there was a third nose from rack-

Nel pounces. 'Evidently? Evidently?'

Lights just went out. Nel says its a msg they should go home. Judge says no. 10 more mins.

 

[jay-jay]

This really does need to be cleared up by the prosecution. My understanding is that back in March-- around March 18-19th (day 12 or 13)-- Nel accepted Mangena's findings about the more probable firing position with Oscar on his stumps holding the gun with both arms raised out in front of him at eye level, but Nel also asked him to acknowledge it was still possible that Oscar fired from his prosthetics with arm bent at his side-- which was Mangena's second scenario for another possible firing position for the bullet trajectories they measured with the laser.

However, nearly a month later (!) Oscar testified on April 14th (sometime around 1:12pm-- sorry, will provide links later when not on my mobile) that he fired with one hand on the gun with elbow bent and the gun at his side. Oscar said he was bracing himself with the other hand.

So, I don't know how else to interpret this-- if he fired with his arm down at his side with elbow bent, then the only bullet trajectories that line up according to Mangena's ballistics testimony a month earlier would be if Oscar were on his prosthetics.

It always seemed to me that many people grabbed the media headline that "Oscar shot from his stumps!" without reading the entire ballistics testimony about probable and possible firing positions. Oscar's own statement would IMHO, indicate this would not fit with the ballistics evidence. Can anyone help with other evidence to the contrary?

:goodpost:

 

[rachael123]

LOL @ Nel, I was just about to post that he couldn't remember looking at the window a minute ago.

Gotta love Nel.Nailing him.

 

[zwiebel]

D:..because that was what Mr P informed me-that it was mag rack..

N: He has never given you a different version?

D: No.

N: Are you sure? Asking because you don't look sure.

Witness says he is sure, but doesn't sound it...

 

[Jake18]

I'm feeling for Roux. Surely he is thinking how hard is it to have one non debarcle of a witness. Just one!

I was just thinking that! This doctor's ego is such that he doesn't realise that his testimony isn't helping OP at all - it's as though he thinks the court is enraptured and in awe of his learned insights.

And really, a series of exaggerated startles resulted in a murder?

 

[zwiebel]

D: I don't know the record...I don't know...I wasn't there - Milady, I can't answer.

N: What are you reading?

D: I'm just looking down.

Witness agrees that OP 'fired at the sound'.

N: Why?

 

[kaos]

Did Nel ever get the date when he first spoke to OP in chambers?

 

[zwiebel]

D: I can't answer that question. It was his FF response.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Lights are flashing in courtroom, Nel says it must be time to go home, lol, Judge Masipa says, no another 5 or 10 minutes.


Witness sounds forlorn, Nel what have you done?

 

[zwiebel]

D: He fired at the sound and I'm sure it was to nullify any danger.

Nel wants break and asks for postponement to consult a psychiatrist (for the case. Don't think D has got to him that bad)

 

[zwiebel]

Oldwage wants to know which psych it is. Name.

 

[zwiebel]

Whaat? Judge doesn't understand it will be state psych and not one of defense ones!

 

[kaos]

Nel is putting the state psychiatrist on the stand.

I can see Oldwage having more than a few questions when he jumps up to clarify some of the Professor's CE.

E.T.A Nel now said he doesn't know if she'll be going on the stand but he has to talk to her for hours beforehand.