Trial Discussion weekend Thread #24

[Viper]

It's not a rational thought. It is the ONLY available explanation for the shooting that does not incriminate him. "I thought he/she was an intruder" is not exactly a novel defense... it is a fairly obvious one. All that he needed to do was construct an elaborate reason and set of circumstances around it, which took five days and a large defense team.

Remember, this is the man who, between the time of a gun being fired at Tasha's and management arriving to see what the sound was, had already come up with the excuse that it was his friend who had fired it, and had convinced said friend to take the blame!

BIB. Not only that. He was near the kitchen so figured to explain it as a gas explosion in the kitchen. Nice one!

 

[clearskies1]

I am seeing a very different Roux from yesterday. It's almost as if he knows that he simply can not defend all of the things that OP is now claiming on the stand. Roux is trying his best but knows that this is a loosing battle.

I told hubby yesterday that I am beginning to feel sorry for Roux. OP has laid blame for many things now onto Roux. Things that can (and more than likely will) affect Roux's practice in the future.

MOO

It would be interesting to know how OP's testimony differed from what Roux expected. On the key points: pulling trigger at the restaurant, and intending to pull trigger in bathroom it's hard to believe that Roux didn't know what OP would say (although Roux did seem to try to reel in OP's "accident" testimony about the bathroom).

MOO

 

[nastasya]

Nope, it doesn't make any sense. If you're being accused of intentionality killing someone it's not a great idea to say you sat there for 5 minutes, not doing anything.

That's a very bad plan, and more likely to land you in jail than saying at least you tried to save her. Is he being honest or dishonest here?

Well since we know he didn't call for help, he had to make up something to account for what he was doing for over ten minutes before he shoved his fingers in her mouth in front of everybody.

Of course he's being dishonest. The arterial blood spatter spurts prove that. She didn't bleed out all over the bathroom floor for 10 minutes. Look at the pictures of the bathroom floor. She wasn't in the toilet bleeding out for ten minutes.

 

[soozieqtips]

I am seeing a very different Roux from yesterday. It's almost as if he knows that he simply can not defend all of the things that OP is now claiming on the stand. Roux is trying his best but knows that this is a loosing battle.

I told hubby yesterday that I am beginning to feel sorry for Roux. OP has laid blame for many things now onto Roux. Things that can (and more than likely will) affect Roux's practice in the future.

MOO

I don't think Roux's practice will be affected by this, mainly because he's just one in a really really long list of people OP has to blame for his version/s to work. Roux was dealt a rotten egg, and he couldn't have foreseen that OP was going to blame him for not reading and understanding his own affidavit. OP quite literally has no one to blame but himself for that. I'm sure the Judge would think so too. But I do feel sorry for Roux too, that he's been stabbed in the back like this.

 

[molly333]

But clearly Dr Stipp did.
And Oscar is ungrateful for his assistance in getting his finger out from Reeva's clenched jaw.

For whose benefit was OP 'stopping the bleeding in the hip with one hand' and sticking his fingers in her 'clenched' mouth with the other? [per Dr.Stipp]

Surely not for the people who were collecting plastic bags and rope instead of calling an ambulance?

And surely not for his girlfriend who had been dead since 3am?

 

[DebinGA]

Did Jan Botha address the arterial spray/s or is there another DT forensic expert waiting in the wings?

 

[weeeva]

I don't get why people don't think he had time to make up a story, he shot her through a door, all he had to say was he thought it was someone else in there, he then had 5 days until the bail hearing to come up with his affidavit.

And I don't get why people won't keep an open mind and think that maybe, just maybe he is telling the truth. If a person is called to do jury duty, that is the position they are expected to take. We have still to hear lots more evidence, but so far I think his story is plausible. That does not mean I won't have a change of heart.
I don't even like the man, but that is neither here nor there, he deserves a fair trial.

 

[AlexUK]

I also think he inserted that picking up the jeans thing not only for the led but also for the impression that he was busy with leaning on the floor and picking them up and not turned his face to Reeva's side..

I saw Mrs Steenkamp when he mentioned her jeans on the floor and my gut feeling she got irritated and looked at the woman sitting near her..

Re the last bit.....wasn't it reported that Mrs Steenkamp said to the woman next to her that the jeans looked too big to be Reeva's?

 

[nastasya]

The fatal flaw in the defense case was exposed yesterday. Defense claims witnesses absolutely did NOT hear Reeva scream. OP claims with 100% conviction Reeva did not scream.

Then he says he went deaf and couldn't even hear his own screams.

Defense has no basis then that Reeva did not scream because OP just invalidated the only testimony (his own) that she did not scream.

Therefore defense has no evidence to claim that witnesses could not have heard woman screaming. Their only witness, OP, just testified it would be impossible for him to know if Reeva screamed after the first shot.

It follows then that judge must accept 5 witnesses testimony who heard woman scream.

:jail:

 

[molly333]

And I don't get why people won't keep an open mind and think that maybe, just maybe he is telling the truth. If a person is called to do jury duty, that is the position they are expected to take. We have still to hear lots more evidence, but so far I think his story is plausible. That does not mean I won't have a change of heart.
I don't even like the man, but that is neither here nor there, he deserves a fair trial.

We're throwing ideas around. I don't think any of this can be "proved."

But, you are right.

 

[Britlaws]

Sorry if this has been covered before (I can't keep up with this forum!)..

The lack of blood generally (given the magnitude of the wounds) has been a curiosity for me (my god that makes me sound like some kind of vampire sicko ). I think RS died very quickly in the toilet, but there isn't that much blood in there on the floor. She apparently had her head rested on the toilet seat after the last shot hit her head, or certainly it is likely to have rested there. The toilet has always bugged me. It looks to me like it had either recently been flushed prior to her being shot, or it was flushed after. If you can bear to look
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/cri...n-bloody-crime-scene-photos-article-1.1721594

If her head was resting on the toilet (and the smears on the seat indicate it was), then most of the bleeding from this wound would be into the toilet itself. The 'stripes' of blood down the toilet look kind of odd to me. If the toilet hadn't been flushed in a while, the blood would be everywhere in the toilet bowl. If it had been flushed very recently prior to the bleeding, then maybe the blood wouldn't 'stick' to the porcelain where it is still wet, i.e. the flush stripes. If it was flushed afterwards, it would wash away the blood where the water jets washed it away forming the stripes. It looks to me that it was flushed after the events, whilst she was still bleeding.

There would be a massive bleed from the head wound, but only for a very short while, as death was almost instant. I think most of the blood (and brain matter ) was in the toilet before she was moved, with the blood on the floor being from the hip and arm wounds only in the moments prior to death, which accounts for the absence of major bleeding elsewhere.

Urgh, I cant believe I am even considering this aspect but I think she remained in the toilet during his 'thinking' time and he flushed the toilet maybe during ridiculous thoughts of covering this all up, and that all this getting her out of the toilet and laying her head 'softly' on the bathroom mat is b******s.

 

[molly333]

The fatal flaw in the defense case was exposed yesterday. Defense claims witnesses absolutely did NOT hear Reeva scream. OP claims with 100% conviction Reeva did not scream.

Then he says he went deaf and couldn't even hear his own screams.

Defense has no basis then that Reeva did not scream because OP just invalidated the only testimony (his own) that she did not scream.

Therefore defense has no evidence to claim that witnesses could not have heard woman screaming. Their only witness, OP, just testified it would be impossible for him to know if Reeva screamed after the first shot.

It follows then that judge must accept 5 witnesses testimony who heard woman scream.

:jail:

Except--how does a dead woman scream? She was dead at 3am.

And, OP could not say he heard her scream or else he's shooting his screaming girlfriend.

 

[Niner]

I have a question - and I haven't seen anyone mention this before, but on this quote from the Trial Discussion from yesterday:

OP volunteered today that when he spoke to RS at 3-ish as he went for the fans, she was awake in bed with the duvet over her legs.

re bold - WHY would Reeva have the duvet over her legs, IF it was warm and humid?? You would think her legs would NOT be covered? No??

back to reading and :lurk: mode!

:seeya:

 

[Really?]

[snipped]


So...he wanted Reeva dead so he shot her. Then he tried to make it look like he didn't want her dead by breaking the door and rescuing her.
Once rescued she was dead, so he thought he'd again make it look like he was trying to save her. But it was all a cover-up, as he wanted her dead anyway?

Have I got this right? :dunno:

Yes, you got it

 

[nastasya]

There couldn't be any arterial blood if she died instantly per the ME's [pathologist] testimony.

The rest of it might be, "Here's another nice mess you've gotten me into."

Heart beats until blood is pumped out. ME testified she stopped breathing almost instantly. Her brain was blown out of the back of her skull.

Heart beats until it runs out of oxygen. Very little blood was on the floor. Somebody posted a video that showed a protester in Thailand shot in the head. A huge pool of blood formed in less than a minute.

If OP shot her at 3:10 there is zero chance arterial blood spurted over the railing when he carried her down the steps.

 

[molly333]

Sorry if this has been covered before (I can't keep up with this forum!)..

The lack of blood generally (given the magnitude of the wounds) has been a curiosity for me (my god that makes me sound like some kind of vampire sicko ). I think RS died very quickly in the toilet, but there isn't that much blood in there on the floor. She apparently had her head rested on the toilet seat after the last shot hit her head, or certainly it is likely to have rested there. The toilet has always bugged me. It looks to me like it had either recently been flushed prior to her being shot, or it was flushed after. If you can bear to look
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/cri...n-bloody-crime-scene-photos-article-1.1721594

If her head was resting on the toilet (and he smears on the seat indicate it was), then most of the bleeding from this wound would be into the toilet itself. The 'stripes' of blood down the toilet look kind of odd to me. If the toilet hadn't been flushed in a while, the blood would be everywhere in the toilet bowl. If it had been flushed very recently prior to the bleeding, then maybe the blood wouldn't 'stick' to the porcelain where it is still wet, i.e. the flush stripes. If it was flushed afterwards, it would wash away the blood where the water jets washed it away forming the stripes. It looks to me that it was flushed after the events, whilst she was still bleeding.

There would be a massive bleed from the head wound, but only for a very short while, as death was almost instant. I think most of the blood (and brain matter ) was in the toilet before she was moved, with the blood on the floor being from the hip and arm wounds only in the moments prior to death, which accounts for the absence of major bleeding elsewhere.

Urgh, I cant believe I am even considering this aspect but I think she remained in the toilet during his 'thinking' time that and he flushed the toilet maybe during ridiculous thoughts of covering this all up, and that all this getting her out of the toilet and laying her head 'softly' on the bathroom mat is b******s.

I can't look at that picture but I think you might be right. If you look at the bathroom floor, it's mostly blood drops from her being carried out of the closet. I don't think he put her down there, either.

Do you know if the bathmat was soaked with blood?

 

[Britlaws]

Heart beats until blood is pumped out. ME testified she stopped breathing almost instantly. Her brain was blown out of the back of her skull.

Heart beats until it runs out of oxygen. Very little blood was on the floor. Somebody posted a video that showed a protester in Thailand shot in the head. A huge pool of blood formed in less than a minute.

If OP shot her at 3:10 there is zero chance arterial blood spurted over the railing when he carried her down the steps.

Am I imagining it or did the PT blood splatter col say that the spurts could be due to like a kinked hose, I recall someone talking about uncurling a kinked hose, so it didn't have to be due to a beating heart.

 

[Emz73]

BBM: I believe it is very possible that he minimized her injuries in his call to them if they really advised him to move her.

Agree. I've been searching online for anything to do with this call. And all I can find is somebody saying they did media work for Netcare so she was going to find what the protocol was in this situation. She did say the same though, he probably minimised her injuries as they wouldn't usually advise to move the body.

 

[kaos]

But according to OP's version he was already near that side of the bed when he heard the noise. OP stated that he was at the foot of the bed, after moving the fans and such by the balcony, to put the jeans on the LED light. His "legs" were near the balcony to "air out".

And the legs would surely have been within just as easy a reach as the gun? He first claimed that he was closing the curtains when he heard a noise so that would have meant him having to pass his legs to get to the gun.

And I don't get why people won't keep an open mind and think that maybe, just maybe he is telling the truth. If a person is called to do jury duty, that is the position they are expected to take. We have still to hear lots more evidence, but so far I think his story is plausible. That does not mean I won't have a change of heart.
I don't even like the man, but that is neither here nor there, he deserves a fair trial.

This is websleuths though, not webjurors. I don't see too many closed minds here. I see many people coming up with other possibilities and that doesn't indicate closed minds to me.

 

[nastasya]

When I heard this part of the testimony, I rewound and listened to it about 8 different times thinking I was high.

That might go in his top 10 list of absurdly bad and false explanations during this trial!!

I nominate this for top 10:

"If I was trying to start trouble I would not have even contemplated talking with him." or whatever his exact quote was.

That was a WTF rewind "Am I high?" moment that never will make sense.