Trial Discussion weekend Thread #24

[kittychi]

I also would love to know why Oscar needed to have his selective amnesia for the first portion of his trip to the stairs. He says he doesn't remember carrying her from the bathroom to the middle landing, not the top, of the stairs.

You know why he can't remember... Because there is arterial spurt only in that section of the walk and there's a REASON he doesn't want us to know something

He remembers perfectly well exactly how he pulled her out of the bathroom, her head rested on his shoulder, he couldn't lift her, he placed her gently on the bathroom towel/carpet, he asked Stander for help...

BUT... He doesn't remember:

1. The first half of his call to Netcare, what HE told them but he specifically remembers what THEY said to him.

2. Telling Baba "Everything is fine"

3. The first half of his walk with her in his arms, to the middle landing of the stairs

4. Getting plastic bags, rope and/or tape

No, that's not slightly suspicious whatsoever!

Anybody who genuinely thinks he was helping her and wasn't trying to cover something up and/or wait for her to die is simply ignoring HIS evidence and in denial.

I loved LindaNJ7's comment about take Oscar out of the equation and insert some other random person and would we even be pondering this right now (paraphrasing). I think not.

BBM: I believe it is very possible that he minimized her injuries in his call to them if they really advised him to move her.

 

[jassy writer]

Maybe that is why her food did not digest! Because Oscar's head was squashed up against her stomach!

 

[james83]

BBM: I believe it is very possible that he minimized her injuries in his call to them if they really advised him to move her.

My own opinion is he hadn't broke the door down when he called them.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

No, but the point is that the jeans never even got to cover the LED light as far as I am aware .. I'm almost certain OP testified to dropping the jeans on the floor (I don't actually recall him saying that myself, but have read a number of posts here to that effect) .. so, if he dropped them on the floor almost immediately after going to cover the LED light, then at that point he was saying the duvet was on the bed. OP is saying that the police chucked the duvet on the floor in order to incriminate him somehow, but seeing as the jeans (which he himself dropped on the floor) were slightly overlapping the duvet, then there is no way that the policed could've moved the duvet to that position. I'm pretty sure that I haven't explained that very well!

Thanks.
I think Zwiebel thought OP had said that he did put them on but then said he couldn't remember and might have dropped them ,so I think i will need to go through the full testimony again to check . Nel goes back and forth to confuse Op to try and expose where he might be being economical with the truth which kind of gets a little confusing to me as well

 

[lisasalinger]

No, but the point is that the jeans never even got to cover the LED light as far as I am aware .. I'm almost certain OP testified to dropping the jeans on the floor (I don't actually recall him saying that myself, but have read a number of posts here to that effect) .. so, if he dropped them on the floor almost immediately after going to cover the LED light, then at that point he was saying the duvet was on the bed. OP is saying that the police chucked the duvet on the floor in order to incriminate him somehow, but seeing as the jeans (which he himself dropped on the floor) were slightly overlapping the duvet, then there is no way that the policed could've moved the duvet to that position. I'm pretty sure that I haven't explained that very well!

You explained it ok!

That duvet was always on the floor, hence:

1. Reeva never mysteriously got out of bed to pee

2. He didn't "not see her in the pitch black"

3. He was never fiddling with fans and running back and forth over in that area

All are fabrications on HIS behalf. The jeans being on top of the duvet prove the duvet was on the floor that night. But I suppose we can blame it all on the police.

 

[clearskies1]

And also don't forget... Baba testified that Oscar was just standing upstairs and didn't start walking down the stairs with her until he saw them all in the doorway!

Oscar wants to come off like it was Netcare's fault that they didn't arrive, the Stander's fault for not driving her, Dr Stipp's fault for being a crappy doctor.. And he dramatically inserts while crying "I was yelling for Dr. Stipp to come back and help her". Nobody heard that, nobody testified that. Dr. Stipp went to Oscar's house after a shooting on his own free will to help. Do you really think he stood there for two minutes, barely did anything and didn't give a crap? Of course not!

Oscar has proven over and over and over on the stand that he will literally say and do anything, no matter how absurd, to get out of ALL of this.

Why? Because he's a murderer.

BBM: I forgot that part... wow, just wow.
MOO

 

[TorisMom003]

BBM: I forgot that part... wow, just wow.
MOO

Yes, OP yelled for Dr. Stipp to come back and help Reeva as he was running back upstairs for whatever reason. Or maybe it was when he was running back down the stairs. Poor OP, his mind was in a fog that he cant remember exactly when it was that he yelled that but he DID yell that.

And pigs can fly.

 

[K.T]

The Valentine Day gift comment was bothering me so I went back and transcribed them. It’s not hugely important but his verbal cues repeat themselves and it becomes another example of Pistorius’ explanations made to seem authentic and heart-sore, yet…he’s dissembling.

First it was one bracelet, in the next sentence he’d bought her two. He says “I” didn’t have any plans, when it could have been “we” didn’t have any plans. He states they going to drive to Johannesburg and back and have dinner together but he’d first said Steenkamp was not going to stay with him. How can you plan to have a quiet dinner making night in yet Steenkamp was not going to be there?

__________________________

Pistorius: I had bought Reeva a bracelet from a designer that she liked. Ah, earlier in the year. And, um, I hadn’t made plans for the 14th.

Roux: Could you speak up little?

Pistorius: I beg your pardon. I hadn’t made any plans on the 14th, I had a dentist’s appointment on the 14th in the morning. Reeva wasn’t going to stay at my house, our plan were that, um, I meet her in Johannesburg at this jewelry store that I’d got her the bracelet from. And, um, the bracelet had a couple of trinkets or charms on it. There were two bracelets I bought her. And so, um, I said to her, um, we’d both kind of made a thing about not making a big thing about Valentines Day. Um, we were just going to have dinner I think for us I think that was a nice evening, it’s just being alone and being at home making dinner.

Roux: Did she buy you something? Did Reeva buy you something, for Valentines day?

Pistorius: Um, I got home on the early evening of the 13th and um, there was a wrapped present on the kitchen counter. Um, with a card that said Ozzie.

And um, when I walked into the kitchen I made as if I was going to open it. It had red and pink and white wrapping paper, and um, Reeva told me I’m only allowed to open it the next day. So I didn’t open it.

And, um (loooong pause, teary). And on the 8th [only 11 days off her real birthday] of August, last year, on Reeva’s birthday, um, I opened her Valentine’ s gift to me. And it was a photo frame, that she’d got made and it has four photo’s of her and I. And, ah, the card that she’d wrote…

 

[molly333]

I also would love to know why Oscar needed to have his selective amnesia for the first portion of his trip to the stairs. He says he doesn't remember carrying her from the bathroom to the middle landing, not the top, of the stairs.

You know why he can't remember... Because there is arterial spurt only in that section of the walk and there's a REASON he doesn't want us to know something

He remembers perfectly well exactly how he pulled her out of the bathroom, her head rested on his shoulder, he couldn't lift her, he placed her gently on the bathroom towel/carpet, he asked Stander for help...

BUT... He doesn't remember:

1. The first half of his call to Netcare, what HE told them but he specifically remembers what THEY said to him.

2. Telling Baba "Everything is fine"

3. The first half of his walk with her in his arms, to the middle landing of the stairs

4. Getting plastic bags, rope and/or tape

No, that's not slightly suspicious whatsoever!

Anybody who genuinely thinks he was helping her and wasn't trying to cover something up and/or wait for her to die is simply ignoring HIS evidence and in denial.

I loved LindaNJ7's comment about take Oscar out of the equation and insert some other random person and would we even be pondering this right now (paraphrasing). I think not.

There couldn't be any arterial blood if she died instantly per the ME's [pathologist] testimony.

The rest of it might be, "Here's another nice mess you've gotten me into."

 

[ShadyLady]

The open balcony doors wouldn't bother OP while he was awake. Yet he claims to have gone to sleep at 10 pm (or 9 pm depending on which version one believes) leaving the balcony doors open, only to awake at 3 am to close them.

Does this make sense?

AND, what makes NO sense to me is why fully dressed at 3am? OP was in Tshirt and shorts...and Reeva was in shorts too...right?

Why were they both not naked if it was so unbearably hot??

 

[weeeva]

As I said, my reasoning for him supposedly rushing out onto the balcony to scream "help help" so soon after the incident is that Reeva screamed it and he knew people would have heard. Thus, it formed part of his "story" so that a scream for help would be accounted for. No other reason to do it.

Sorry, but I just can't see him having such rational thoughts so quickly after the incident, whether he knew he was shooting at Reeva or not.

 

[TorisMom003]

Wait a second now. OP is talking with Mr. Nel about the highway gun shot incident. Mr. Nel calls OP out on making the story up or otherwise he would remember who he called, who came and got him, etc. OP says that he would gladly tell who he called if he could remember it because it would collaborate his story.

Full Definition of COLLABORATE


1: to work jointly with others or together especially in an intellectual endeavor


2: to cooperate with or willingly assist an enemy of one's country and especially an occupying force


3: to cooperate with an agency or instrumentality with which one is not immediately connected

 

[james83]

Someone give a good answer to this question, Oscar gets off the phone to netcare and is told to bring her in at 3:21:11, so why didn't he do it?, why did he not pick her up put her in his car and go?, the answer is he couldn't afford for her to live.

 

[soozieqtips]

K.T - this... from your link...

“Let’s look broadly, basically acts of aggression in the past tend to escalate, with certain offenders. To put it basically there’s always a history. When one looks at where Oscar sits today, it’s not his first act of aggression. There is always a history. Not where he is actually killed someone but other incidents.

This history in a lot of cases ultimately culminates in a crime like murder, primarily
because it’s [the early transgressions] never been punished."

... is so true. So many posters keep insisting that there was nothing in OP's past to suggest he could have suddenly become a murderer, referring to him as just 'moody' or 'pouty' etc, when he did indeed have a history of aggression, and a history of never being held to account.

He didn't take kindly to being disrespected either (police touching his gun sent him nuts). Reeva not following his instructions about bringing in the fans wouldn't have gone down well, I bet.

 

[lisasalinger]

The Valentine Day gift comment was bothering me so I went back and transcribed them. It’s not hugely important but his verbal cues repeat themselves and it becomes another example of Pistorius’ explanations made to seem authentic and heart-sore, yet…he’s dissembling.

First it was one bracelet, in the next sentence he’d bought her two. He says “I” didn’t have any plans, when it could have been “we” didn’t have any plans. He states they going to drive to Johannesburg and back and have dinner together but he’d first said Steenkamp was not going to stay with him. How can you plan to have a quiet dinner making night in yet Steenkamp was not going to be there?

__________________________

Pistorius: I had bought Reeva a bracelet from a designer that she liked. Ah, earlier in the year. And, um, I hadn’t made plans for the 14th.

Roux: Could you speak up little?

Pistorius: I beg your pardon. I hadn’t made any plans on the 14th, I had a dentist’s appointment on the 14th in the morning. Reeva wasn’t going to stay at my house, our plan were that, um, I meet her in Johannesburg at this jewelry store that I’d got her the bracelet from. And, um, the bracelet had a couple of trinkets or charms on it. There were two bracelets I bought her. And so, um, I said to her, um, we’d both kind of made a thing about not making a big thing about Valentines Day. Um, we were just going to have dinner I think for us I think that was a nice evening, it’s just being alone and being at home making dinner.

Roux: Did she buy you something? Did Reeva buy you something, for Valentines day?

Pistorius: Um, I got home on the early evening of the 13th and um, there was a wrapped present on the kitchen counter. Um, with a card that said Ozzie.

And um, when I walked into the kitchen I made as if I was going to open it. It had red and pink and white wrapping paper, and um, Reeva told me I’m only allowed to open it the next day. So I didn’t open it.

And, um (loooong pause, teary). And on the 8th [only 11 days off her real birthday] of August, last year, on Reeva’s birthday, um, I opened her Valentine’ s gift to me. And it was a photo frame, that she’d got made and it has four photo’s of her and I. And, ah, the card that she’d wrote…

When I heard this part of the testimony, I rewound and listened to it about 8 different times thinking I was high.

That might go in his top 10 list of absurdly bad and false explanations during this trial!!

 

[TorisMom003]

What I'm hearing in OP's testimony......blahblahblah LIE blahblah LIE blahblahblahblah LIE

 

[ShadyLady]

There couldn't be any arterial blood if she died instantly per the ME's [pathologist] testimony.

The rest of it might be, "Here's another nice mess you've gotten me into."

I wish they had done a blood analysis....I wonder if we still haven't figured out the sequence of events. It was odd there was so much blood downstairs and spatter on couch.....and on duvet....

 

[lisasalinger]

The Valentine Day gift comment was bothering me so I went back and transcribed them. It’s not hugely important but his verbal cues repeat themselves and it becomes another example of Pistorius’ explanations made to seem authentic and heart-sore, yet…he’s dissembling.

First it was one bracelet, in the next sentence he’d bought her two. He says “I” didn’t have any plans, when it could have been “we” didn’t have any plans. He states they going to drive to Johannesburg and back and have dinner together but he’d first said Steenkamp was not going to stay with him. How can you plan to have a quiet dinner making night in yet Steenkamp was not going to be there?

__________________________

Pistorius: I had bought Reeva a bracelet from a designer that she liked. Ah, earlier in the year. And, um, I hadn’t made plans for the 14th.

Roux: Could you speak up little?

Pistorius: I beg your pardon. I hadn’t made any plans on the 14th, I had a dentist’s appointment on the 14th in the morning. Reeva wasn’t going to stay at my house, our plan were that, um, I meet her in Johannesburg at this jewelry store that I’d got her the bracelet from. And, um, the bracelet had a couple of trinkets or charms on it. There were two bracelets I bought her. And so, um, I said to her, um, we’d both kind of made a thing about not making a big thing about Valentines Day. Um, we were just going to have dinner I think for us I think that was a nice evening, it’s just being alone and being at home making dinner.

Roux: Did she buy you something? Did Reeva buy you something, for Valentines day?

Pistorius: Um, I got home on the early evening of the 13th and um, there was a wrapped present on the kitchen counter. Um, with a card that said Ozzie.

And um, when I walked into the kitchen I made as if I was going to open it. It had red and pink and white wrapping paper, and um, Reeva told me I’m only allowed to open it the next day. So I didn’t open it.

And, um (loooong pause, teary). And on the 8th [only 11 days off her real birthday] of August, last year, on Reeva’s birthday, um, I opened her Valentine’ s gift to me. And it was a photo frame, that she’d got made and it has four photo’s of her and I. And, ah, the card that she’d wrote…

And did you notice he had ANOTHER dentist appointment on the 14th??

He just had one two days ago when Reeva met Warren.

Cue the dentist in the script....

 

[kittychi]

Wait a second now. OP is talking with Mr. Nel about the highway gun shot incident. Mr. Nel calls OP out on making the story up or otherwise he would remember who he called, who came and got him, etc. OP says that he would gladly tell who he called if he could remember it because it would collaborate his story.

Full Definition of COLLABORATE


1: to work jointly with others or together especially in an intellectual endeavor


2: to cooperate with or willingly assist an enemy of one's country and especially an occupying force


3: to cooperate with an agency or instrumentality with which one is not immediately connected

I think he meant to say corroborate.

 

[TorisMom003]

Concerning Van de Burg. The incident between he and OP about S Taylor.

"He stared at me the whole morning M'lady. He couldn't keep his eyes off me."

Now, how would OP know this unless he was staring at Van de Burg?