Trial Discussion weekend Thread #18

[nastasya]

Yup. Those could be anything.

GPRS connections can be user requested or app/publisher requested. I looked up whatsapp and this app sends push notifications. So if this app, or any app on his phone, sends push notifications then these will most likely show as GPRS connections. The GPRS connections could also be, for instance, an email app downloading his email or an automatic update.

WhatsApp - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

3 GPRS connections over 1 minute long can't be "anything."

Text only messages and email retrieval lasts a couple seconds, tops.

WhatsApp messages can be audio or video. I use WhatsApp daily. The only time it accesses messages for 1 minute or more is when audio messages are being sent back and forth. Or video.

 

[nastasya]

I said 'it's not true and is misleading' - not that 'you' were misleading. Big difference... as I'm sure you know. Anyway, if the family handed in the phone six days later... (and I'm not sure what date to believe with all the different stories) why did they hold onto it at all when they knew it was evidence? Nel didn't get hold of it till 26th Feb. Do you have an opinion on why the phone wasn't handed in immediately? Anyway, Apple has support for forgotten 'unlock phone' passwords. Normally, a simple restore of the device means you can set it again after.

http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1212

WhatsApp deleted history is saved on the phone for 7 days. Weird coincidence, huh?

WhatsApp password forgotten, phone accessing internet at 1:52 am and three times for over 1 minute immediately after killer shot Reeva.

Then that phone goes missing, and killer can't recall WhatsApp password.

 

[Lyra500]

I hope Nel gives hime the "third degree" like Roux did to the Prosecution Witnesses. Am I right in thinking this neighbour is a friend of OP's (though I don't know from where I dragged that up). Isn't he the guy who lent OP the ladders?

There is a neighbour named Christo Menelaou. I believe he is being called to support OPs version of events. I have seen him described as OP's 'best pal ' and they seem to have been part of the same group of friends. I believe Menelaou took the last photos of OP and Reeva together before she was killed.

The link below is the the front page of You magazine where Mr Menelaou chose to 'reveal all' just a couple of months after the shooting. So, either he's an emotional idiot or yet another person in OPs circle of friends with apparent sociopathic tendencies and no clue about appropriate ways to behave.

http://mediaslutza.com/2013/04/26/you-2-may-2013/

 

[Viper]

I was writing about the butt dial possibility a few days ago. What got me thinking about it was OP's call to his voice mail. At first I thought he could have been calling his voice mail because he was on the phone calling so many people between 3:18 and 3:55 that he may have had an incoming call from someone that he only left a voice message for.

03:18:45 – GPRS – 75 seconds

03:19:03 – Outgoing call to 2251 (Johan Stander) – 24 seconds

03:20:02 – GPRS – 79 seconds

03:20:05 – Outgoing call to 082911 (ambulance service) – 66 seconds

03:21:22 – GPRS – 61 seconds

03:21:33 – Outgoing call to 6797 (Baba, security) – 9 seconds

03:21:47 – Outgoing call to 121 (voicemail) – 7 seconds

03:22:05 – Incoming call from 6797 (Baba, security)

03:55:02 – Outgoing call to 8888 (Justin Devaris) – 123 seconds

Then during trial it was thought the voice mail call was a mistake.

I think 7 seconds is a long time to listen to a "mistake" call. If you look at your phone and count it out, it is long! Especially when you have other calls to make.

His use of the phone during those crucial moments is hard to fit in with the timeline of his carrying her, Reeva still being alive, and OP trying to save her at the bottom of the stairs when Dr. Stipp came in. Dr. Stipp's arrival came after all those phone calls. That whole time period is mush.

If he couldn't speak to Baba OP had already spoken to Stander and then when Baba did call back Oscar could speak again and told him things were OK. That is why I called the Baba phone call a butt dial, OP did not mean to call him.

BIB Indeed Danta, I agree! Seven (7) seconds is a very long period of time, and I did count it out, waiting in between the count 1 -2 -3 -4 -5 -6 -7 -...

I use an iPhone and have occasionally hit the wrong spot and redialed a number by mistake. When I did accidentally hit callback I immediately recognized that and disconnected; it shows up in my call history as "call cancelled." So OP did call someone or did go in to his voicemail intentionally, IMO.

On the iPhone keypad to the left of the "Call" button is a button that is used to "Create a new contact" out of the number that you are dialing, that is not the "Voicemail" button; the Voicemail icon is tiny; it is not on the phone keypad, it is in the very bottom right corner of the screen, and it would be very hard to hit it accidentally, and if you did it just pulls up your voicemails in a page, it does not play them, that takes another step.

Here are the instructions for accessing voicemail from Apple:
Quote:
Call voicemail
To call your voicemail and retrieve messages, follow these steps:

From the Home screen, tap the Phone icon.
Tap the Keypad tab.
Tap and hold 1 or dial 123 and tap the green Phone icon to call.

 

[steveml]

There is a neighbour named Christo Menelaou. I believe he is being called to support OPs version of events. I have seen him described as OP's 'best pal ' and they seem to have been part of the same group of friends. I believe Menelaou took the last photos of OP and Reeva together before she was killed.

The link below is the the front page of You magazine where Mr Menelaou chose to 'reveal all' just a couple of months after the shooting. So, either he's an emotional idiot or yet another person in OPs circle of friends with apparent sociopathic tendencies and no clue about appropriate ways to behave.

http://mediaslutza.com/2013/04/26/you-2-may-2013/

You can read the full article here if you've got a PDF reader...

https://media.otd.co.za/Pdf.ashx?id=93728&dl=true&src=false‎


:smile:

 

[nastasya]

I disagree, even with a history of healthy or normal relationships, a later relationship can become highly dysfunctional.

Reeva seemed intent on discussing and addressing those developing issues with Oscar according to her texts, imo.

Yes, and more importantly, it's ridiculous to conclude killer had a history of healthy relationships based on one tweet from one ex who dated him "on and off."

 

[Lyra500]

No, I would guess it is Mr Nhlengthwa, who lives next door and who called security that night. I don't know for sure, but assume that it was his house that had lights on.

The neighbour who is OP's friend, who gave a magazine interview (Christo Menelaou) doesn't live next door to OP according to the plan of the estate posted earlier. The other ndns are called Motshuane.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/162790733/What-did-Oscar-Pistorius’-neighbours-hear

Ah. I must have got the wrong end of the stick then. I am pretty sure i saw a post on another forum where someone suggested that it was Menelaou who was the neighbour testifying to support OPs version of events.

 

[soozieqtips]

The trouble with Moller ascertaining what's relevant and what's not about the messages is that he's a mobile phone expert, not a psychologist or relationship expert. There could be other incriminating messages that he dismissed as insignificant, but which might tell a fuller story of the dynamics between OP and Reeva.

And steveml - I don't think he'd be done for perjury if there were other similar messages on there that he ignored, perhaps because he thought they weren't as pertinent as the ones he highlighted. Why do you say he can be done for perjury when his expertise is in mobile phones, and not in analysing relationship dynamics?

 

[soozieqtips]

Yes, and more importantly, it's ridiculous to conclude killer had a history of healthy relationships based on one tweet from one ex who dated him "on and off."

And even more ridiculous when you put Sam Taylor into the equation. If OP screaming at his partner and her friends was 'healthy', I wouldn't want to see 'unhealthy'. Oh wait, but I did. He shot Reeva dead.

 

[Zinn]

So now the killer was able to speak and scream like a man and a woman (at the same time), call and speak to Stander, call and speak to Netcare, but suddenly lost his ability to speak to Baba?

Why do you think he lost his ability to speak so quickly, but then amazingly regained in 30 seconds later well enough to tell Baba, "Everything's ok?"

The killer shot and killed Reeva, called Stander but then did not summon police, called Netcare but then did not summon an ambulance, and then told security everything is ok.

Perhaps OP initiated the call to Baba after the security truck pulled up and parked in front of his house. Perhaps OP wanted to tell Baba everything was fine because he didn't want security involved and hoped the truck would drive away. I thought Baba said the first call was when OP said everything was fine, but Baba didn't believe everything was fine because he heard OP crying. Baba wanted OP to come downstairs to confirm everything was fine. The second call was just OP crying.

I think the butt dial theory was based on how voice mail works on an iphone. When retrieving a voice mail message, it's easy to accidentally call the person who left the voice mail. It may be considered a shortcut but I consider it a design flaw.

As always, all of the above is just my opinion.

 

[kittychi]

I'm quite interested in the ladders .. in his bail application he says: "There are no burglar bars across the bathroom window and I knew that contractors who worked at my house had left the ladders outside."


So, going by that he says it's ladders which were left by contractors, and yet it now appears someone lent him the ladders? .. what type of contractors were these and what type of work were they doing, because I don't know about anyone else, but if ever I have had a contractor in to do any work on the outside of my house that requires a ladder, they bring their own ladders with them.

Strangely enough, he doesn't even mention the ladders in his Plea Explanation .. which is odd, considering how important he seemed to think they were at the time, when his imaginary intruder got into the house through the bathroom window.

I know some ladders were found outside, bu I personally think he has concocted a bit of a story around them (did he even have contractors working on his house at the time?), and then decided to leave it out in his later document.

This still gets me...in the moment that terror rushed over him, he remembered there were ladders outside, but didn't remember that a woman was spending the night in his bed.

 

[nastasya]

BIB Indeed Danta, I agree! Seven (7) seconds is a very long period of time, and I did count it out, waiting in between the count 1 -2 -3 -4 -5 -6 -7 -...

I use an iPhone and have occasionally hit the wrong spot and redialed a number by mistake. When I did accidentally hit callback I immediately recognized that and disconnected; it shows up in my call history as "call cancelled." So OP did call someone or did go in to his voicemail intentionally, IMO.

On the iPhone keypad to the left of the "Call" button is a button that is used to "Create a new contact" out of the number that you are dialing, that is not the "Voicemail" button; the Voicemail icon is tiny; it is not on the phone keypad, it is in the very bottom right corner of the screen, and it would be very hard to hit it accidentally, and if you did it just pulls up your voicemails in a page, it does not play them, that takes another step.

Here are the instructions for accessing voicemail from Apple:
Quote:
Call voicemail
To call your voicemail and retrieve messages, follow these steps:

From the Home screen, tap the Phone icon.
Tap the Keypad tab.
Tap and hold 1 or dial 123 and tap the green Phone icon to call.

WhatsApp is an internet based texting and voicemail service.

Killer could have been told to check his voice mail by somebody who just sent a WhatsApp voice message. The GPRS times are in line with WhatsApp voice messages. Since all are roughly the same duration, first access could be WhatsApp receiving a message and downloading it to phone. Next two accesses could be killer listening to messages or sending message back.

WhatsApp is noted for it's use by cheating spouses, etc., because it leaves no trail on a phone bill like text messaging, history auto-deletes, and even deleted messages are permanently unrecoverable after 7 days.

 

[steveml]

Well, no .. because what he actually said was that there were 4 conversations, not messages, so there could be a message from one of those conversations which we have not seen yet but which could well come up in court as evidence.

You can't extract a message from a conversation, and declare it's not part of a conversation

There's no point me discussing this one further...

...movin' on.

:smile:

 

[Cherwell]

Ah. I must have got the wrong end of the stick then. I am pretty sure i saw a post on another forum where someone suggested that it was Menelaou who was the neighbour testifying to support OPs version of events.

He's a close neighbour, I think, but not next door. Assuming the plan posted earlier is correct.

 

[nastasya]

"The defence has questioned Stipp’s memory in this regard, saying Pistorius would testify that a light was not working at the time."

Why do we need OP to testify that the light switch wasn't working? Couldn't the police just flip the light switch and confirm whether it was working or not? Why do we need to hear OP's testimony on this when it could be fabricated.

Maybe killer will testify that's why he ran back upstairs - he changed the light bulb.

It's about as probably as everything else killer has tried to explain what witnesses saw and heard.

 

[Interested Bystander]

Maybe killer will testify that's why he ran back upstairs - he changed the light bulb.

It's about as probably as everything else killer has tried to explain what witnesses saw and heard.

Did he mean the toilet cubicle light?

 

[Viper]

The trouble with Moller ascertaining what's relevant and what's not about the messages is that he's a mobile phone expert, not a psychologist or relationship expert. There could be other incriminating messages that he dismissed as insignificant, but which might tell a fuller story of the dynamics between OP and Reeva.

And steveml - I don't think he'd be done for perjury if there were other similar messages on there that he ignored, perhaps because he thought they weren't as pertinent as the ones he highlighted. Why do you say he can be done for perjury when his expertise is in mobile phones, and not in analysing relationship dynamics?

SMS text messages recovered from the PHONE are one specific thing. WhatsApp data is one specific thing. OPs browser history is one specific thing. Etc, etc, etc... Different bundles of Evidence so it is important to nail down exactly which bundle Moller was testifying about, wouldn't you agree? :smile:

 

[Cherwell]

You can read the full article here if you've got a PDF reader...

https://media.otd.co.za/Pdf.ashx?id=93728&dl=true&src=false‎

As it's a preview, it's not quite complete, unfortunately. Can't tell how much more there is.

 

[Viper]

I thought it was significant, that tabling all that electronic stuff, Nel made a long and concrete point with Judge Masipa that the defence had received each and every item of data and apparatus back and Roux, after a bit of huffing , stipulated that, yes. he had received everything.

BIB Indeed!

 

[Interested Bystander]

Actually it's OP's last sentence that raises the most curiosity for me, "grateful for everything"? As for the ladder, perhaps it was supposed to have been left under the bathroom window and not under the broken window, who knows... ?

Grateful for looking after the house when it was/is empty?? Grateful for providing reinforcing OP's alibi?? We shall never know.