Trial Discussion Thread #51 - 14.11.9, Day 41 ~announcement of the verdict~

[Zim]

pardon for askin'. Is it just me or does it seem as if MiLady is reding her verdict notes for the first time....?

*Edit* Pardon for askin'. Is it just me or does it seem as if MiLady is reading her verdict notes for the first time....?

I cannot seem to edit my posts AGAIN !

:banghead:

 

[sleuth-d-]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...fected-the-oscar-pistorius-trial-9726275.html



"In Pistorius’s case, it would seem that dolus eventualis murder would apply if he had fired four shots into a cubicle that he had known was occupied, aware his actions would kill, regardless of who he thought was in there.

But it is more complicated than that, since Oscar Pistorius was initially put on trial specifically for the murder of Reeva Steenkamp.

If the judge accepts that he thought Reeva Steenkamp was in the bedroom at the point when he shot each bullet - then he could not possibly have foreseen that firing his gun through the door could have killed her."

so is it all down to the wording on the charge sheet...? jesus!

 

[Trooper]

allrighty then.......lock him up now !

*helplessly giggling*

I don't know how many years she can throw at him for 'negligence'....

 

[zwiebel]

Good Morning,

Would someone mind briefly recapping what happened and where we are now with the judge. Did she just adjourn for the day?

OP is not guilty of murder, but judge has just said he is negligent. So therefore cld be culpable homicide (like manslaughter), I think. And she has adjourned, for some unknown reason. Tea, probably. But that's it for today.

 

[jay-jay]

It's now sounding to me as if she is chopping and changing, just so that people cannot guess what her verdict is going to be .. but then, surely, wouldn't it have been better to give the verdict first, then her reasoning behind it afterwards, because she is just sounding completely incompetent now, with all of her contradictory statements.

 

[jay-jay]

OP is not guilty of murder, but judge has just said he is negligent. So therefore cld be culpable homicide (like manslaughter), I think. And she has adjourned, for some unknown reason. Tea, probably. But that's it for today.

Dear me :facepalm:

 

[geevee]

David Smith

@SmithInAfrica

Retweeted by

Masipa: A reasonable person would have foreseen that the person in the toilet would be hit and possibly killed. #Pistorius

Oscar Trial Channel

@OscarTrial199

Retweeted by

#oscartrial Masipa: accused knew there was person behind toilet door, chose to use firearm, he was competent as he'd been trained.

I thought this was the test for dolus eventualis?

 

[Exchange973]

You couldn't have been reading the forum properly then, because many of us had been voicing our concerns about her over the past few months.

Not as many as are now. Basically the last month on this forum has been people labelling "pistorians" as being weak minded people seduced by OP's celebrity and gleefully anticipating Maspita cutting him down to size. That hasn't happened and so she is no being labelled as weak herself.

 

[BarnacleZA]

Ugh....

1. While evaluating dolus eventualis, the accused did not foresee the possibility of the death of the person behind the door...

2. While evaluating negligence (culpable homicide), the accused did foresee the possibility of the death of the person behind the door...

WTF!

She contradicted herseld so many times already... But on a "point of law", her finding (on dolus eventualis) is therefore completely incorrect!

 

[sorrell skye]

oh well.. She has conceded he was 'unreasonable ' to fire 4 shots into a closed door... .. it was reasonable to expect death from that action.. so much for the proposal that he wasn't shooting to kill..

For the life of me, I cannot comprehend how Masipa reconciles the above with her rejection of dolus eventualis.

 

[K.T]

He failed to take any step to avoid this possible consequence (death). His conduct was negligent.

Stop until tomorrow morning 09:30.

"Negligent", huh, four exploding bullets into an enclosed box...you can get away with murder in South Africa. I find the judge's statements contradict exactly what she discussed in her judgement against dolus...she's said he could not foresee death but now suddenly it's reasonable to assume death?

Oh, and by the way, Shane and others constantly said questioned the validity and fairness of the South African judges, police and general legal and business arena...

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Hope to heaven Judge hasn't been taken ill. She looks a little frail physically.

She didn't avail herself with your posted "bottle collection"?

 

[Exchange973]

Oh, heck. Can't believe we've been left hanging like this. But Judge did say she has found OP negligent. That a reasonable person would not have fired and wld have foreseen consequences if they did, I think.

Maybe because we will go straight onto sentencing tomorrow - in chambers, Masipa warned Roux that CH would be likely so OP/counsel could prepare for sentencing tomorrow? Just a guess

 

[jay-jay]

Why on earth has she adjourned now?

If he does a runner tonight, It will be hard not to think that the situation was arranged for him to be able to do so.

There will be no need for him to do a runner now, not based on what we've heard so far.

 

[christee]

The live feed is on outside the courthouse. I think I hear OP crying.

 

[G.bng]

You couldn't have been reading the forum properly then, because many of us had been voicing our concerns about her over the past few months.

Did you mean "few" but spelt "many"?

 

[Interested Bystander]

Not as many as are now. Basically the last month on this forum has been people labelling "pistorians" as being weak minded people seduced by OP's celebrity and gleefully anticipating Maspita cutting him down to size. That hasn't happened and so she is no being labelled as weak herself.

She is quite clearly making mistakes in law according to some of the biggest legal brains in SA. If she is doing that, her judgement will be perceived as weak by lawyers and onlookers alike.

 

[Viper]

Well at least everyone in SA knows now how to kill their partner and get off Scott Free: shoot them near your bed and say that you awoke to a startle of a shadowy figure near your bed. Thanks Masipa! Going to off that ***** tonight! :smile:

 

[jay-jay]

Yes, she wasn't getting it - because the prosecution case was so hopeless. Nel made a big mistake focussing his case on OP intending to kill Reeva. He could have got evenualis had it been accepted that OP knew it was an intruder, but still intended to kill. I think this got lost in the distraction of "blood curdling screams" etc etc.

It's never a mistake to get the truth of a case, and to get that person convicted for what really happened.

 

[zwiebel]

Everyone surprised that we came back for less than half an hour after lunch, then, that was it. Very odd.