Trial Discussion Thread #56 - 14.15.10, Day 45 ~ sentencing~

[soozieqtips]

Pistorius was found guilty of the culpable homicide of Ms Steenkamp last month - but was cleared of murder.

Then he never will be a convicted "murderer/killer"? Have we to create a new term??

He killed someone, so he's a killer.

 

[LemonMousse]

Pistorius was found guilty of the culpable homicide of Ms Steenkamp last month - but was cleared of murder.

Then he never will be a convicted "murderer/killer"? Have we to create a new term??

He is definitely a convicted killer...but not a murderer (technically).

 

[lithgow1]

Pistorius was found guilty of the culpable homicide of Ms Steenkamp last month - but was cleared of murder.

Then he never will be a convicted "murderer/killer"? Have we to create a new term??

Well he did kill someone so I'm OK with calling him the 'convicted killer'. And according to Wikipedia (yeah yeah I know but they are OK for basic stuff), 'Homicide is the act of a human deliberately and unlawfully killing another human. This may include car accidents as well as assisted suicide.'

 

[lithgow1]

Re the three posts above, mine included, it seems we have a consensus.

 

[LemonMousse]

I am quite in love with Mr Nel....but I do agree that his mind wanders off at a tangent, and often at totally the wrong time. He's nowhere near as fluent in English as Roux is, but I definitely think he's the cleverer of the two men.

I bet he's very much more concise when speaking his native language.

 

[lithgow1]

From the Guardian:

And some key quotes from Nel:

The court can do him a favour by sentencing him to prison … because it’s free. He would not have to pay for psychological treatment in the prison.

Should people be deterred from firing four shots through a locked door in the middle of the night? … That’s what we’re dealing with.

You say he’s a broken person. He’s a broken person because of what he did. We have to weigh that up against a broken family.

 

[Aika]

The state says that they have to wrap up their witnesses & arguments so that Judge Masipa can give her sentence to #Pistorius on Friday

https://twitter.com/SJFindlay/status/522347762437095424

 

[Mr Fossil]

I am quite in love with Mr Nel....but I do agree that his mind wanders off at a tangent, and often at totally the wrong time. He's nowhere near as fluent in English as Roux is, but I definitely think he's the cleverer of the two men.

I bet he's very much more concise when speaking his native language.

I think, in fairness to Nel, he doesn't have as long to prepare as he's given reports at the last minute (or the day before in Vergeer's case). Roux didn't do anything really except ask her to read it. Nel then has to do a lot of thinking on his feet.

Also, as a result of Vergeer, he didn't know until yesterday that he would need to call a State Correction representative either.

Roux has complained in the past about trial by ambush and yet the rules allow the State to be ambushed all the time.

 

[Estelle]

Lee Hannon ‏@LeeITV 5m5 minutes ago

#OscarPistorius fmr girlfriend Sam Taylor and mother Trish have been called by prosecutor Gerrie Nel with Trish to take stand #OscarTrial

 

[DarKHawK]

Pistorius was found guilty of the culpable homicide of Ms Steenkamp last month - but was cleared of murder.

Then he never will be a convicted "murderer/killer"? Have we to create a new term??

Homicide is murder. Culpable homicide is still a form of murder, just the court removes intent by this definition. He will be convicted as a killer/murderer minus the intent. So there is no argument OP is not a murderer, it's all about degrees of responsibility and intent. Look up the definition of homicide.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

 

[jay-jay]

I will probably have to refrain from calling him a murderer from now on, instead I shall just say he is a vile killer.

 

[Estelle]

Paul Southern ‏@psouthernauthor 6m6 minutes ago

Watching the charismatic #GerrieNel trap another defence witness in the #OscarTrial, is like watching a spider spin silk round a fly.

 

[LemonMousse]

I think, in fairness to him, he doesn't have as long to prepare as he's given reports at the last minute (or the day before in Vergeer's case). Roux didn't do anything really except ask her to read it. Nel then has to do a lot of thinking on his feet.

Also, as a result of Vergeer, he didn't know until yesterday that he would need to call a State Correction representative either.

Yes...that's true too.

The defence's tactics here have been quite blatant and highly unprofessional, imo.

 

[sorrell skye]

Pistorius was found guilty of the culpable homicide of Ms Steenkamp last month - but was cleared of murder.

Then he never will be a convicted "murderer/killer"? Have we to create a new term??

He can't be considered (legally) a murderer. But he was convicted of culpable homicide, so he's still a convicted killer, since his actions caused the death of a human being.

ETA: I see that I'm being redundant, as the question has already been answered upthread.

Jay-Jay - Vile Killer - I like that term!

 

[soozieqtips]

They're back.

 

[Estelle]

Extradite_Knox ‏@Extradite_Knox 4m4 minutes ago

Well I won't miss #AimeePistorius's well rehearsed hound dog expression when #OscarTrial has ended #OscarPistorius ��

 

[LemonMousse]

Homicide is murder. Culpable homicide is still a form of murder, just the court removes intent by this definition. He will be convicted as a killer/murderer minus the intent. So there is no argument OP is not a murderer, it's all about degrees of responsibility and intent. Look up the definition of homicide.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

I'm not sure that's true, to be honest. Murder is a form of homicide, but not all homicide is murder.

Regretfully, OP was not convicted of murder so it would be wrong to call him a murderer, strictly speaking.

 

[zwiebel]

It seems to me that Pistorius noted the Steenkamp's media comments stating dissatisfaction with the verdict. And through vengeance and retribution, has chosen to reveal the payments made to them in open court. Surely that's the opposite of someone filled with remorse? I fear for Reeva supporters if he walks free.

Court back. Next witness Kim Martin.

 

[lithgow1]

Apparantly (B Bateman) it's back with Kim Martin, the cousin.

 

[patCee]

I saw some posts earlier suggesting the money from Pistorius was on the proviso that the Steenkamps remained neutral. This is not what the statement said. To clarify, it was their lawyer who advised them to remain neutral.

"2. We have advised the parents to remain neutral in regard to sentence in the sense that they should not be seen to attempt to influence the sentence in any way."

http://www.algoafm.co.za/article.aspx?id=10904

The reason their lawyer advised them to remain neutral, and how that is connected to the money, is lost on me. Why would would the lawyer do that if it wasn't something that worried OP's side. It doesn't sound like general advice during the proceedings because it's been connected directly to the statements about the money. I'm left wondering if it was something implied in the confidential discussions between the two sides. Since when do the families of victims remain neutral ? How do they manage a victim statement on that basis? (rhetorical questions)