Trial Discussion Thread #49 - 14.08.7, Day 39 ~final arguments~

[Mr Fossil]

Agreed… but 2 possibilities :

1. The submitted heads of arguments in writing are more complete than we realize and Nel's address today was only a quick fly-by.

2. Nel feels confident that he has addressed the important bits for a conviction and the rest of it that we wanted to hear was superfluous to that goal.

I'm shocked that Nel seems not to have addressed the cricket bat strikes and that he has omitted to furnish a comprehensive timeline of events.

Roux alleging Dr. Stipp's lack of reliability by matching unrelated events such as the Help, Help, Help with the 3:27AM phone call is preposterous… I suspect that Roux's last option is to attempt to confuse Masipa with inexistent ambiguities.

He does say the following in the Heads of Argument:

139

It is inconceivable that the accused’s version of him screaming before he fired the shot could be true, if the Defence would argue that the first sounds heard by the witnesses were the shots and the second sounds were the door being broken.

Mrs Stipp was awake before the first sounds. Significantly it was never put to her that the accused screamed before he shot and killed the deceased in a bathroom of which the window was open

140

To argue that the first sounds were the shots and the second sounds were the breaking open of the door will, of course, make it difficult for the Defence to argue why the Nghlengethwas missed a series of sounds (the purportedly equally loud breaking down of the door).

 

[soozieqtips]

I must admit I feel a bit deflated after watching Nel all morning. I was expecting him to tie all the loose ends together and describe the events of that night as he thought they happened. Instead, he detailed OP's lies almost as individual bullet points, and we never really got to hear the 'story' so we could make sense of it. I was glad he pointed out Roux's habit of promising to provide evidence that supported OP's version, but never actually coming up with it, like OP screaming like a woman, for example. Plus the fact Roux didn't ever challenge the state witnesses about having moved things at the crime scene, indicates (to me) that he didn't believe they did. I think OP assumed the case would fall apart once he introduced the idea of 'tampering', but as Roux never questioned anyone about it, I'm sticking that nugget in the recycle bin! All in all, quite disappointed with Nel's performance today, but then again, perhaps I was expecting too much.

 

[G.bng]

The court should not take account that a cricket bat sounds like a gunshot

So are you then saying that Masipa, the fact finder and truth finder, and her assistants, must either find both Mr and Mrs Stipps lied about hearing two different volleys or that she should, without any evidence whatsoever, find another four shots !?!

 

[AJ_DS]

Anyone else notice the incessant coughing during Nel's closing arguments ?

What was that all about ?… It was quite annoying… Don't recall there being such coughing during the Trial.

Has the ebola epidemic reached SA ?

Did Defence retain the services of professional 'coughers' to purposefully distract Nel, Masipa and the assessors ?

If coughing is absent tomorrow, my suspicions will certainly grow…lol

 

[AJ_DS]

So are you then saying that Masipa, the fact finder and truth finder, and her assistants, must either find both Mr and Mrs Stipps lied about hearing two different volleys or that she should, without any evidence whatsoever, find another four shots !?!

It is common cause evidence that OP fired 4 shots and struck the door with cricket bat 3-4 times

The issue is the chronology : which came first, bat or gun ?

State is bat then gun… Defence is gun then bat

Based on the evidence, the State's case is far more probable and reasonable.

Stipps did not lie… it is wishful thinking on your part that makes you see what is not there….IMO

 

[G.bng]

He didnt, and that is a big flaw in the state's case.

No only that he "didn't" Minor, he couldn't!

 

[Lux et Veritas]

Defense claims within their papers that Nel continuously called OP a liar throughout his testimony. Nel says he did not. That one time he said "If that is not the case then you are lying." He was reprimanded by the judge for saying that and never used the word "liar" before that or after.

I always found this reprimand strange, highly unfair and rather bizarre.

Isn’t the entire premise of a murder trial TRUTH and LIES and ferreting out the difference?

If someone is overtly lying, to call them a LIAR - and to prove so - is simply stating the truth; it’s neither an insult, defamation nor is it prejudicial or character assassination.

If the State is allowed to charge and declare the defendant a murderer, why is it not allowed to call that same defendant a liar? LOL

 

[AJ_DS]

No only that he "didn't" Minor, he couldn't!

Of course he could have.

… and he did… indirectly… read the State's head of arguments.

He did not focus on it because I suspect it is irrelevant to the main objective which is to prove OP is guilty of murder and NOT to reconstruct every single thing that happened that night.

OP is not charged with assaulting Reeva with a deadly weapon, to wit the cricket bat… OP stands accused of murdering Reeva with a handgun

 

[tsitra01]

I have only posted a cpl. times since the Trial began and one of my posts was my feeling that Masipa was not showing she was taking testimony presented by Nel as serious as I hoped she would and she proved it today when she remarked during his closing on the importance of the Whatsapps from RS. The way OP was treating her didn't happen on one day or last week, it was ongoing , even during good times, she stated she always had to be mindful of OP frame of mind so he would'nt turn on her.
Masipa interrupting Nel during cross to scold him saying OP didn't write his Bail... So don't hold him responsible for important information that OP claims was left out but the States witnesses were not given the same consideration. No I don't feel comfortable at all with Masipa......I hope I am wrong

 

[Viper]

Hello all! I did not get to watch all of it, just the first 30-45 minutes. Were there any really great moments that I should cheat and skip to the next chance that I get to watch the YouTube videos?

 

[AJ_DS]

Hello all! I did not get to watch all of it, just the first 30-45 minutes. Were there any really great moments that I should cheat and skip to the next chance that I get to watch the YouTube videos?

Hi Viper… long time no see !!

Nope… nothing really great IMO

 

[Val1]

The length of extension cord will hardly make or break this case.

Not to mention that the whole discussion about it started not because it wasn't long enough, but that it only had plug ins for two appliances, both which where being used by the clippers and the large fan whereas the small fan was almost against the far wall, obviously unplugged. From lisasalinger's awesome blog(sorry I can't seem to copy and paste addresses in the image box anymore and I'm too tired to type it all):
http://juror13lw.wordpress.com/2014/04/11/oscar-trial-day-21-oscar/

http://juror13lw.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/reeva-jeans-on-duvet.png

http://juror13lw.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/position-of-led-light.png

http://juror13lw.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/clippers-standing-up.png

 

[jilly]

I have only posted a cpl. times since the Trial began and one of my posts was my feeling that Masipa was not showing she was taking testimony presented by Nel as serious as I hoped she would and she proved it today when she remarked during his closing on the importance of the Whatsapps from RS. The way OP was treating her didn't happen on one day or last week, it was ongoing , even during good times, she stated she always had to be mindful of OP frame of mind so he would'nt turn on her.
Masipa interrupting Nel during cross to scold him saying OP didn't write his Bail... So don't hold him responsible for important information that OP claims was left out but the States witnesses were not given the same consideration. No I don't feel comfortable at all with Masipa......I hope I am wrong

Thank you for posting this. ITA. I've had my doubts about her before. Let's see what she's like with Roux tomorrow.

 

[IndianSummer]

Well, then there is Nel's way with words...
something like- it was not a NORMAL relationship because it ended in death

 

[eimajjjj]

Thought Nel did a smashing job.

And if you read the heads as well as watch it, the evidence is absolutely overwhelming, from whichEVER way you look at it. To be honest, he's here to get a conviction not win an Oscar (no pun intended) and Masipa has about 12 different routes to arrive at guilty of murder in my opinion from the evidence laid out.

Personally, I'm just annoyed that the second slip up regarding I went 'onto' the balcony during his bail affidavit wasn't used during the 'baker's dozen. In the bail affidavit, later on, OP writes:

"With the benefit of hindsight I believe that Reeva went to the toilet when I went out on the balcony to bring the fan in."

Far more incriminating.

Anyway, 64 more incriminating parts of evidence for Masipa to look at in the meantime.

 

[leda]

I don't think it was a disaster by any means. I was also expecting Nel to raze the defence to the ground and that didn't happen. Balls.

 

[Val1]

He didnt, and that is a big flaw in the state's case.

Wasn't the point of the whole case to prove that OP killed "someone" in the toilet room illegally, intentionally, not when or even whether he tried bashing in the toilet room door.....

 

[Lux et Veritas]

Oh, the short, blazing glory that once was OSCAR PISTORIUS.

We’ve watched his entire life disintegrate before us.

From the highest highs a man can achieve - to the very lowest known to man.

Like watching a massive skyscraper implode.

Spectacular. Sad.

In the end, reduced to a tiny heap of dust and rubble.

Swept away as if it had never been.

The very worst part . . .

Oscar himself pushed the red button.

***************

Both OP and Reeva had the world at their feet, so full of promise and potential for happy, full lives of good.

It's stunning how even a few seconds of rage - the domino effect - can forever change personal, family and even world history.

 

[buntspecht]

Defence's heads of argument in pdf format
http://oscarpistorius.com/downloads/Oscar-Pistorius-Heads-of-Argument.pdf

thanx a lot!

 

[K.T]

Oh no, I don't have a spare second to listen to trial live after a full schedule conference/holiday...but from the articles I gave skimmed and HOD online it seems as if Nel has stuck to his game-plan (which revealed a dubious at best accused murderer) and has not introduced any surprising material. I think, as one of SA's most well known prosecutors, he knows the system and what he needs for whatever convictions they feel they can get.

By arguing every piece of Pistorius defense is confusing, contradictory and, or, implausible, Nel has made a vortex where Pistorius may be convicted by his own words rather than the more specualtive version of actions.

My call, it's not very satisfying for us who want to know an aggregate of opinion to what exactly happened (though we can all surmise) to Steenkamp, but Pistorius case is fairly solid - at the least conviction murder on eventualis and prob for directus.