Trial Discussion Thread #5 - 14.03.11-12, Day 7-8

[Estelle]

Most folks at night charge their phones, do their not? Agree, it's hinkey that all 4 phones were in the bathroom. Very very hinkey to me. Mine... charging by the bed.

This is not correct. Only TWO phones were found in the bathroom.

On the shower mat in the en-suite bathroom lay a firearm and an iPhone 4 and iPhone - there were blood spatters on one of the phones.

Mr Botha said four phones in total were found in the athlete's home and none of them had been used to call emergency services.

http://gragrah.blogspot.com.au/2013/02/four-phones-found-in-house-of-pistorius.html

 

[Dmacky]

Correct me if i'm wrong but doesn't today's big revelation add slight credibility that a cover up was being attempted.
For example
They argue, he lays in his bed alone looking at /used cars.
At some point they argue again, out comes the gun, Reeva cowers in the toilet, he fires the shot's.
He then comes back with the bat to try and get the door open, eventually he gets the door open and by now is in a state of panic at what he's just done and the consequences.
He phones stander who comes over with the intent to help with a cover up but the whole thing is put to a stop by a combination of baba and stipp showing up.
Some notes on this theory
* It fits in perfectly with Oscar's bizarre decision to call Stander first
* It fits in with the everything is fine comment to Baba
* I've always thought Oscar's comment to Stipp that he thought Reeva was a intruder was somewhat defensive in it's nature.

I am also very keen to hear why Oscar went upstairs?.

Not saying i believe this is what happened, just a theory going off today's event's.

Great post James! I absolutely believe this scenario is quite possible.

BBM
I think the toilet/bathroom and bedroom are all upstairs. Not sure if that was what you where asking ??

 

[FrancesB]

It have wondered about this too...and wondered if he was shooting towards noises that were emanating from the room...or if he looked through the keyhole

Well, if we follow Pistorius claims from his affidavit, he went to the bathroom and shot because he could "hear movement" and he stated he was on his stumps. How likely was it that, if he really heard noises in the toilet, he'd have walked well in to the bathroom and listened for noises, given he was supposedly in fear of "grave danger". How likely would it be that fearing for his life and being on his stumps, he went up to the door and listened very precisely for noises, before he fired?

On the other hand, that sliver of door that is missing from the photo would have given him a chance to see into the toilet and fire accordingly. As the State now believe that he was on his stumps while shooting AND while using the bat against the door, Pistorius may well have fired a shot when Ms Steenkamp was in there, then attacked with the bat, broke a sliver of wood and thereby got partial view of where she was and fired again, all that would tie in with witness screams that they heard a woman screaming, blood curdling screams etc.

Can't wait for the ballistics.

 

[Jamtart]

Well, if we follow Pistorius claims from his affidavit, he went to the bathroom and shot because he could "hear movement" and he stated he was on his stumps. How likely was it that, if he really heard noises in the toilet, he'd have walked well in to the bathroom and listened for noises, given he was supposedly in fear of "grave danger". How likely would it be that fearing for his life and being on his stumps, he went up to the door and listened very precisely for noises, before he fired?

On the other hand, that sliver of door that is missing from the photo would have given him a chance to see into the toilet and fire accordingly. As the State now believe that he was on his stumps while shooting AND while using the bat against the door, Pistorius may well have fired a shot when Ms Steenkamp was in there, then attacked with the bat, broke a sliver of wood and thereby got partial view of where she was and fired again, all that would tie in with witness screams that they heard a woman screaming, blood curdling screams etc.

Can't wait for the ballistics.

I suppose it would depend what the noises were and how loud...he might not have to listen too carefully. If his story about the intruder is true, then I agree that he wouldn't have gone right up close to the door before shooting...if it is true. And I agree that the ballistics evidence will be interesting, I just hope it's not as apparently incompetent as the bat evidence!

 

[atthelake]

I managed to grab this screenshot, and I circled what I believe are the bullet holes. Note also the sliver of wood missing from the reconstruction, I think that gap would allow viewing into the toilet.

View attachment 41748

Her shot to her hip was at 36"... did they say how high each bullet hole was from the floor?

TIA

ETA: I blew it up, but not good enough resolution. Was there any discussion of stipling to help determine if more than 3 or 4 feet away vs within that which may have stipling?

ETA#2...typo..making it 36" as 46" was a typo, sorry

 

[Cherwell]

Her shot to her hip was at 46"... did they say how high each bullet hole was from the floor?

I thought it was 36 inches - but I thought that was simply the measurement taken from her foot to the hip wound. I might be wrong though.

 

[james83]

Great post James! I absolutely believe this scenario is quite possible.

BBM
I think the toilet/bathroom and bedroom are all upstairs. Not sure if that was what you where asking ??

Sorry i should have been clearer, i was referring to the point where Oscar, Stander and Stipp were downstairs with Reeva's body and Oscar goes back upstairs.
Stipp alluded that he was concerned that Oscar might be going to get the gun to commit suicide.

 

[bessie]

I thought it was 36 inches - but I thought that was simply the measurement taken from her foot to the hip wound. I might be wrong though.

You're correct 92 centimeters/36 inches, and that's length, not height.

http://citizen.co.za/141361/family-members-console-pistorius/

 

[Cherwell]

You're correct. 19.2 meters/36 inches, and that's length, not height.

Surely it would be the same. If she was standing when hit, in that context it would be height (from the ground). Obviously she was lying down when the measurement was taken, so in that context it's length.

 

[Carol70]

I have no idea what to say about today's events..going to catch up quick.

 

[bessie]

Surely it would be the same. If she was standing when hit, in that context it would be height (from the ground). Obviously she was lying down when the measurement was taken, so in that context it's length.

Of course. Please excuse me, I worded that poorly. I found the direct quote, and it does say "from the ground". I'm fairly certain that does not indicate that the bullet was 92 centimeters (36") from the floor when it entered her thigh.

Steenkamp sustained a gunshot wound to her right hip, 92cm from the ground. He said a defect he had seen on Steenkamp’s pants was in line with this wound.

http://citizen.co.za/141361/family-members-console-pistorius/

ETA: Also, keep in mind this is not a direct quote from Steenkamp.

 

[atthelake]

Great work.
For me that proves this surely proves that the only way the head shot could have come first is if Reeva was cowering on the floor?.

But if that was so, how did she get a shot to her hip at 36". I still want to know at what level those 4 door holes were! :banghead: as I measured myself last night (i'm 5'6") my butt/top of leg/hip area was EXACTLY at 36". How tall was she? Anyone know? (knowing also, that many people have long legs to total body size as I do...but just to get kind of a reference).

I'm tending towards shot in hip at 36"...then she falls and the head gets hit based on NOW seeing that the holes in the door are the same... and doubt in QUICK succession the angles of the shots would vary widely iykwim.. assuming all were pretty much same angle... perhaps with the exception of one... as was heard bang...pause...bang bang bang

 

[Carol70]

Col was asked to test door for 'material analysis'.

R showing Col distinct mark by handle, asks if he investigated it.

Col says yes but he could not find any sign it was made by a cricket bat.

R: "On behalf of Mr P we will present evidence that it was made by a prosthesis and the fact is the fabric of the sock was found embedded in it.'

This is the first time I have thought about the fact that OP may have kicked the door with his bare "foot". What are they made of? Can imagine they are pretty hard or are they so advanced these days they would almost be like a real foot??

I'm just playing with the notion that one (first bang at 3.17)of the "bangs" heard could possibly been one of his kicks? We have heard there was a BANG......BANG BANG BANG....is it possible the first bang was his false foot kicking the door at all? Any thoughts on this from anyone??

Sorry if this has been covered but just picking up from earlier.

ETA: sorry, disregard, just saw he was wearing a sock :blushing:

 

[james83]

But if that was so, how did she get a shot to her hip at 36". I still want to know at what level those 4 door holes were! :banghead: as I measured myself last night (i'm 5'6") my butt/top of leg/hip area was EXACTLY at 36". How tall was she? Anyone know? (knowing also, that many people have long legs to total body size as I do...but just to get kind of a reference).

I'm tending towards shot in hip at 36"...then she falls and the head gets hit based on NOW seeing that the holes in the door are the same... and doubt in QUICK succession the angles of the shots would vary widely iykwim.. assuming all were pretty much same angle... perhaps with the exception of one... as was heard bang...pause...bang bang bang

Reeva was also 5'6"

 

[atthelake]

Correct me if i'm wrong but doesn't today's big revelation add slight credibility that a cover up was being attempted.
For example
They argue, he lays in his bed alone looking at /used cars.

I thought I had been following the trial and have not heard ANY evidence of he was looking at /used cars. Link please

TIA

<snipped for space RBBM - sorry for the bad "quote" don't know how to fix it

 

[loohoo]

Reeva was also 5'6"

Not sure if this is a good enough reference, but her Wikipedia page actually notes her height as 5'7.5".

 

[Cherwell]

Not sure if this is a good enough reference, but her Wikipedia page actually notes her height as 5'7.5".

Really? As she was a model, I thought she'd have been taller than that.

 

[Carol70]

Some locks are locked/unlocked manually, yes? They have a lock you can turn with your hand. This does not appear to be that kind of lock. It's just a key hole. Hope that makes sense.

Yep, you are correct, the keyhole is just to lock/unlock the door, the knob is to open it or close it. Very common here.

 

[james83]

Not sure if this is a good enough reference, but her Wikipedia page actually notes her height as 5'7.5".

Yes sorry i believe you are correct, i miscalculated.

 

[james83]

I thought I had been following the trial and have not heard ANY evidence of he was looking at /used cars. Link please

TIA

<snipped for space RBBM - sorry for the bad "quote" don't know how to fix it

Apologies didn't intend to confuse, has not as yet been mentioned as fact.