TRIAL - Ross Harris #1

[jamiect]

Ross Harris Trial ‏@RossHarrisTrial 27s27 seconds ago
Grimstead testifies that the distance from the car seat to the driver's seat was 3 1/2 inches.

 

[JerseyGirl]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...dad-Ross-Harris-spent-day-working-office.html

Continuing to go through pictures, Grimstead says sitting in the driver's seat, he could see the child safety seat in his peripheral vision.

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/ross-harr...nute-day-4-of-the-ross-harris-trial/456365088

Grimstead later read off measurements from the drivers seat in relation to the child safety seat -- testifying that the top part of Cooper Harris' child safety seat was only three and a half inches from the driver's seat.

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/ross-harr...ath-trial-he-seemed-to-love-his-son/456398994

 

[blue22]

I still think there is a big problem with the felony murder charge, which relies on 2nd degree cruelty to children. I do not think they will be able to prove cruelty to children because it requires criminal negligence - and that requires gross negligence - they would essentially have to prove that Ross knew Cooper was in the car and left him there all day, disregarding the risk of serious injury or death.

Have you listened to the AJC Breakdown podcast? They have a defense attorney and a prosecutor talking about this charge, and it sheds some light on this IMO

That is not what they have to prove. With second degree there doesn't have to be specific intent. For second degree, they only have to prove his negligence caused Cooper pain. They allege they criminal negligence is leaving Cooper in the car. However, he did not have to KNOW he left Cooper in the car when he was walking away. That would be without a doubt intent to murder. Not for this charge, but that is relevant to the other charge. Thy simply have to prove he was negligent for not remembering he was there.

 

[SuperTmo]

I wonder why Ross had so many electronic devices and stuff to store data on (thumb drive, hard drive, etc) with him at work. It seems like a lot of stuff.

ETA: interesting that he had an extra phone w/ him, too. I wonder if it was a secret phone he used it for his sexting.

 

[Hope4More]

That is not what they have to prove. With second degree there doesn't have to be specific intent. For second degree, they only have to prove his negligence caused Cooper pain. They allege they criminal negligence is leaving Cooper in the car. However, he did not have to KNOW he left Cooper in the car. Not for this charge, but that is relevant to the other charge. Thy simply have to prove he was negligent for not remembering he was there.

Not quite correct. The statute for second degree child cruelty applied to this case says that to be found guilty, RH must have acted or failed to act in a manner that demonstrated criminal negligence, defined as a "willful, reckless, or wanton disregard " for Cooper's safety or well being (or life).

I've posted the exact wording a number of times, as have GA Peach and others.....

 

[blue22]

I wonder why Ross had so many electronic devices and stuff to store data on (thumb drive, hard drive, etc) with him at work. It seems like a lot of stuff.

ETA: interesting that he had an extra phone w/ him, too. I wonder if it was a secret phone he used it for his sexting.

Ross disgusts me and I hope he is in jail the rest of his life. However, the electronics don't bother me. My husband works with computers and IT, the amount of electronics we have is ridiculous! Maybe a little odd he had all of those electronics with him, but not very much to me. Mine probably has a half dozen in his back seat right now, lol.

 

[minor4th]

That is not what they have to prove. With second degree there doesn't have to be specific intent. For second degree, they only have to prove his negligence caused Cooper pain. They allege they criminal negligence is leaving Cooper in the car. However, he did not have to KNOW he left Cooper in the car when he was walking away. That would be without a doubt intent to murder. Not for this charge, but that is relevant to the other charge. Thy simply have to prove he was negligent for not remembering he was there.

That is not correct.

 

[blue22]

Not quite correct. The statute for second degree child cruelty applied to this case says that to be found guilty, RH must have acted or failed to act in a manner that demonstrated criminal negligence, defined as a "willful, reckless, or wanton disregard " for Cooper's safety or well being (or life).

I've posted the exact wording a number of times, as has GA Peach and others.....

I'm simply saying that he did not have to KNOW Cooper was in the car when he got to work. They do not have to prove that for second degree.

(I see where I did not specify that part now. Sorry)

 

[SuperTmo]

Not quite correct. The statute for second degree child cruelty applied to this case says that to be found guilty, RH must have acted or failed to act in a manner that demonstrated criminal negligence, defined as a "willful, reckless, or wanton disregard " for Cooper's safety or well being (or life).

I've posted the exact wording a number of times, as have GA Peach and others.....

BBM. Has it been proven that he was texting while driving to work? I would think that being so distracted by texting that you forget your child in the course of a what... mile long drive is reckless... I can't imagine Cooper fell asleep that quickly, and the kid's head was right next to his arm. To be so distracted that you forget your kid in that situation can't be anything other than reckless. I'd also venture to say that if he was texting while driving that is willful disregard for Cooper's safety and wellbeing because that's just plain dangerous.

 

[arkansasmimi]

how tall is RH and what kind of shoes was he wearing that day?

 

[Hope4More]

I still think there is a big problem with the felony murder charge, which relies on 2nd degree cruelty to children. I do not think they will be able to prove cruelty to children because it requires criminal negligence - and that requires gross negligence - they would essentially have to prove that Ross knew Cooper was in the car and left him there all day, disregarding the risk of serious injury or death.

Have you listened to the AJC Breakdown podcast? They have a defense attorney and a prosecutor talking about this charge, and it sheds some light on this IMO

I have listened to the podcasts, thanks- they're very well done.

IMO, no matter how well Staley instructs the jury, and no matter how well the jury understands the precise definition of criminal negligence, this is one of those instances when a jury is most likely to rely upon their own "common sense" consensus of how negligent RH was to not know Cooper was in the car, rather than the strict letter of a statute.

And a fairly reasonable , common sense understanding of RH's culpability, imo, is that there just isn't any reason sufficient enough to excuse RH from not knowing /remembering where Cooper was. jmo

 

[blue22]

BBM. Has it been proven that he was texting while driving to work? I would think that being so distracted by texting that you forget your child in the course of a what... mile long drive is reckless... I can't imagine Cooper fell asleep that quickly, and the kid's head was right next to his arm. To be so distracted that you forget your kid in that situation can't be anything other than reckless. I'd also venture to say that if he was texting while driving that is willful disregard for Cooper's safety and wellbeing because that's just plain dangerous.

I think it's been said he was not texting while driving to work.

 

[SuperTmo]

Ross disgusts me and I hope he is in jail the rest of his life. However, the electronics don't bother me. My husband works with computers and IT, the amount of electronics we have is ridiculous! Maybe a little odd he had all of those electronics with him, but not very much to me. Mine probably has a half dozen in his back seat right now, lol.

The number of electronics they owned isn't odd. We own far more than we need. I have several external hard drives but I don't take them to work with me. If he worked in IT (I'm blanking on his job at the moment!) it would make sense if these were property of HD but IMO its odd to cart all that around if it was personal items. But I'm not a computer person and am pretty dang lazy, so I only take with me what I know I'll need any given day!

 

[SuperTmo]

I think it's been said he was not texting while driving to work.

Thank you for that!

 

[magnolia]

If I were on a jury, I would think it's common sense that there would be smell. Unless the defense has a tactic to prove there wasn't smell, I don't think documentation issues with play a huge part. JMO

I have no doubt the defense will have an expert to explain why there could not have been
a smell of decomposition in the car.

 

[blue22]

I have no doubt the defense will have an expert to explain why there could not have been
a smell of decomposition in the car.

They would not be very good, if they didn't! I think they will go really aggressively after this point. I'm just not sure they can convince a whole jury wouldn't have smelled anything at all. (But my personal feelings probably cloud that. I would hope a jury could be more impartial.)

 

[arkansasmimi]

Interesting to me, the MSM reports have said the straps were at the lowest level. That is not correct. Was in slot next to the top

Car Seat weight 22-30 pounds
from Cooper autopsy report, he weighted 21# 5.4oz http://media.wix.com/ugd/943520_7cd46570b4a9474b9e36c87173e7a14d.pdf < page 6/18

 

[blue22]

Interesting to me, the MSM reports have said the straps were at the lowest level. That is not correct. Was in slot next to the top

Car Seat weight 22-30 pounds
from Cooper autopsy report, he weighted 21# 5.4oz http://media.wix.com/ugd/943520_7cd46570b4a9474b9e36c87173e7a14d.pdf < page 6/18

Did the investigator say they were in the middle? I can't remember.

I believe Cooper was too tall for the seat, not too heavy.

 

[Hope4More]

BBM. Has it been proven that he was texting while driving to work? I would think that being so distracted by texting that you forget your child in the course of a what... mile long drive is reckless... I can't imagine Cooper fell asleep that quickly, and the kid's head was right next to his arm. To be so distracted that you forget your kid in that situation can't be anything other than reckless. I'd also venture to say that if he was texting while driving that is willful disregard for Cooper's safety and wellbeing because that's just plain dangerous.

I think you make a really good point, that even if one believes RH didn't remember/forgot Cooper was in the car, it is difficult to draw any other conclusion but that his ignorance was reckless, or wanton, not neutral.

The time was too short, and Cooper was sitting too close to him, awake or asleep, for his ignorance (lack of awareness) to be considered neutral. He should have known.

 

[Hope4More]

Interesting to me, the MSM reports have said the straps were at the lowest level. That is not correct. Was in slot next to the top

Car Seat weight 22-30 pounds
from Cooper autopsy report, he weighted 21# 5.4oz http://media.wix.com/ugd/943520_7cd46570b4a9474b9e36c87173e7a14d.pdf < page 6/18

Thank you!!!!!! That's a major correction of the record.