Trial Discussion Thread #6 - 14.03.13-14, Day 9-10

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Karyn Maughan ‏@karynmaughan · 2h
Blood spatter expert Ian van der Nest in court throughout #OscarTrial. He has done detailed report on scene of shooting. @eNCAnews

https://twitter.com/karynmaughan
 
Roux says: "If you accept that that is the mark caused by a prosthetic foot on the door, then it tells a story?" Vermeulen agrees.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/oscar-pistorius-trial-live-updates-3236548#ixzz2vr52Yx7f
Follow us: @DailyMirror on Twitter | DailyMirror on Facebook


Of course there could have been a prosthetic foot mark on the door; Pistorius put his legs on to carry Reeva downstairs. What a pity Vermeulen didn’t have his brain in gear or, perhaps he did and is leaving to Nel to bring up when he cross examines OP.
 
Van REnsburg says.. the curtains were open, in the bedroom

didn't Oscar get up to pull them closed and bring the fans in?? or fan singular?? first it was one, then it was two.. isn't that when he 'heard the noise in the bathroom??
and if the curtains were open.. how come he didn't see his now vacant bed???


this whole story is falling apart on a daily basis..
The differing ways in which way the two balcony excursions were described in the bail affidavit have always seemed (to me) to offer a look into the minds of the defence.

"I woke up, went onto the balcony to bring the fan in and closed the sliding doors, the blinds and the curtains."

"I rushed back into the bedroom and opened the sliding door exiting onto the balcony and screamed for help."


When retrieving the fan, OP needed to build as much time as possible into the whole operation. "What a chore! First the [plural] doors, then the blinds, then the curtains ... I was there half the night!", kind of thing.

But when he nips back out onto the balcony to do his inexplicable shouting for help (do paramedics prowl the streets of Silverwoods at night?), he and his lawyers don't feel that instinctive need to drag the whole thing out as long as possible. They might even be deliberately downplaying the time that that would have wasted, when the first thing to have done would have been either ringing for an ambulance or getting RS out of the loo to give first aid. So now it's just a single door and no blinds or curtains that he has to negotiate.

If, say, they'd had him going out to his car to get his camera - if they'd felt that worked as a story instead of the fan-retrieval, then they wouldn't have itemised every micro-task involved. ("I unlocked the car, I opened the passenger-side door, I leant in, I opened the glove-box, I took out the camera, I closed the glove-box ... "). They'd probably have described it in very broad terms initially, confident that such an activity would plainly occupy enough time for RS to have got up and gone to the loo.

In the description of the fan-retrieval you can sense them straining to pad out the manoeuvres. The defence knows it doesn't make for a great story, and if they don't fancy it much then how can they expect anyone else to?

Again, that scarcely qualifies as evidence. More just an intuitive feel as to the veracity of a story. Of course if the judge finds OP guilty she'll need to come up with evidentiary reasons to back it up. But she's only human: she probably can't help but have at least a subconscious sense as to whether the defence version sounds right. That could well influence her in deciding how much weight to give to various pieces of evidence, e.g., whether she should punish the prosecution for their flakier witnesses by finding reasonable doubt, or if she elects to just disregard those testimonies as though they never happened - choosing instead to just go by the evidence she feels she can rely on.
 
I was frantically taking screenshots while it was all going on, and reviewing them, I found this one, of a bag on the left of the bath, which I'm sure was said to contain blood and wood splinters

View attachment 41789

Other screenshots (low quality) and short comments by me:

View attachment 41790

Thanks for the pics.I would be extremely grateful if you could post a snapshot of the fan in his bedroom or two fans that he now claims to have brought in from his balcony.I think it was produced as evidence in the court just before pictures of Reeva's night Bag was shown on the left side of his bed.
 
Roux says: "If you accept that that is the mark caused by a prosthetic foot on the door, then it tells a story?" Vermeulen agrees.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/oscar-pistorius-trial-live-updates-3236548#ixzz2vr52Yx7f
Follow us: @DailyMirror on Twitter | DailyMirror on Facebook


Of course there could have been a prosthetic foot mark on the door; Pistorius put his legs on to carry Reeva downstairs. What a pity Vermeulen didn’t have his brain in gear or, perhaps he did and is leaving to Nel to bring up when he cross examines OP.

I'm pretty certain Vermeulen did actually suggest that to Roux yesterday.
will try and find proof.
 
I'm pretty certain Vermeulen did actually suggest that to Roux yesterday.
will try and find proof.

I was playing catch-up most of yesterday as I had meetings to attend. I have taken my post from tweets. Maybe I should go and read a bit more. However, if you can find it I would be interested.
 
Thanks for the pics.I would be extremely grateful if you could post a snapshot of the fan in his bedroom or two fans that he now claims to have brought in from his balcony.I think it was produced as evidence in the court just before pictures of Reeva's night Bag was shown on the left side of his bed.

Hi Canny, I was taking so many screenshots, none of good quality and trying to type explanatory notes before the next photo came up, so it's not great, but there is one pic of a a fan amongst this lot:

1 main4.jpg
 
Can anybody make sense of the gun still being cocked and on or by the bloodied towels when the police turned up? Do you think it was intentional (after the event set-up) to try to show he was still alarmed that there might be an intruder? Or perhaps he thought of committing suicide but didn't go through with it.
 
I was playing catch-up most of yesterday as I had meetings to attend. I have taken my post from tweets. Maybe I should go and read a bit more. However, if you can find it I would be interested.

Here it is

Vermeulen said if the mark was caused by a prosthesis it was significant.

But he asked Judge Thokozile Masipa to consider the possibility that Pistorius may have stood on the wood and stumbled as he carried Steenkamp downstairs because it would have been very "deurmekaar" (confusing).

"That mark could have been from him walking over it (the wood with the mark)," he said.
 
Here it is

Vermeulen said if the mark was caused by a prosthesis it was significant.

But he asked Judge Thokozile Masipa to consider the possibility that Pistorius may have stood on the wood and stumbled as he carried Steenkamp downstairs because it would have been very "deurmekaar" (confusing).

"That mark could have been from him walking over it (the wood with the mark)," he said.

Thank you. Explains everything.
 
Just catching up, reading through tweets from reporters in courtroom. Interesting about damage to bedroom door. I haven't seen a clear photo, but what size is the hole in the bedroom door? Does anyone know?

Sources:

http://twitter.com/barrybateman/status/444085985866182656

http://twitter.com/barrybateman/status/444086139474165761

http://twitter.com/SmithInAfrica/status/444086538105008128

It Looks small, I think they were going on about an airgun at the side of that door. Screenshot has a small yellow circle on it, which I didn't put there, so maybe that's where the hole was and the police circled it:

Image33.jpg
 
Where did we all come up with "4 phones" found in the bathroom?
 
It's crazy how you just notice more and more nonsense with Oscar's story.
In his affidavit he said

During the early morning hours of 14 February 2013, I woke up, went onto the balcony to bring the fan in and closed the sliding doors, the blinds and the curtains. I heard a noise in the bathroom and realised that someone was in the bathroom. I felt a sense of terror rushing over me.

1) he brought the fan in closed the doors, blinds and curtains in what in his own words was a pitch black room, was he therefore planning on plugging the fan in and turning it on in the pitch black room?.
2) or was he planning on turning the light on in which case he would surely have left the doors open while he turned the light on rather than making his way over to the light switch in his pitch black dark room?.

Again i apologise if this has been discussed before.
 
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