Trial Discussion weekend Thread #24

[asanque]

It takes him seconds to put them on.
By his own admission he only hit the door 3 times with the bat.

Yep, my thoughts as well.

Its the only missing piece of the puzzle left for me.

I'm surprised Dr. Stipp didn't mention what time he arrived though.

I'm keen to see what Stander says.

 

[sorrell skye]

Playing the devil's advocate for just a brief moment.

The only troubling matter that remains for me is the timeline from 3:17 a.m. (assuming that was the time of the fatal shots)

We have as evidence that OP called Stander at 3:19 a.m. and Netcare directly afterwards.

I imagine it would take at least 10 minutes to break down the door and bring Reeva downstairs (if we accept the premise he wasn't on his prosthetics). This would have to occur at the same time he was calling a number of people.

We really need to find out what time Stander and Dr. Stipp arrived at the house.

If it was around 3:45 a.m., it still makes sense.

If it was closer to 3:30 a.m., then the 3:17 a.m. fatal shots get more problematic.

OP carried Reeva downstairs AFTER he called Stander and Netcare.

 

[molly333]

I can go along with some of that. It's those doors again though. At a pinch I couldn't rule out the bathroom door making a noise loud enough to travel some distance, as the bathroom window was open. It's the bedroom door that I'd be struggling to believe. This is set much further back in the house, nearer to the patio side. All three bangs were heard by Charl Johnson, he thought these were gunshots, and he lives the furthest away at approx, 177 meters from OP, which is quite some distance. The problem with his testimony is that he claims each set of three were in rapid succession. Quicker than it takes to swing a cricket bat at a door three times.

It's unlikely either Reeva or OP can run that fast.

I saw a CSI re-enactment on youtube that kind of proved that you cannot hear anything further away than 300 feet in that community, and it doesn't become clear until you are 50 feet away, for what it's worth.

 

[asanque]

OP carried Reeva downstairs AFTER he called Stander and Netcare.

Yep, but there are two issues:
1. If Reeva was shot at 3:16/3:17 a.m. by OP, did he call Stander and Netcare BEFORE he broke the door down? Otherwise, really tight timeframe (not impossible) to put on his prosthetics and then break the door down and then call Stander.

2. After the Netcare call it was around 3:25 a.m. If he hadn't yet broken the door down, it leaves a very small window before Stander/Dr. Stipp arrives.

I suspect they would have got there around 3:45 a.m. which makes the above very possible.

 

[jay-jay]

Excellent article and shows OP to be paranoid, but not about his safety - but about how everyone has lied and conspired against him. Couldn't agree more with this sentence:

"Pistorius persisted: “A woman did not scream at any point,” he said.
If didn’t happen from his perspective, it just didn't happen".

I think the fact he's steadfastly refused to concede on even the most obvious things, proves that he's not credible in any way, and when confronted with evidence that he's lying through his teeth, will still not show humility and admit 'Yes, it's possible I had my finger on the trigger'. I'm sure the Judge is keeping notes of his constant refusal to accept responsibility for anything, calling everyone else liars, and the incredulous tale of how he was almost shot at, but unbelievably doesn't recall who he called to pick him up or who took him to collect his car. I'd assume he called a close friend or a family member. Has anyone come forward to corroborate this story?? Thought not.

I don't personally think he is paranoid with regard to people conspiring against him .. I don't believe he thinks they are conspiring against him at all .. it's basically just that he keeps on using things like 'police contamination' in order to make his own version of events stick .. he is using things like that as part of his one big fat lie, he doesn't actually believe that is what they are doing (i.e. conspiring against him). Again, this is all part of the thing where truth is becoming mixed up with fiction, and because we don't really know which bits are true and which bits aren't, we end up trying to find reasons for things which are actually a lie in the first place and don't even really exist, and therefore don't even need analyzing. OP is not paranoid in any way, shape or form, imo .. he isn't paranoid about the threat of intruders or being attacked, because all of his supporting stories on that are made up and he isn't paranoid about people conspiring against him either, because his accusations against those people are only in order to cover up his lies.

 

[DebinGA]

.

Even according to his plea affidavit, 15+ minutes are not accounted for:

"I fired shots at the toilet door and shouted to Reeva to phone the police. She did not respond and I moved backwards out of the bathroom, keeping my eyes on the bathroom entrance. Everything was pitch dark in the bedroom and I was still too scared to switch on a light. Reeva was not responding. When I reached the bed, I realised that Reeva was not in bed. That is when it dawned on me that it could have been Reeva who was in the toilet. I returned to the bathroom calling her name. I tried to open the toilet door but it was locked. I rushed back into the bedroom and opened the sliding door exiting onto the balcony and screamed for help. I put on my prosthetic legs, ran back to the bathroom and tried to kick the toilet door open. I think I must then have turned on the lights. I went back into the bedroom and grabbed my cricket bat to bash open the toilet door."
.

BBM -Using jassy writer's post to make a different point. In a scientific study link posted earlier today about amputees and their balance issues, the study showed that those with below the knee amputations (like OP) depend on their vision to maintain balance significantly more than those with above the knee amputations. That supports the Stipps' testimony of seeing the bathroom light on at the time of the shots. Ditto making unlikely all his other claims of moving around in the "pitch black".

Scientific study link post: Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Trial Discussion weekend Thread #24

"The results demonstrated that in amputees there is an increased dependence on vision for maintenance of the erect posture. Postural sway in patients with below-the-knee amputations was found to be significantly greater than that in those with above-the-knee amputations. Postural sway increased with age; but the visual dependence for the control of postural sway was independent of age." http://jbjs.org/article.aspx?articleid=17545

 

[shane13]

I found a video for you all.

While it is about capturing a prolific South African serial killer/rapist, that’s not why I post it.

It includes Micki Pistorius, Oscar’s aunt who was SAPS first hired profiler of serial killers.
Perhaps more importantly, it also shows (now) Brigadier Gérard Labuschagne PhD, head of SAPS Investigative Psycholgy Div.

Curiously he is the one Oscar referred to when Roux had him on Direct and OP said this officer told him he is a friend of a [Pistorius] family member, and everything was going to be OK. [Or words to that effect.] This was before being taken away from his house.
It is my own personal guess that the family member he refers to would be Micki Pistorius. The video can be graphic in a few places.

Moses Sithole: The South African Strangler - Serial Killer (Crime Documentary) - YouTube

 

[Viper]

I saw a CSI re-enactment on youtube that kind of proved that you cannot hear anything further away than 300 feet in that community, and it doesn't become clear until you are 50 feet away, for what it's worth.

That 5 witnesses that were further than 50 feet away did hear this event kinda proves that the YouTube video was false.

 

[jay-jay]

[snipped]


So...he wanted Reeva dead so he shot her. Then he tried to make it look like he didn't want her dead by breaking the door and rescuing her.
Once rescued she was dead, so he thought he'd again make it look like he was trying to save her. But it was all a cover-up, as he wanted her dead anyway?

Have I got this right? :dunno:

Well actually, although I have picked up along the line of this discussion that you're not being entirely serious with your comment there, you have actually explained there exactly what OP's intent was .. it's obvious that is what he did/was doing.

 

[jay-jay]

Think again. Instant onset rigor mortis:


•Physical exertion just prior to death: If someone dies while engaged in strenuous activity like exercising or struggling against drowning, rigor mortis can set in immediately. This instant onset, sometimes called cadaveric spasm, happens because the person's muscles, at the moment of death, were depleted of oxygen energy and ATP. This is why the victim of a violent attack may still be clutching the attacker's hair or a piece of clothing.

http://health.howstuffworks.com/diseases-conditions/death-dying/rigor-mortis-cause2.htm

Thanks for this ^^^ .. really interesting.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

The jeans in bedroom appears to have the inner side to the outside. Does that mean something?? (I use to pull my pants in a different way.)

 

[james83]

Yep, but there are two issues:
1. If Reeva was shot at 3:16/3:17 a.m. by OP, did he call Stander and Netcare BEFORE he broke the door down? Otherwise, really tight timeframe (not impossible) to put on his prosthetics and then break the door down and then call Stander.

2. After the Netcare call it was around 3:25 a.m. If he hadn't yet broken the door down, it leaves a very small window before Stander/Dr. Stipp arrives.

I suspect they would have got there around 3:45 a.m. which makes the above very possible.

the call to netcare ended at 3:21:11

 

[jay-jay]

Was there a pre-ID trip?

Yes, there was .. while Dr Stipp was there (Stipp was concerned that OP may have been going upstairs to fetch his gun and top himself) but before the paramedics arrived (they are the ones who asked for ID).

I can't remember this being mentioned. If there was such a trip would the prosecution not have dealt with it already?

They haven't quite got to this point yet .. it's coming soon though ..!

 

[nastasya]

That's the very first thing he did Molly. Once he knew Reeva was in there and couldn't open the door, he ran to the balcony and screamed for help.

That's the one of the stupidest things I've ever heard (not you Steve, OP's story).

If my child was injured, I wouldn't yell "help help help" out the window at 3 am.

Even if somebody heard my calls for help, how would there no where I was to help me? Maybe I would pick up the phone and call the police, which OP never did.

 

[shane13]

That 5 witnesses that were further than 50 feet away did hear this event kinda proves that the YouTube video was false.

Yes and some posters here have even cited examples where at certain places they could make out conversation at much further distances.

That is what wave superposition is all about.

You could be very close and the sound waves add up to a node (zero) and you might not hear anything from a very close distance. But also due to this same physics at just the right places you could be quite far away and the waves can add up and you would be able to hear sounds and even conversation.

Sad that for some, TV shows or yts are taken as absolute truth when many have axes to grind, like the absurd video about the batstrikes and gunshots that is so warped in so many ways. (As well as who might have paid for that one.) People could take a physics course, maybe some good ones are even online?

 

[jay-jay]

BIB. Because it means that the duvet was bunched up on the floor while he was bringing in the fans, closing the door the blinds and the curtains, and while he picked up the jeans to cover the LED light; it is at the jeans moment that he hears the bathroom window opening and he drops the jeans to go commando. He had previously stated that the duvet was on the bed and covering Reeva's legs.

OPs story is such carp!

The jeans overlapping the duvet also confirms that the police didn't contaminate the crime scene, like OP is claiming it was because if the police had put the duvet on the floor, then the jeans would be partially under it and not over it.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

Yes, there was .. while Dr Stipp was there (Stipp was concerned that OP may have been going upstairs to fetch his gun and top himself) but before the paramedics arrived (they are the ones who asked for ID).



They haven't quite got to this point yet .. it's coming soon though ..!

I can't remember, did Nel dwell on this when Dr Stipp's was on the stand ?
I know Dr Stipp's said it because I read the other day but can't remember what Nel responded with or whether he asked any further questions .
Dr Stipp's was the first independent witness on the premises after the shooting so his testimony must be very valid .

 

[jay-jay]

I don't know much about this at all...but plastic bags are mentioned at no.25 on this list :- link

Yes, and at No.27 it says 'Use as a body bag' ..!

 

[Gbtaketwo]

The jeans overlapping the duvet also confirms that the police didn't contaminate the crime scene, like OP is claiming it was because if the police had put the duvet on the floor, then the jeans would be partially under it and not over it.

For me this is one of the few things I could give OP the benefit of the doubt on .
Sometimes clothes can fall off a smooth surface long after they have been placed there. It has certainly been the case with some of my possessions over the years .
Not saying I do necessarily believe him just saying reasonable doubt
Just adding here that I have still not figured out exactly what it means yet lol

 

[jassy writer]

As I said, my reasoning for him supposedly rushing out onto the balcony to scream "help help" so soon after the incident is that Reeva screamed it and he knew people would have heard. Thus, it formed part of his "story" so that a scream for help would be accounted for. No other reason to do it.