Trial Discussion Thread #48

[Deleted member 102539]

A couple of media reports on his trial testimony said that OP found her phone in the toilet bowl and pulled it out... yuk... in order to use it to call for help. Why would he do such a repulsive thing when he had several phones of his own to use ???

It makes no sense to me whatsoever... which leaves me suspecting this is just another 'n bull story of his to explain something away (like all that nonsense about having to "cover the blue light")... but what was it he hoped to "explain away" by making a big deal out of having tried to use RS's phone!?!

In OP's mind no one should have been able to say, it would have be important for him to control something on Reeva's phone. That would have pointed to dispute and argument and fight. Therefore his explanation, he wanted to do an emergency call. IMO
No normal human being wants to hold a cell phone to his ear, fished out of a wet bloody toilet bowl. IMO :sick:

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I think the meeting must have been to do with the assault case - I've discovered that the case was due to be heard in just one week's time, ie on 20 February 2013.

I imagine Taylor-Memmory had just rejected OP's settlement proposal. IMO, OP must have convinced Reeva that he did nothing wrong - hence, she was sympathising and trying to console him. He probably told her that TM had rejected his offer and that she'd got him over a barrel, as, although he was innocent of any wrongdoing, he'd be forced to increase his offer if he wanted to settle the matter out of Court in order to preserve his reputation and sponsorships. He was painting himself as the victim and TM as a female on the make, trying to take advantage of his celebrity status.

http://mg.co.za/article/2013-02-01-00-prior-assault-claim-stalks-oscar-pistorius

:thumb:

 

[AJ_DS]

SBM

Let's be careful not to post opinion as fact. If one does not state "I think, I believe, IIRC, IMO, MOO" etc. it would be helpful if a link was provided as a resource since it implies you're stating a fact.

Fingerprint experts were indeed at the crime scene.

At 1:00:30 Lt Colonel Van Rensburg testified that after he arrived at the scene he called for medical officers, fingerprint experts, police photographers, forensics officers, and the mortuary. http://youtube.com/watch?v=-L668jFUvGY

At 32:00 Officer Van Staden testified that the fingerprint experts are who made OP's gun safe since he left it cocked and ready to fire. http://youtube.com/watch?v=ovA-k3pO3Dk

BiB… Yes… but Lt Colonel Van Rensburg testified that when he arrived he had no idea what had transpired…

… he focused on the open bathroom window as it could be a possible entry point or escape route…

… he asked if OP and Reeva were alone in the house…

… he stated he was not an expert in murder crime scenes…

… he stated he was the police station commander, i.e more of a bureaucrat than an investigator…

… he stated that OP did not to give a statement as to what had transpired…

___ so it makes perfect sense that Lt Colonel Van Rensburg would solicit a full spectrum of forensic investigators.

I NEVER stated that a fingerprints expert was NOT on the scene.

I NEVER stated that fingerprints were NOT lifted on the scene.

I stated :

" Police investigators rarely attempt to recover fingerprints or pursue DNA analysis when the people involved in the crime share a home. "

and

" We haven't heard any forensics evidence at Trial that could suggest that Reeva's phone or anything else for that matter was tested for fingerprints. "

… quite impossible to submit a link or reference to something that did NOT happen.

 

[AJ_DS]

I believe there were five casings found - four in the bathroom and one in the passageway.

… since it is common cause evidence that OP fired 4 bullets, perhaps you could provide a link or reference to those alleged 5 empty bullet casings ?

 

[Hoosen_Fenger]

Just going back through some of OP's Testimony.

For any Pistorians who still need convincing, show them this. Go to 22:25. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgGuW2XPL5E OP states he cannot walk on his stumps.

In the UK, when we are being polite, we do not call someone a liar. We say that someone is 'being economical with the truth.'

 

[AJ_DS]

Oh, don't you know it?! LOL

Do you think Roux could possibly come up with anything new and outlandish, even at this very late date - a grand, last-ditch effort? LOL

Nothing new and outlandish IMO… but I suspect that hearing the Defence's case all in one stroke will be very amusing.

…especially since many allegations were made by the Defence and it was stated that those allegations would be proven but they never were :

- OP screaming alternately like a woman and a man…

- The bat strikes sounding like gunshots and gunshots sounding like bat strikes...

- The analysis of photographs by an expert who would demonstrate the police tampering conspiracy against OP…

- etc...

 

[jslk]

Sorry if this has been covered, I cannot recall when this last came up - are the final arguments to be televised or not? If not, are we relying on tweets etc from journos inside the court?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I haven't seen anything during the trial showing that. Also, it was said in the media that his trophies were strewn across in the sitting room, but I remember a photo during the trial where the trophy cabinet was pointed out. Nothing was said of them being "out of order".


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

If I didn't dream, I have seen a pic with the thrown trophies. It is no longer available, unfortunately.
Though no point at trial, I believe in that!

 

[AJ_DS]

About the mysterious Frank…

Frank's quarters do NOT have access to the inside of OP's house as per Lt Colonel Van Rensburg's testimony.

Frank could not walk around OP's house as he pleased and then go to his quarters directly…

Frank would have to exit his quarters which lead outside the house, walk to one of the house doors and unlock it to enter said house…

To go back to his quarters, Frank would have to unlock house door, exit the house, lock the door and walk back to his quarters.

… this may explain a series of events that transpired on 14 February :

- Frank was woken up by the screaming/gunshots

- Frank exited his quarters, ran to the front door and unlocked it… which was found unlocked by Carice Stander, Johan Stander and the security guards

- Frank proceeded upstairs to render assistance to OP

- Seeing Frank, OP yelled "Get out of my f***en house"… since we know the intruder story is pure fabrication, the only reason for OP stating that he yelled that is to cover up the fact that he in fact yelled that BUT it was directed either at Reeva or Frank… if it was after the gunshots, then it could ONLY be directed at Frank.

- Frank went back downstairs, exited the house, closed the front door BUT did NOT lock it… Baba stated that he saw Carice turn the door handle and open the front door which was closed but NOT locked contradicting Carice who stated that the front door was unlocked AND slightly open.

- Frank went back to his quarters, got dressed and exited the premises as instructed by OP.… where he was seen by witnesses.

____ Since Frank's involvement was not welcome, OP had to fabricate his version with him unlocking the front door, not Frank… this had the additional benefit of giving OP an opportunity to explain away the damaged bedroom door with his ridiculous 'charging of the bedroom door from outside the bedroom' incident.

As for the house alarm in all this… My contention is that it was NEVER turned ON because Reeva had not yet gone to bed… she was working downstairs, had a snack around 1:15AM, startled OP out of sleep around 1:48AM, argued loudly with OP from 1:56AM to around 3:00AM…

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Proposal for our court watching breakfast time.

Lol, nothing nice in my house at the moment. I'm just staring in astonishment at the packet Mr Z's decided to buy - some sort of microwave hazelnut pudding that's supposed to be served in a teacup? I am deeply suspicious......

OMG, what is this for sale in our German supermarkets? Abnormal! If tasty, then in turn not enough to eat.

 

[AJ_DS]

I think the meeting must have been to do with the assault case - I've discovered that the case was due to be heard in just one week's time, ie on 20 February 2013.

I imagine Taylor-Memmory had just rejected OP's settlement proposal. IMO, OP must have convinced Reeva that he did nothing wrong - hence, she was sympathising and trying to console him. He probably told her that TM had rejected his offer and that she'd got him over a barrel, as, although he was innocent of any wrongdoing, he'd be forced to increase his offer if he wanted to settle the matter out of Court in order to preserve his reputation and sponsorships. He was painting himself as the victim and TM as a female on the make, trying to take advantage of his celebrity status.

http://mg.co.za/article/2013-02-01-00-prior-assault-claim-stalks-oscar-pistorius

Great post !… it makes a lot of sense : it combines the financial aspect and the nice guy aspect… plus it makes sense OP would attempt to disguise this meeting and news as something purely financial at Trial… having to answer embarrassing questions about assaulting a woman at his murder Trial would be less than ideal.

 

[kittychi]

Oh, don't you know it?! LOL

Do you think Roux could possibly come up with anything new and outlandish, even at this very late date - a grand, last-ditch effort? LOL

Hah...someone on Twitter suggested the only defense left for him to try is assisted suicide.

I wanted to laugh but it is so damned tragic.

 

[kittychi]

The Pistorius family is quite shrewd when it comes to money matters. I read that OP could be liquidating his assets because regardless of the outcome of this trial, he could still be taken to court on a civil trial for the wrongful death of Reeva. If this was to occur and the Steenkamp family was awarded monetary compensation, it would come out of OP's assets. If OP has liquidated his assets, there would be nothing to give to Reeva's parents.

In actuality though, OP would not be broke because he has family money behind him and he could draw on this but the Steenkamps would not be able to.

I understood that talks had begun between the two parties before the trial. I would hope that there has already been some type of accounting and/or some of his assets put in escrow. No?

 

[Cherwell]

True. And regarding the depositions, on the one hand, Samantha Greyvenstien swears that Reeva had told her that she would probably marry OP if he proposed, and on the other, goes on to state that Reeva felt he was very intense and moving very fast, the implication being that he was moving too fast.

I guess both statements could be true, but, IMO, they tend to cancel each other out.

If the statements came in that order, it sounds as though she believed his story at first, but then as more details emerged, she had second thoughts and withdrew her support.

I think the meeting must have been to do with the assault case - I've discovered that the case was due to be heard in just one week's time, ie on 20 February 2013.

I imagine Taylor-Memmory had just rejected OP's settlement proposal. IMO, OP must have convinced Reeva that he did nothing wrong - hence, she was sympathising and trying to console him. He probably told her that TM had rejected his offer and that she'd got him over a barrel, as, although he was innocent of any wrongdoing, he'd be forced to increase his offer if he wanted to settle the matter out of Court in order to preserve his reputation and sponsorships. He was painting himself as the victim and TM as a female on the make, trying to take advantage of his celebrity status.

http://mg.co.za/article/2013-02-01-00-prior-assault-claim-stalks-oscar-pistorius

This sounds spot-on to me. CTM's version of what happened is very believable when you take into account OP's reported behaviour towards those women at the Kings Of Leon concert. Let's not forget that article was published long before the events of 14 Feb 2013.

 

[AJ_DS]

I understood that talks had begun between the two parties before the trial. I would hope that there has already been some type of accounting and/or some of his assets put in escrow. No?

I don't believe it works that way… the possibility of a future, not yet filed, civil suit does not compel the respondent to set aside financial assets in the theoretical, still undetermined, amount of said suit.

The "talks" before Trial were simply an out of Court unsolicited gesture… to demonstrate good faith and avoid future litigation… as that settlement, if accepted, would surely be contingent on a non-disclosure agreement and a blanket immunity for further litigation on that matter.

 

[Greater Than]

As you point out, there seems to be something wrong here. It sounds as though Prof G. believes there was an intruder in the first place. We have ear witnesses whose testimonies say anything but. How on earth could Masipa ignore them? Surely Prof G. doesn't think that an excuse may be found, due to OP's "mental state", that would permit him to kill a girlfriend after/during an argument when psychiatrists deem him not to be suffering from any disorder.

After rereading Prof Grant's blog posts, I now think when he said "mental state" he meant in regards to intent, not mental defect.

It is worth observing that intention is an entirely subjective enquiry – it turns on the actual subjective mental state of the accused. One can only be convicted of murder in South Africa, if you intend not only to kill another human being, but if you intend to unlawfully kill another human being. This is a well-entrenched defence in South African law.
http://criminallawza.net/2014/03/03/the-pistorius-defence/

So his comments in the original article that was posted suggest to me that he's saying it's tough for him to call whether OP will be convicted of CH or murder.

 

[Greater Than]

I think the meeting must have been to do with the assault case - I've discovered that the case was due to be heard in just one week's time, ie on 20 February 2013.

I imagine Taylor-Memmory had just rejected OP's settlement proposal. IMO, OP must have convinced Reeva that he did nothing wrong - hence, she was sympathising and trying to console him. He probably told her that TM had rejected his offer and that she'd got him over a barrel, as, although he was innocent of any wrongdoing, he'd be forced to increase his offer if he wanted to settle the matter out of Court in order to preserve his reputation and sponsorships. He was painting himself as the victim and TM as a female on the make, trying to take advantage of his celebrity status.

http://mg.co.za/article/2013-02-01-00-prior-assault-claim-stalks-oscar-pistorius

That sounds like a plausible theory, but what makes me think it may be something else is the fact that his meeting was with his financial advisers. If the meeting was regarding the lawsuit and an offer, I would think his meeting would be with his attorney. MOO

 

[Cherwell]

That sounds like a plausible theory, but what makes me think it may be something else is the fact that his meeting was with his financial advisers. If the meeting was regarding the lawsuit and an offer, I would think his meeting would be with his attorney. MOO

Do we know for sure whom he met that day? or do we just have his version?

 

[jay-jay]

Do we know for sure whom he met that day? or do we just have his version?

He certainly seemed to have a lot on that day, didn't he .. there was the meeting where the 'sh**ty' thing happened (whatever it was), then he had a meeting with Divaris, then went to that party (his estate agents 10th birthday bash, forgotten the name of the estate agents now, and I shouldn't have because there was all that confusion over the name, LOL!). He must've been whacked by the time he got back home .. and no doubt quite irritable (and possibly with some drink inside him already ..)

 

[Hoosen_Fenger]

About the mysterious Frank…

Frank's quarters do NOT have access to the inside of OP's house as per Lt Colonel Van Rensburg's testimony.

Frank could not walk around OP's house as he pleased and then go to his quarters directly…

Frank would have to exit his quarters which lead outside the house, walk to one of the house doors and unlock it to enter said house…

To go back to his quarters, Frank would have to unlock house door, exit the house, lock the door and walk back to his quarters.

… this may explain a series of events that transpired on 14 February :

- Frank was woken up by the screaming/gunshots

- Frank exited his quarters, ran to the front door and unlocked it… which was found unlocked by Carice Stander, Johan Stander and the security guards

- Frank proceeded upstairs to render assistance to OP

- Seeing Frank, OP yelled "Get out of my f***en house"… since we know the intruder story is pure fabrication, the only reason for OP stating that he yelled that is to cover up the fact that he in fact yelled that BUT it was directed either at Reeva or Frank… if it was after the gunshots, then it could ONLY be directed at Frank.

- Frank went back downstairs, exited the house, closed the front door BUT did NOT lock it… Baba stated that he saw Carice turn the door handle and open the front door which was closed but NOT locked contradicting Carice who stated that the front door was unlocked AND slightly open.

- Frank went back to his quarters, got dressed and exited the premises as instructed by OP.… where he was seen by witnesses.

____ Since Frank's involvement was not welcome, OP had to fabricate his version with him unlocking the front door, not Frank… this had the additional benefit of giving OP an opportunity to explain away the damaged bedroom door with his ridiculous 'charging of the bedroom door from outside the bedroom' incident.

As for the house alarm in all this… My contention is that it was NEVER turned ON because Reeva had not yet gone to bed… she was working downstairs, had a snack around 1:15AM, startled OP out of sleep around 1:48AM, argued loudly with OP from 1:56AM to around 3:00AM…

I did not snip this because…..

That there AJ - is proper sleuthing! Who knows whether this in fact happened, however, it is very plausible and fits in with what we know to be fact. Top work!