TRIAL - Ross Harris #1

[tlcya]

When you cannot agree then simply agree to disagree and move forward.

 

[PaperDoll]

BBM -- Respectfully PaperDoll, neither the public or the defense is responsible for proving anything. The burden of proof rests with his accusers.

I'm actually directing my questions to people here :blushing: I understand what you are saying, but I'm amazed at how Cooper was left to die in his so called loving fathers care and people are thinking it was a accident. I'm sorry, I really am but that is beyond me given the timeframe amongst other things that happened that day. To me I find it totally IMPOSSIBLE! I'm going with my gut and heart on this matter because a little child died a horrible death and people seem to want to excuse this so called loving father for causing it. Anyways, carry on. I'm going to go back and watch my football game :blushing:

 

[Hope4More]

It's my understanding that search warrants were issued for the electronics. The defense filed a motion to supress based on their claim that the warrants were issued without proper probable cause - i.e. they were unlawfully issued. If there were unlawful warrantless/no consent searches then I agree it's a problem.

http://media.wix.com/ugd/943520_dbef8061398142dd9b406b218b0985d8.pdf

While I'm at it, here's the conversation Ross had during his breakfast with Cooper. IMO it's reasonable to speculate that during this conversation Ross decided he had enough of fatherhood. IMO it's also reasonable to speculate that he made a purposeful decision to keep going at the intersection. My point is that we really don't know what was in his mind that day but it's just as likely he made a really bad decision as it is that he simply forgot about Cooper minutes after clicking him into his carseat and telling him he loved him and kissing him - just in case one of them died.

http://media.wix.com/ugd/943520_295551dff44141fb94f76339ccf8ed7c.pdf

Sorry - my reply/quote is off again but this isn't aimed at anyone in particular anyway.

Thanks for the link to the texts he sent while at CFA. I hadn't looked at the times again since trial began. IMO the times explain a lot, but I draw very different conclusions from the timing -and the content- than you do.

IMO, what's clear is that what's on RH's mind at CFA is resentment towards LEANNA as much as anything else. He's asking this person to commiserate with him about a spouse who won't let him go out to play. He explicitly says what he's feeling isn't about Cooper, who he loves. This person responds in kind-- she doesn't resent her kids, she resents her thankless husband. It's just not about the kids, including Cooper. It's about LEANNA.

"We both need escapes." Either use of the both is innocuous in terms of Cooper. Both-referring to himself and to this person he wants to sext or whatever with, or both referring to himself and Cooper, which is about as pedestrian as it gets, a parent saying he needs time for himself. If that is considered evidence of wanting to kill one's child then lock me up now, along with tens of millions of other parents who love their children unconditionally, but who didn't stop being a person when they also became a parent.

What I wonder now is if Ross was working up a self righteous indignant anger towards LEANNA as he sat there, a building up of courage to tell her he was going to the movies with friends that day whether she approved or not. And that is what he was so caught up as he drove that Cooper just didn't register. And why he so chirpingly told the guard on his way out- hey! I'm going to the movies!!

Maybe?

 

[DexterMorgan]

I'm actually directing my questions to people here :blushing: I understand what you are saying, but I'm amazed at how Cooper was left to die in his so called loving fathers care and people are thinking it was a accident. I'm sorry, I really am but that is beyond me given the timeframe amongst other things that happened that day. To me I find it totally IMPOSSIBLE! I'm going with my gut and heart on this matter because a little child died a horrible death and people seem to want to excuse this so called loving father for causing it. Anyways, carry on. I'm going to go back and watch my football game :blushing:

The jury must ask themselves. Did he set out to do this? Or did he neglectfully do this due to him fully concentrating on sexting?

Now the negligence is there beyond a reasonable doubt.

But the puzzle fitting for the premeditated malice intent still can garner doubt in some eyes. Especially since there is no digital foot print of a smoking gun. Idk

 

[pet friend]

I'm actually directing my questions to people here :blushing: I understand what you are saying, but I'm amazed at how Cooper was left to die in his so called loving fathers care and people are thinking it was a accident. I'm sorry, I really am but that is beyond me given the timeframe amongst other things that happened that day. To me I find it totally IMPOSSIBLE! I'm going with my gut and heart on this matter because a little child died a horrible death and people seem to want to excuse this so called loving father for causing it. Anyways, carry on. I'm going to go back and watch my football game :blushing:

I readily admit that I find RH a very unlikable person. I keep reminding myself the case is @ the very beginning. I expected to see LH charged as an accessory to murder. I found both parents reactions to Cooper's death bothersome. I wanted to vomit when RH was allowed to call into Cooper's funeral service. It's beyond my comprehension how unemotional both parents were.

 

[Hope4More]

Thinking about RH leaving early to go the movies. Not in jest- perhaps he was leaving himself enough time to stop by the Econolodge for 15 minutes before living it up with the boys?

 

[DaleTray]

I'm actually directing my questions to people here :blushing: I understand what you are saying, but I'm amazed at how Cooper was left to die in his so called loving fathers care and people are thinking it was a accident. I'm sorry, I really am but that is beyond me given the timeframe amongst other things that happened that day. To me I find it totally IMPOSSIBLE! I'm going with my gut and heart on this matter because a little child died a horrible death and people seem to want to excuse this so called loving father for causing it. Anyways, carry on. I'm going to go back and watch my football game :blushing:

Respectfully, the courts desire the jurors to react to facts rather than gut and heart. I have seen no one want to excuse RH for his actions. I personally just don't want a dad to be wrongfully accused of premeditated murder if, in fact, it was selfish negligence that caused Coopers death. I just seek the truth through testimony and an appropriate verdict. Nothing less, nothing more. Hope your team wins. My Redskins won.

 

[minor4th]

Is Ferrell the LE that said something to the effect if "No, I didn't write the report. I forgot. I guess I got busy." "But Stoddard verbally reminded me while passing in the hallway 12 months later" and I told Stoddard "Yes,I did forget and w go write it now"?
I am too lazy to go back and look at who said what so maybe I shouldn't have used quotation marks. Lets go Redskins

Yes, that is who Ferrell is.

In addition:

He hand picked Stoddard to lead the investigation and Stoddard has definitively presented misleading and false information in court proceedings and affidavits.

He made himself a witness at the crime scene, even though he was a lieutenant and does not do crime scene investigation.

Testified that "if you lock your child in a car, and the child dies, that's a crime" even though that's not true in every case.

He told the crime tech to document everything like a criminal homicide before knowing any of the facts and circumstances.

He testified that he was with Cooper and the ME on the ground, but the crime tech some how did not notice Ferrell when he was taking photos of Cooper.

He is one of two officers who smelled "death" in the car, but he didn't write his report about it until a year later. The only other officer to smell "death" was officer Gall.. who did not note the death smell in his initial report, and only included it in a report he wrote more than a month after the incident.

I swear - I wonder if Ferrell was even really there at the scene.

 

[Safeguard]

I'm actually directing my questions to people here :blushing: I understand what you are saying, but I'm amazed at how Cooper was left to die in his so called loving fathers care and people are thinking it was a accident. I'm sorry, I really am but that is beyond me given the timeframe amongst other things that happened that day. To me I find it totally IMPOSSIBLE! I'm going with my gut and heart on this matter because a little child died a horrible death and people seem to want to excuse this so called loving father for causing it. Anyways, carry on. I'm going to go back and watch my football game :blushing:

http://www.kidsandcars.org/how-kids-get-hurt/heat-stroke/

So all these kids were deliberately murdered by their supposedly loving parents?

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Gannon Werking

 

[DaleTray]

Imagine Ross and Cooper sitting together in their den watching cartoons. Cooper on the floor and Ross on sofa. Ross is oiling and cleaning a handgun. Ross receives a text tfrom a female he has been texting. She asks Ross if he has 10 minutes for some phone se_. Ross goes to bedroom and shuts door. 5 minutes later Ross hears a gunshot. I would assume LE would check for GSR on RH hands. Also check for GSR on Cooper's hands. I would expect LE to interview Leanna and her whereabouts and alibi. I would expect LE to check with school employees and co-workers for background context. Check to see if CPS has ever been involved in the family. What do their neighbors report? After a thorough investigation, I think LE would rule it an accident. An accident because RH was negligent. If LE find out RH had gone to bedroom for phone se_ and they they would initiate charges. Had Ross heard the gunshot as he went to the kitchen to stir the mashed potatoes, maybe charges wouldn't be filed. Either way, with patience in grabbing the facts and background info, I don't think the word malicious would have ever been uttered by anyone. I believe had the mashed potatoes scenario played out, JH would have even potentially received a little sympathy from the public. I don't think any of us want to extend RH any sympathy.

 

[minor4th]

This site has so much information that addresses how parents forget their child in a car to the issue of driving miles without smelling urine or the body of a child.

The defense needs to get Dr. David Diamond to testify regarding some of the issues that are being brought up. He has testified at many civil and criminal trials when a child has been left in a hot car. He addresses the issue of how good and caring parents can forget a child in the car.

https://theconversation.com/an-epid...ot-cars-a-tragedy-that-can-be-prevented-60909

I believe Dr Diamond is the defense's expert.

 

[Safeguard]

View attachment 103168

What Kind of Parent – By Stephanie

rs/bbm

"When you hear of cases of child hyperthermia where the parent or other care giver has left the child in the car unintentionally, you must wonder, “What kind of parent would do that?”

Definitely not a parent who took prenatal vitamins for 6 months before trying to get pregnant. A parent who threw out the baby bumper because the American Pediatric Association did not recommend bumpers for cribs as they could cause suffocation. A parent who drew up three different driving routes and tested the routes in order to determine which route was safest. A parent that made their own baby food, breast fed and pumped. A parent that made belly casts for both her pregnancies. A parent who went on bed rest, ate right, did not drink, smoke or do drugs. A parent who thought they had researched enough about child hyperthermia and thought their drop-off plan would work. A normal, good and caring parent that was looking forward to the birth of the child she was carrying. A parent like me, Stephanie.

According to Kids and Cars Organization, approximately 92% of the cases happen to great parents. This tragedy happens to the wealthy, the poor and the middle class. It is blind to gender, race, education, those with great common sense, the disorganized, and the organized. It has happened to a dentist, a postal clerk, a social worker, a police officer, an accountant, a soldier, a paralegal, a preacher, an electrician, a Protestant clergyman, a rabbinical student, a mechanic, a stay at home mother, a teacher, a nurse, a construction worker, and an assistant principal. It happened to a mental health counselor, a college professor and a pizza chef. It happened to a pediatrician, an attorney and an ER doctor. It happened to a rocket scientist. It happened to me."

http://www.kidsandcars.org/how-kids-get-hurt/heat-stroke/

 

[Hope4More]

Yes, that is who Ferrell is.

In addition:

He hand picked Stoddard to lead the investigation and Stoddard has definitively presented misleading and false information in court proceedings and affidavits.

He made himself a witness at the crime scene, even though he was a lieutenant and does not do crime scene investigation.

Testified that "if you lock your child in a car, and the child dies, that's a crime" even though that's not true in every case.

He told the crime tech to document everything like a criminal homicide before knowing any of the facts and circumstances.

He testified that he was with Cooper and the ME on the ground, but the crime tech some how did not notice Ferrell when he was taking photos of Cooper.

He is one of two officers who smelled "death" in the car, but he didn't write his report about it until a year later. The only other officer to smell "death" was officer Gall.. who did not note the death smell in his initial report, and only included it in a report he wrote more than a month after the incident.

I swear - I wonder if Ferrell was even really there at the scene.

That one month later timing is interesting, because by then LE was finding little to nothing of actual evidence to support charges of malice and intent. A smell in the car that RH could not failed to have noticed surely would have been helpful to LE about then.

 

[minor4th]

Ok. Thank you for that explanation. I see where your coming from now. I still don't think it's fair to belittle posters for questioning authority. (I wish more people would!)
LE brought these accusations after all.They do have to answer to the, (we.the) people who employ them. We have a right to question their behavior, and to discuss that here.


That said, no way do I envy the job of LE!

The fact is cops and prosecutors do sometimes get overzealous in their pursuit of "justice." It happens, so I don't see why we shouldn't comment on it when it looks like that is happening.

I am married to a former cop - 20+ years on the force. I am generally sympathetic to police.

 

[PaperDoll]

Respectfully, the courts desire the jurors to react to facts rather than gut and heart. I have seen no one want to excuse RH for his actions. I personally just don't want a dad to be wrongfully accused of premeditated murder if, in fact, it was selfish negligence that caused Coopers death. I just seek the truth through testimony and an appropriate verdict. Nothing less, nothing more. Hope your team wins. My Redskins won.

I understand and agree, however since there really isn't a so called smoking gun, it's just Ross's word that he forgot, I would have to go with my gut and heart in this case. Yes, people forget and do things that can result in harm. IMO, with the evidence this far, I find him guilty on all accounts. I find it very hard to believe he forgot in less than a minute or so. Could he have by what has been presented by the defense? yes, because, again, people do get distracted and forget. Do I believe this is true with Ross, NO! What other evidence do I go on? none because IMO you can't prove it was a accident and you can't prove it was intentional therefore I have to base it on my gut and heart. My mind controls my gut and heart by the way

Half time, Go PACKS!!!! :dance:

 

[katydid23]

This site has so much information that addresses how parents forget their child in a car to the issue of driving miles without smelling urine or the body of a child.

The defense needs to get Dr. David Diamond to testify regarding some of the issues that are being brought up. He has testified at many civil and criminal trials when a child has been left in a hot car. He addresses the issue of how good and caring parents can forget a child in the car.

https://theconversation.com/an-epid...ot-cars-a-tragedy-that-can-be-prevented-60909

But 'good and caring' parents are not distracted because they are planning out their next sexting exchange with a minor. IF Ross did forget his child was there, it was because he was obsessing on his twisted sexual past times and not thinking about his job as a Dad. And that might be the crucial issue here, imo.

That car seat was just inches from RH. Most car seats are not as close and as visible as in this case. And most people drove quite awhile before they 'forgot' their baby. I can see how it might happen if you are making a very early am drive on a long road with a sleeping baby in the back seat of a larger car. But this case has several things that make it hard to accept he could have forgotten, if he had been a 'caring' parent. The time being so short, a matter of a couple minutes, works against him. The car seat being so close, just inches away from him. A toddler would be moving around, stretching his arms, babbling, ---hard to believe he could forget he was even there.

 

[blue22]

View attachment 103168

What Kind of Parent – By Stephanie

rs/bbm

"When you hear of cases of child hyperthermia where the parent or other care giver has left the child in the car unintentionally, you must wonder, “What kind of parent would do that?”

Definitely not a parent who took prenatal vitamins for 6 months before trying to get pregnant. A parent who threw out the baby bumper because the American Pediatric Association did not recommend bumpers for cribs as they could cause suffocation. A parent who drew up three different driving routes and tested the routes in order to determine which route was safest. A parent that made their own baby food, breast fed and pumped. A parent that made belly casts for both her pregnancies. A parent who went on bed rest, ate right, did not drink, smoke or do drugs. A parent who thought they had researched enough about child hyperthermia and thought their drop-off plan would work. A normal, good and caring parent that was looking forward to the birth of the child she was carrying. A parent like me, Stephanie.

According to Kids and Cars Organization, approximately 92% of the cases happen to great parents. This tragedy happens to the wealthy, the poor and the middle class. It is blind to gender, race, education, those with great common sense, the disorganized, and the organized. It has happened to a dentist, a postal clerk, a social worker, a police officer, an accountant, a soldier, a paralegal, a preacher, an electrician, a Protestant clergyman, a rabbinical student, a mechanic, a stay at home mother, a teacher, a nurse, a construction worker, and an assistant principal. It happened to a mental health counselor, a college professor and a pizza chef. It happened to a pediatrician, an attorney and an ER doctor. It happened to a rocket scientist. It happened to me."

http://www.kidsandcars.org/how-kids-get-hurt/heat-stroke/

All do respect, it doesn't matter what a parent did every other day. They failed their child THAT day. They failed to even do the most basic thing as a parent...remember their child, keep them alive. Just because they are "good," does not mean they weren't neglectful in forgetting and shouldn't be charged with a crime. It's such a farce that only "bad" parents should be charged if a child dies.

 

[katydid23]

Agree. People don't like RH and they want someone to blame so... wala, RH must have murdered his kid.

People keep insisting things they can't possibly know, must be true. From the way car must have smelled, ( When I provided a link to much evidence to the contrary in similar cases! but nope, it must have reeked!), to what RH must have thought, noticed, or been thinking without any possible way to know these things.

We all want to believe we would never behave like RH and maybe we wouldnt. But "Experience is the Biggest Killer of Theory" as the saying goes.

And... Ross pissed off LE. That will cause them to up the charges. No I don't have a link for that info, But I have seen it a gazillion times. Yes if cops don't like you they will often make someone's life miserable using trumped up charges, just because they can.

I don't think they are trumped up charges. They might have over charged a bit. But that often happens, and then the juries find a middle ground. The cops found a young child, who had died a gruesome painful death, because his so called father was distracted by his obsession with sexting young girls---no wonder LE was pissed. I don't blame them one bit.

 

[cricket49]

I believe Dr Diamond is the defense's expert.

Glad to hear it. I cannot wait for his testimony.

 

[katydid23]

View attachment 103168

What Kind of Parent – By Stephanie

rs/bbm

"When you hear of cases of child hyperthermia where the parent or other care giver has left the child in the car unintentionally, you must wonder, “What kind of parent would do that?”

Definitely not a parent who took prenatal vitamins for 6 months before trying to get pregnant. A parent who threw out the baby bumper because the American Pediatric Association did not recommend bumpers for cribs as they could cause suffocation. A parent who drew up three different driving routes and tested the routes in order to determine which route was safest. A parent that made their own baby food, breast fed and pumped. A parent that made belly casts for both her pregnancies. A parent who went on bed rest, ate right, did not drink, smoke or do drugs. A parent who thought they had researched enough about child hyperthermia and thought their drop-off plan would work. A normal, good and caring parent that was looking forward to the birth of the child she was carrying. A parent like me, Stephanie.

According to Kids and Cars Organization, approximately 92% of the cases happen to great parents. This tragedy happens to the wealthy, the poor and the middle class. It is blind to gender, race, education, those with great common sense, the disorganized, and the organized. It has happened to a dentist, a postal clerk, a social worker, a police officer, an accountant, a soldier, a paralegal, a preacher, an electrician, a Protestant clergyman, a rabbinical student, a mechanic, a stay at home mother, a teacher, a nurse, a construction worker, and an assistant principal. It happened to a mental health counselor, a college professor and a pizza chef. It happened to a pediatrician, an attorney and an ER doctor. It happened to a rocket scientist. It happened to me."

http://www.kidsandcars.org/how-kids-get-hurt/heat-stroke/

We don't know the facts of Stephanies hot car case though. It might have been understandable and a series of circumstances that created the perfect storm. I have seen some cases where I am very sympathetic with the grieving parent. They were tired from over work, maybe dropping off the child was out of their routine, child was asleep, long drive, etc etc....it can happen to a 'good' parent and it is tragic.

But maybe Stephanie went to 'Happy Hour' after work, picked up her precious child, made it home but was too drunk to remember to bring the baby inside? I saw a case like that. If her reasons for 'forgetting' were something negative like that, there would be less sympathy, imo. If she picked up her child and drove to a bar or casino, and left the baby to die in the car, . ----zero sympathy---no matter how 'great' of a parent she was before that day.