Trial Discussion weekend Thread #24

[zwiebel]

Good question. I don't recall any of this being discussed in court.

I recall a brief mention - may have been Friday. Just that OP was taken to a clinic/hospital first, and tests were carried out. No mention of results though.

 

[soozieqtips]

I recall a brief mention - may have been Friday. Just that OP was taken to a clinic/hospital first, and tests were carried out. No mention of results though.

Ahhh, thanks. No mention of results. Another poster said the results showed nothing, so I wondered where that information came from. But it was quite a few hours before he went to hospital, enough time for some alcohol to have gone through his system already.

 

[shane13]

Have these blood tests you said he had been presented in court as evidence?

It's been referred to twice but you haven't answered.

I had a year ago considered that alcohol at the meal could have been in play. But now I do recall seeing somewhere that his blood tests yielded zero for alcohol and drugs (tested).

 

[Val1]

BIB - i don't think that is correct. OP was allowed back into his house when all of his bail conditions were overturned in March last year.



You can read the article here: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/mar/28/oscar-pistorius-athletics-bail-conditions

Thanks, I had forgotten they'd changed the bail conditions, I guess I fell into the rabbit hole when OP stated he'd never been back... :scared:

 

[james83]

Here's another thing that i have wondered for a while, i've seen a lot of people talk about the theory that Reeva broke up with Oscar on the evening of 13th Feb and that's what lead to her death, from a personal opinion i believe if there was a brake up it is much more likely that it would have been Oscar Breaking up with Reeva.

Reasons being there attitude's regarding Valentine's day, Reeva tweeted these tweets on the 13th

Reeva Steenkamp ‏@reevasteenkamp 13 Feb 2013
What do you have up your sleeve for your love tomorrow??? #getexcited #ValentinesDay

Reeva Steenkamp ‏@reevasteenkamp 13 Feb 2013
@gossig That sounds amazing! Wow that's what it's all about! It should be a day of love for everyone may it be blessed!

Where as on the stand a few days back Oscar said he and Reeva had agreed not to make a big thing of valentine's day, this seem's strange when you look at Reeva's tweets.

Also Consider the fact that Reeva had brought Oscar a gift where as Oscar hadn't bought her anything, i know he made some claims about plans to take her to a jewellery shop on the 14th but that felt a bit added on to me.

Add to this the evidence from the whatsapp messages where it seems Oscar gets irritated by certain thing's Reeva does, and for me it all suggests Reeva was more in to Oscar than vice versa, and it is much more likely that it would be him who ended the relationship that night than her.

JMO.

 

[TorisMom003]

Also if OP had some drinks with dinner around 7 pm, then I doubt that come 4 or so AM that they would still show up in a test.

 

[molly333]

Fact is: Unfortunately, in the real world, random fights can and do escalate to death. Add a little alcohol to the rage plus a nearby loaded semi-auto. Happens, really.

Give me an example--between a man and a woman who are in relationship with each other.

 

[Chelly]

They do. Between couples and between strangers. This happens all the time all over the world. At movie theaters (texting murder), at sporting events, and between couples (and even just room mates and friends) where one has extreme anger and impulse control issues.

I'd wager more domestic abuse acts are inflicted over 'random issues' than 'real' issues such as infidelity or divorce papers. They usually start with stupid things like Who were you on the phone with? Why weren't you home when you said you would be? What did you mean by that? Why are you dressed like a ? You sure were touching that guy at the party an awful lot!

Then the victim unwittingly 'incites' their anger further (from the abuser's POV) by either standing up for themselves, trying to leave, or just not tap dancing fast enough.

Then the abuser loses their temper and in many some instances, it ends in the death of the victim.

I'd add supporting links but they are sadly to numerous to count and very easy to find.

"thanks" wasn't enough.
Senseless murder is nearly an epidemic.

 

[Val1]

Ahhh, thanks. No mention of results. Another poster said the results showed nothing, so I wondered where that information came from. But it was quite a few hours before he went to hospital, enough time for some alcohol to have gone through his system already.

Until we see the medical reports on what OP was tested for and the results, we know nothing.

 

[TorisMom003]

Give me an example--between a man and a woman who are in relationship with each other.

Here ya go.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...mmer-wielding-madman-queens-article-1.1594952

 

[Viper]

Wasn't there testimony that the porn sites were accessed around 6:30 p.m., which is when OP claims RS was cooking his dinner? IIRC he said he came home and went upstairs to change clothes while RS was in the kitchen fixing a chicken stir-fry. Maybe he watched porn as a "stress reliever" after his terrible no-good very-bad day.

BIB. Roux asked OP three times about the porn. Roux was giving OP an opportunity to get it out to the court and explain it as gently as he could. But after three attempts and OP refusing to open up about it Roux said that he would get back to it. Roux used the sequence of OPs movements when he got home to open the door for the 6:30 porn viewing, he never used the word porn.

Now something is really wrong here! His attorney had discussed what his testimony was to be, and yet OP could not bring himself to disclose he was watching a little porn. There may be something much more embarrassing about the porn that we do not know about.

 

[Chelly]

Give me an example--between a man and a woman who are in relationship with each other.

are you serious?
do you read newspapers?
Well, I could tell you about the murder of my grandmother by my grandfather. He murdered her during an argument that began over the subject or snoring. I bet you are going to ask me for a link.:banghead:

 

[shane13]

Also if OP had some drinks with dinner around 7 pm, then I doubt that come 4 or so AM that they would still show up in a test.

Now this is true and I will detail.
1. Dinner I believe was at circa 8:30
2. I have not seen exact time of arrest with certainty. Menelao I beleive said 11 AM. Other sources say earlier.
3. He was taken straightaway for medical testing.
4. You are right in that if it is some 12 hours later, some of the alcohol would have been metabolized or excreted.
5. But not all. The zero result implies he did not have any, I believe.

 

[Val1]

Quote:
Originally Posted by molly333 View Post
Next witness--Estelle? Lives in Silverwoods. Wakes up at 2am. Heard sounds. People talking in loud voices. [sounded like] A fight. Lasted about an hour. Couldn't hear what people were saying. Couldn't understand the language. She was irritated, keeping her awake. Put a pillow on her head. Looked out at some point, couldn't see anything. About 3am she heard 4 gunshots. sounded like gunshots. Bang. Bang. After the four sounds, total silence. Husband woke up. Looked out window. Couldn't see anything. Went back to bed. Then heard a commotion. Husband called security. Next heard somebody was crying out loud. Husband said it was Oscar. Seemed like a woman's voice to her.

Later finds out from security that Oscar shot his friend.


I need a translator for the translator.

Now it sounds like she only heard one voice in the fight?

Yes, it's very hard to determine just what some of the witnesses meant, to the point that at least one of them gave up and started giving their testimony in English because the translation just wasn't accurate.

She did hear only one voice

BBM - Hmm, back to the interpreter, people is plural, correct? Would not crying, after the bang sounds, then be different than screaming?

 

[Gryffindor]

I had a year ago considered that alcohol at the meal could have been in play. But now I do recall seeing somewhere that his blood tests yielded zero for alcohol and drugs (tested).

That's right.

 

[Chelly]

BIB. Roux asked OP three times about the porn. Roux was giving OP an opportunity to get it out to the court and explain it as gently as he could. But after three attempts and OP refusing to open up about it Roux said that he would get back to it. Roux used the sequence of OPs movements when he got home to open the door for the 6:30 porn viewing, he never used the word porn.

Now something is really wrong here! His attorney had discussed what his testimony was to be, and yet OP could not bring himself to disclose he was watching a little porn. There may be something much more embarrassing about the porn that we do not know about.

Good recall.
Do you think Reeva may have objected to that porn viewing.....just a smidgen?

 

[Val1]

asanque.

Of the 2 witnesses who heard the initial banging, they both seemed very reliable and Annette Stipp was awake prior to the noise. It could be that it was the banging that woke the other witnesses up.

The Defence will call several witnesses who claim they heard only the screams of a man. One of these witnesses (forgive me, I forget his name presently) will claim that his wife thought she heard a woman screaming but that he knew Oscar and he assured her that it was Oscar screaming. So, this demonstrates that Oscar was screaming and that his screams sounded like those of a woman.

Yes, that's the couple with the interpreter that some thought was misinterpreting some of the words, in fact, wasn't it Mrs. Stipp that switched to English so the words would be more accurate in what she testified to? Getting back to the woman whose husband said he thought it was OP and not a woman, there was some dispute over what his wife called "crying" and what the defense keeps referring to as screaming.

 

[TorisMom003]

Laci Peterson is another woman killed by her partner.

Susan Powell, Kathleen Savio, etc.

I think it is utterly ridiculous to ask for an example of a woman killed by her boyfriend/husband/partner. This is Websleuths for the love of all things good. There are PLENTY of examples here if one wants to look.

The point is it happens. It happens every single day. Men killing women, women killing men, men killing children, women killing children. Every single day it happens. There is not a good motive/excuse for it either the majority of the time. Alcohol involved, an argument, a child wetting the bed, etc.

MOO

 

[Lyra500]

Thanks, I had forgotten they'd changed the bail conditions, I guess I fell into the rabbit hole when OP stated he'd never been back... :scared:

No probs. I find things start to go wonky the moment you take anything OP says at face value or rely on it as fact without some independent corroboration.

 

[shane13]

The one thing people should stop wasting time about is the absurdity that they were about to break up. Find Reeva's joyous tweet about spending VDay with your boo or love etc. The fact that this was the 2nd or 3rd day in a row of her sleeping over. And even Cecil Myers said it "may have been love but not a great love" [or words to that effect.] . Reeva got Cecil Myers (who owns a print co.) to make up that photo item as a VD gift. OP, it seems did not really have a gift for her. OP's bud and worker, Menelao has said that OP told him he loved her or she was "a keeper" early on.

I think it's quite absurd (and evidence-free) to say one or the other was going to break up with the other that night. Just because one killed the other, you can't "work it backwards" and claim that a planned break-up had anything to do with this.