Trial Discussion Thread #56 - 14.15.10, Day 45 ~ sentencing~

[Madeleine74]

The upset case followers are just going to have to be resigned that justice may not come in this lifetime for OP, but in the taking of someone's life the way he did, Karma will be an added debt to his soul, perhaps to be paid in the next life.

There should be no one surprised (anymore) that OP will be granted minimal punishment; the signs have been there since the verdict. If you all are expecting some kind of justice, well, prepare yourself for disappointment.

 

[jacalyn]

I just noticed that the Steenkamps own lawyer was tearing up when Kim was talking about how Reeva was everything to her parents, and how much they loved her. Very very sad to see the visible pain on people's faces (except for OP's family, who remained stony faced throughout).

On a side note, Alex Crawford just said that if they're wrapped up by Friday, we should get the sentence then, but we've all read there'll be a delay before it's handed down. Masipa shoud just put everyone out of their misery, stop the charade, and announce it on Friday. She knows what it is. No need to torture Reeva's family for a moment longer.

Sentencing should of been read first (1st) thing in the morning of October 13th.

 

[Cherwell]

The upset case followers are just going to have to be resigned that justice may not come in this lifetime for OP, but in the taking of someone's life the way he did, Karma will be an added debt to his soul, perhaps to be paid in the next life.

There should be no one surprised (anymore) that OP will be granted minimal punishment; the signs have been there since the verdict. If you all are expecting some kind of justice, well, prepare yourself for disappointment.

My feeling is that he will need to watch his back constantly. He seems to be a pretty unpopular person in many circles anyway. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if someone decided to take the law into their own hands.

 

[Madeleine74]

Same predictions got made for many notorious murderers, without any such thing occurring: OJ Simpson, Scott Peterson, Robert Blake, just to name a few.

 

[Cherwell]

Life seems pretty cheap in SA.

 

[Madeleine74]

For others, yes. OP is their famous 'hero'/athlete. He is treated differently and likely always will be. The rules are simply different for him, even though they shouldn't be. He's likely safer than most, which is ironic given his hair trigger paranoia about intruders.

 

[jilly]

I don't even know how they could influence the sentence. Does anyone honestly think Masipa would take a blind bit of notice of their feelings?

I wouldn't even show up for the sentencing if I was them. I don't think Reeva would want them to either. They've shown the love they have for their daughter every day and I think they should spare themselves further anguish.
It's breaking MY heart seeing them suffer like this.

 

[Sherbert]

I imagine that Nel will eventually focus on the aggravating factors - e.g. No warning shot, fired four shots, victim behind a closed door, agony of victim, Tasha's incident showing previous form, OP 's knowledge of the gun laws, etc.

On the basis that she's looking for the easy option and is intellectually lazy - she doesn't analyse the facts for herself and her Judgement relies heavily on Roux's Heads of Argument - I feel that Nel's best option is to spell everything out for Milady in list format and actually hand in the list, too, so that she can incorporate it into her decision.

It's a longshot, I know, given that she's so biased, but it's obvious that Roux plays her like a fiddle and, if it's the easy option that she's looking for, IMO, Nel needs to play the game and deliver it, whether he likes it or not.

 

[Greater Than]

You don't have to pick. They're clearly both broken men.

Are you seriously equating OP's "brokenness" to that of the man whose defenseless, trapped daughter was gunned down??

GET REAL!

 

[jilly]

But that's the point that Dershowitz missed. Pistorius did not have to know that Reeva was behind the door in order to still be convicted of murder.

He knew that someone was behind the door - and he shot them four times. That is still murder...eventualis rather than directus.

You're absolutely right, but, it appears Masipa ignored that part of the law too. I just don't get it.

 

[jilly]

I imagine that Nel will eventually focus on the aggravating factors - e.g. No warning shot, fired four shots, victim behind a closed door, agony of victim, Tasha's incident showing previous form, OP 's knowledge of the gun laws, etc.

On the basis that she's looking for the easy option and is intellectually lazy - she doesn't analyse the facts for herself and her Judgement relies heavily on Roux's Heads of Argument - I feel that Nel's best option is to spell everything out for Milady in list format and actually hand in the list, too, so that she can incorporate it into her decision.

It's a longshot, I know, given that she's so biased, but it's obvious that Roux plays her like a fiddle and, if it's the easy option that she's looking for, IMO, Nel needs to play the game and deliver it, whether he likes it or not.

:goodpost:

 

[Greater Than]

My feeling is that he will need to watch his back constantly. He seems to be a pretty unpopular person in many circles anyway. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if someone decided to take the law into their own hands.

And then afterwards they can just claim they felt vulnerable and thought he was a burglar.

A perfectly acceptable defense since case law precedent has now been set.

 

[Estelle]

Nor me but is KK's point about South Africa's policy of 'zero tolerance to violence against women and children' a relevant factor in this case? Masipa has found OP guilty of CH and, in her view, he didn't know Reeva was in the toilet.

But OP assumed/knew an intruder was in the toilet as he heard the intruder make a noise and guessed it was the magazine rack.

 

[Lux et Veritas]

Masipa rushing Nel once again, saying she has commitments next week, and the week thereafter, and the week thereafter... so what? If sentencing has to carry on after, it will have to carry on. Didn't she say during the trial that she didn't want to rush anything? And now here she is, trying to disguise a sigh while Nel asks for a paltry 20-minute adjournment so that Kim can recover before being lampooned by Roux.

I want to know WTF she’s got more important going on than the high-profile, ultra-high-stakes Oscar Pistorius trial?

We know the truth.

She’s tired of the pretense, she knows the pre-ordained sentence, she wants to be done with it.

She wants to set the broken, persecuted Oz free into the tender, loving arms of his family, to be nurtured and “rehabilitated”.

Or at least that’s the plan, if Uncle Arnie can keep him corralled at the homestead and out of bar fights ... or worse.

Sometimes I kinda, sorta, almost feel sorry for Uncle Arnie.

He better start saving up for OP’s next trial. LOL

 

[Lux et Veritas]

The Oscar Pistorius trial should not only become classic law school reference but should enter the medical journals as a sterling illustration of familial and criminal pathology.

 

[Estelle]

The small group of people I mentioned in my previous post, would include AV, the social worker. Notice how she used the word 'thereof' all the time? That is the language of high class lawyers in England (barristers). It's a hangover from Colonial days in South Africa. It not only signifies legal knowledge, it signifies class too, which is inextricably bound together in the English judicial system, at the moment. She used 'Thereof' all the time in her evidence.

The other words barristers use are 'herewith, therefore, thereto, My honourable, etc'.

AV the social worker was not only trying to signal her 'legal knowledge' with her 'thereof' evidence today, she was trying to signal her (and the Pistorian family's?) class. In my opinion.

I was surprised when she called it "The Honourable court"

 

[WilliamMunter]

I remember very early on a WS member hmmm I think it was Shane from memory who said "this trial runs much deeper". I guess he has been proven right unfortunately.

Yes it was Shane13. At the time I just dismissed his theories. Turns out he was right about the missing phone.

 

[mirage1]

What is photo 55?

I'm going to get my hair done now. So in about two hours y'all can picture me as beautiful instead of just brilliant. Ha ha! I'm joking.

surprised you are not aware of photo 55 considering you were so adamant there were no facts that contradicted op's story. looking forward to your explanation. This photo not only contradicts, it shatters the whole premise of his story.

 

[turaj]

The upset case followers are just going to have to be resigned that justice may not come in this lifetime for OP, but in the taking of someone's life the way he did, Karma will be an added debt to his soul, perhaps to be paid in the next life.

There should be no one surprised (anymore) that OP will be granted minimal punishment; the signs have been there since the verdict. If you all are expecting some kind of justice, well, prepare yourself for disappointment.

Could not agree more...I have come to really dislike Milady...after her ruling I look at her is such a different way...i wonder if she will even offer any condolences or kind words towards Reeva or her family?

 

[JudgeJudi]

If it's not evidence, then it can't be tampering with evidence. That was my point. We don't know nearly enough to fully assess the allegations or their impact. I can't imagine what could have been on that phone that would have made that crack in the bullet hole in the door that destroyed the state's case go away.

And this is my point:

That phone was not removed from the crime scene by an investigating officer. The only people present at any time were police, ambos, OP, friends, family and lawyer.

How could it be used in evidence if the State were unaware of its existence?
It is a criminal offence to remove something from a crime scene without permission.
It was handed to OP's defence team by an unnamed person.
It was handed to OP's defence team some 12 days later.
Once it was in the possession of the State and been unlocked they discovered much had been deleted.

If what was deleted was irrelevant, why delete it at all.

This is totally inexcusable and is considered tampering, i.e. an act in which a person alters, conceals, falsifies, or destroys evidence with the intent to interfere with an investigation.

What don't you understand.