Thanks for this. I find it hard to believe that someone can have (relatively) normal relationships for years and years, then after three months with one girl decide, "this one has to go."
Trial Discussion weekend Thread #18
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UK UK - Alistair Wilson, 30, murdered at home, Nairn, Scotland, 28 Nov 2004- Latest: Professor Moriarty
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Thanks for this. I find it hard to believe that someone can have (relatively) normal relationships for years and years, then after three months with one girl decide, "this one has to go."
Johan Standers actions demonstrate to me that he was very keen to be on the scene before anyone else, why did he not call an ambulance when oscar claims he phoned him specifically to do that?.
Notice what baba says Stander told him when they were outside Oscar's house 'GO' and call ambulance and police, in other words don't come inside, it's all very odd.
Notice what baba says Stander told him when they were outside Oscar's house 'GO' and call ambulance and police, in other words don't come inside, it's all very odd.
steveml
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So could the information regarding OP forgetting his phone password have all been media spin?
It appears that the phone wasn't locked at all. The password he couldn't remember was for his iTunes account.
Maybe the deliberate attempt to mislead was because he had a bad taste in music...
http://www.enca.com/south-africa/exclusive-enca-gains-access-oscars-itunes-account
It appears that the phone wasn't locked at all. The password he couldn't remember was for his iTunes account.
Maybe the deliberate attempt to mislead was because he had a bad taste in music...
http://www.enca.com/south-africa/exclusive-enca-gains-access-oscars-itunes-account
Interested Bystander
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I don't think OP decided RS "had to go" in the sense of ending the relationship. I lean more to the view that he idolised RS and feared losing her through his poor behaviour. I think there was a furious row during which RS probably threatened the end of the relationship and in his fury the shooting incident took place. A trigger happy young man who seemed to have little or no control over his temper. However, I do feel, that having shot once, he couldn't let her live to tell the story. Hence the three extra shots.
More evidence of police bias and dishonesty. The more I read the more I'm wondering if all the misleading and incorrect information that has been reported in the media is simply an attempt to taint the public against OP and bolster their claims. We already know they did that with the reports that OP used the cricket bat to bash RS's head.
Interested Bystander
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I read yesterday that Apple only provided the information from his phone after the trial had started. The IT guy then would have to work it up into a document on some software he used. It could have taken days. Some us of wondered when Nel suddenly decided not to call many more witnesses that he was in receipt of case winning evidence. Maybe he feels the phone evidence is enough. I note he entered all the calls into evidence. I think there is a good chance we have more to hear from the WhatsApp messages as the IT guy indicated the arguments contained many lines of text which was different from their normal communications that were single line messages. I think one very important comment from RS (for the Prosecution) was that she was scared of him. MOO
I can't see any prosecutor thinking text messages alone are enough to make a case for premeditation, especially texts so vague and which contain nothing super incriminating.
steveml
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It's not uncommon MeeBee. Headlines sell stories.
It's the sneaky way they do it that bugs me. They leak information by just mentioning a phone password, everyone presumes it's the main one, and more negative public opinion is generated in an instant. It worked though I guess.
When I heard he'd forgotten his iPhone password I thought nah, that's just a dumb thing to say, there's got to be something else as you use your phone every day.
Interested Bystander
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I think the premeditation element is that he shot 4 times. He could have stopped after the first. To continue shooting could indicate the extra shots were intentional. I don't think the messages have any bearing on the premeditation charge.
The messages IMO indicated real problems with how she felt about their relationship and that she was scared of him. They show there was an escalating level of emotional abuse on his part and they all occurred in the last three weeks before her demise.
I know you disagree about what constitutes emotional abuse but I think you are in the minority there. I would have been out of that relationship very quickly indeed.
The messages IMO confirm his easy to anger mindset, his selfishness and his his dangerous attitude with respect to use of guns.
:floorlaugh::floorlaugh:
And I don't think anything to bolster their case against OP would be suddenly dropped once they read these messages. Sorry, I don't. All they show is OP and RS argued, they had their disagreements, OP got moody sometimes, they made up, they moved on. If there were any allusions to physical violence, then I'd get it. If there was any evidence that OP planned the murder of RS, then I'd agree. But these messages alone...no.
And I don't think I've ever said what "constitutes emotional abuse" and I'd appreciate it if you didn't speak for me. What I've said is it's impossible to glean, from these four text conversations alone, what was going on in their relationsip or what actually occurred to prompt these arguments. You just can't tell one way or another. And I don't think saying that means I don't understand abuse or that I'm insensitive. It's the truth. I'd been emotionally abused all my life by my parents and by an ex. It wasn't until I met my husband that I finally knew a life without it. I get abuse. Trust me.
We disagree on what the texts show and that's fine. Moving on.
Is she the one that was tormenting RS just before that Valentine's?
http://www.2oceansvibe.com/2013/02/22/what-the-heck-is-going-on-here-tweets-express-sympathy-for-reeva-steenkamp-days-before-her-death/
No one knows who she is.
Interested Bystander
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I will move on in a moment but I think the messages as far as the Defence is concerned confirms that there were real problems in their relationship and that RS was frightened of him. I don't understand, if you have suffered emotional abuse, how you feel he was just bad tempered at times. His picking on her and telling her to change her ways, his "offness" and his complete disregard (at the time) for her feelings is very telling. These are all signs of the start of emotional abuse. Abusers nearly always apologise profusely and then do it again but the abuse worsens with time.
Having been abused yourself, I would have thought these you would recognise these danger signals. Perhaps your abuse was so bad that the OP/RS situation, for you, seems nothing. I think what is very important with these messages is how they escalated towards the ending of her life and that she was, at times, scared of him.
My point with respect to you not agreeing that his attitude "constitutes emotional abuse" is that you have endlessly commented that you thought their arguments were nothing more than tiffs that were resolved. To me and I am sure many others that indicates you do not think his attitude consistutes emotional abuse and above you have iterated your same feelings.
Definition - Constitutes = establishes. I think nitpicking is unnecessary in our posts it devalues otherwise intelligent arguments.
Now I will move on
I already have. My opinion hasn't and won't change. Thanks. :seeya:
Again with accusing the prosecution team.... I ask, who stands more to gain if it appears that the police/prosecution "leaked" stuff?
Just like so many of those "leaked" pics that Sky News had that the police got a dressing down for, heck it wasn't even the same bathroom they showed(note OP's doesn't have a sink in it) and the rest were obviously taken the second day when the defense were there too.
When it comes right down to it I wouldn't be surprised if it was OP's "team" who had made that offer for the pics of the door to get a heads up for the bail hearing. People with money think they can buy their way out of anything and unfortunately that's all too often true.
As for the watches, people keep accusing the police for those but there were so many people there that day(not even counting the gardener and housekeeper) that shouldn't have been but had been "invited" to come to the crime scene by OP, friends and family that any one of them could have easily walked off with one, just like they did with the cell phone. You have to admit that all the confusion with everyone there and a watch going missing in the midst of it, the body having been moved, evidence being compromised etc certainly didn't hurt OP's case at all!
So seriously, is there proof that would stand up to the judge's criteria for these accusations against the prosecution and/or law enforcement, or is this yet more spin doctoring for the other side?
Insp.Dots
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Such a shame Botha is getting to testify 1st. Surely just so Oscar can match his testimony and evidence. A fresher, secure template to work from.
Accused is MEANT to go 1st in SA law. Grrr.
People will then have Botha's testimony uppermost in their minds. And with Oscar's obvs responses/answers matching that, they're hoping he'll definitely appear innocent
On the other hand. Botha going first and reporting on Autopsy, will just remind everyone of the horrific injuries caused by OP himself.
Interesting to note, whilst going over reports, OP seems to be one of those who have a very high vomit/gag reflex. He regularly vomit s during intense or stressful situations. So....be ready for the re-appearance of the bucket!
Yea, like he couldn't have changed his password .... and then back again because it would make the police look bad.:facepalm:
This is interesting but confusing for me at the same time because I am not that tech savvy .My son was saying yesterday his iTunes password gives access to his apple email's iCloud
I have no idea whether this is true . Do any of you guys have email through iTunes and apple account ? This is quite beyond me lol
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