Trial Discussion Thread #49 - 14.08.7, Day 39 ~final arguments~

[zwiebel]

Nel: Count 2. Firing thru sunroof. We're not saying there were not contradictions. If they'd conferred, one would not have expected any. They came forward on different occasions....They agreed accused fired shot through roof, and laughed about it.

 

[zwiebel]

Nel says OP denied he shot, denied he went to the house with them and that it is cut and dried - court accepts their word or his.

 

[zwiebel]

Nel now talks about OP having 'gun between his legs' on the boat.

If this was a jury trial, with men on it........they'd be wincing at that. Reckless indeed.

 

[zwiebel]

Nel covering Sam's not knowing where she was in the car. Says that's a sign of her honesty too.

 

[jay-jay]

That was an excellent analogy by Nel about the '10%' .. he likened it to having cancer where the rest of the body can be 90% (or more) perfectly ok, but it's that 10% (or less) that is the crucial bit.

Now I'm worried .. Judge Masipa interjected by saying you can't really say what their relationship was like just because of those few messages .. gahhhhhh! If she doesn't understand the significance of those messages, then there's no hope .. (she probably won't understand the significance of any of all this other evidence Nel is presenting today .. the evidence is so overwhelming it takes your breath away .. I sincerely hope she is 'getting' it .. )

 

[jay-jay]

Dunno who this Ravenstein is, who made a statement but defence didn't know if she was available?

Anyway, Nel says court can't accept it.

Nel now reading Reeva's 'scared when you snap at me' msg to OP, on 27 Jan.

Samantha Grayvenstein .. she is Justin Divaris's girlfriend, Zwiebs

 

[zwiebel]

Onto restaurant shooting now.

Nel: (OP said) I should not have taken the gun under the table...the gun went off...OP then said I did not discharge the firearm. It went off when I was in the position...

Nel: It reminds one of his evidence on the main count...

 

[zwiebel]

Nel: The court must look at what's reasonably possible.....Cpt Mangena testified the gun cannot fire without the finger on the trigger. Owner said it can't....Accused NEVER discussed with anyone that gun had just discharged with no apparent reason.....But no, he's more concerned with keeping it out of the media.

 

[zwiebel]

Nel: (First) OP said "it did not bother me" that gun went off on his own, when I asked. Then he said it did....it just did not happen. He himself said he was in possession of the gun when it went off. That Glock cannot go off on its own.

 

[Sherbert]

Now I'm worried .. Judge Masipa interjected by saying you can't really say what their relationship was like just because of those few messages .. gahhhhhh! If she doesn't understand the significance of those messages, then there's no hope .. (she probably won't understand the significance of any of all this other evidence Nel is presenting today .. the evidence is so overwhelming it takes your breath away .. I sincerely hope she is 'getting' it .. )

I'm worried, too, jay-jay...The scepticism in her expression is horribly palpable: :facepalm:

 

[zwiebel]

Nel says ammo fnd in house, OP began to argue with him but "He possessed it. It was in house. It's like cannabis. If you possessed it, it's yours."

Judge says you need animus?

Nel says you don't. "Animus is to possess, not to use......you're not allowed to have it, if you don't have a permit. He said he had it, on behalf of his father. His intention was to have it. He's guilty, milady."

 

[zwiebel]

Judge doesn't seem to have grasped that aspect of the law, about possession?

Versus ownership/use?

 

[Susza]

I like Nel's metapher of the relay race: OP lost the bat

 

[jay-jay]

Judge Masipa doesn't appear to understand the law with regard to 'possession' :facepalm: :banghead: :doh:

 

[808]

Nel now talks about OP having 'gun between his legs' on the boat.

If this was a jury trial, with men on it........they'd be wincing at that. Reckless indeed.

His Dad Henke famously shot himself in hte groin while cleaning a gun, like father like son ?:thinking:

 

[zwiebel]

Nel now covering Reeva running and locking herself in bathroom. 'Doelus directus'?

 

[zwiebel]

Right, now all the Latin terms are coming out to confuse me....

 

[zwiebel]

His Dad Henke famously shot himself in hte groin while cleaning a gun, like father like son ?:thinking:

Reckless, careless, and even a little dumb, imo.

 

[jillondon]

Has anybody else noticed that OP's father didn't come back after the tea break? I haven't got to the lunch break yet so don't know if he makes another appearance later today.

 

[zwiebel]

Nel is quoting case law to show intention is the important factor. And there must be a reasonable event to cause someone to fire in self defence. Says "OP cannot escape" - the only other reasonable conclusion is OP thought there was an intruder in the bathroom.

"He's guilty of murder, Milady."