TRIAL - Ross Harris #1

[THATchick1021]

That's the part that makes it suspicious. Skipping a day here and there, fine. But to do it every day, then stop suddenly...

Let's not forget he stop taking pictures because Cooper was getting older. That makes no sense. If anything a child getting older is more of a reason to take more pictures in my experience anyway.

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[PaperDoll]

I debated about how or if I should respond to this, but I'll just put it this way:

PaperDoll has done an excellent job showing why arguing this case is unnecessary. The facts are undeniable: JRH could remember Cooper was in the car after a 15-20min car ride to Chik-Fil-A, but somehow "forgot" about Cooper only thirty seconds to two minutes after leaving Chik-Fil-A. Not only is this implausible, JRH was the one responsible for taking Cooper to day care 19 out of the past 25 days. You do not "forget" your child in two minutes, and not after taking them to day care for almost every day.

The only question left to ask is, why? This is where the sexting and double life comes in. It is absolutely relevant when JRH is admitting he doesn't have a conscience and that he loves his son and all "but we all need escapes." Any reasonable person would deduce that he wanted to press the reset button on his life. JRH was a thirty four year old man who up until a few years ago, was used to being free to live his own life and do whatever he wanted. Cooper was a growing child whose demand would only increase as he got older. Every parent knows this.

It's not that hard to figure out why he is on malice murder charges, and why he is probably guilty.

LOL, BBM: THANK YOU for the kind words :blushing: :blowkiss:

 

[Hope4More]

You don't even know her name, do you expect me to take you seriously? The attorney & the investigators WITHOUT a doubt believe she knew---they revealed that at Ross's probable cause hearing back July, 2014. Just because she hasn't been charged with anything does not mean she is innocent of anything, it means they don't have enough evidence to secure a conviction on her.

Thank you for noticing my auto correct has been incorrect. Hmm. Wonder how far back that goes?

 

[DexterMorgan]

I don't necessarily take pictures daily either but if he did it every day dropping Cooper off to daycare and then suddenly switch to not doing it at all that's suspicious

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Agree. But come on.

At first it could have been fun.

But come on.

If its not a special occasion. Then it will soon get tiring.

Especially when no other parent is taking pictures on a daily basis of their kids arrival.

Now I may have documented the first day or maybe first week.

But after that. Enough is enough.

So I would only document Maybe Halloween at school. Or field trip at school. Or something meaningful.

But I wouldn't expect a parent to take a picture everyday for 300 days in the year. Jmo.

 

[Tawny]

I could see slacking off, but I feel he'd have taken at least a few pics between when he stopped and when Coop died.

 

[THATchick1021]

Agree. But come on.

At first it could have been fun.

But come on.

If its not a special occasion. Then it will soon get tiring.

Especially when no other parent is taking pictures on a daily basis of their kids arrival.

Now I may have documented the first day or maybe first week.

But after that. Enough is enough.

So I would only document Maybe Halloween at school. Or field trip at school. Or something meaningful.

But I wouldn't expect a parent to take a picture everyday for 300 days in the year. Jmo.

No but he quit taking pictures and then two weeks later the baby is dead.. Quite the coincidence.

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[Hope4More]

I never heard that she has ever been cleared---please provide link. I googled it and NOTHING came up except for an article saying that her attorney was surprised she hasn't been cleared (dating to July, 2014). As far as I can remember, she passed a lie detector test, and then she went under the radar until filed for divorce.

With all due respect, that's basic, not new, uncontroversial, easy to find info, if you're interested.

 

[Tricia]

That's the part that makes it suspicious. Skipping a day here and there, fine. But to do it every day, then stop suddenly...

H

Hi Everyone,

Cooper's mom has not been charged and the police and prosecution have never hinted she was involved.

Let's please keep the discussion to the trial and Ross.

I understand your thoughts and questions about Leanna but until we have something else to go on please keep it to Ross's trial.

Thank you.

 

[GA_Peach]

With a lull in the conversation as the trial is suspended for the weekend, I would like to seek opinions prior to the subject being brought up in court. Ross' text to a single mother can be interpreted two ways. "But, we BOTH need escapes" . "Both" is defined as two. The context is very important. Does "both" infer Ross/Cooper or Ross/single mom?
Ross/single mom angle to me equates to something along the lines of Ross saying to single mom "Hey, I know we are both busy parents, but, we both need escapes"
Ross/Cooper angle equates to me something along the lines of, well, I can't find the words to express myself. I don't see where Cooper would need an escape at 22 months.
I doubt the single mom will be called to testify as she probably offers no evidence relevant to the death of Cooper. She could even be one of the underage young women Ross was texting. But maybe, if the single mom accepted the words in context of Ross/Cooper the state very well could call the young lady to testify.

I think that it depends on context. If the woman on the other end of the conversation is venting about how hard raising a child is, both likely refers to the two parents. If it is Ross just venting about his life, both likely refers to Ross and Cooper.

 

[arkansasmimi]

Quote Originally Posted by arkansasmimi View Post
The body is that of a Caucasian male child whose general appearance is consistent with the stated chronological age of 22 months.

The body measurements are as follows:
Crown-heel length: 33"
Crown-rump length: 14"
Rump-heel length: 17-1/2"
Head circumference: 19-1/2"
Chest circumference: 18"
Abdominal circumference: 18"
Shoulder-rump length: 11"
Back of neck-rump length: 10-1/2"
Crown-shoulder length: 8"
Shoulder-heel length: 23-1/2"
Back of head-heel length: 26"
Body weight: 21 pounds, 5.4 ounces pg 6/8 http://media.wix.com/ugd/943520_7cd4...7173e7a14d.pdf

Again, these are NOT my numbers/figures or theory. Comes from the Autopsy Report. I do not agree or disagree, just going by the document signed by the ME on 6/29/14

BBM

17 + 14 does not equal 33. They're missing a couple of inches somewhere.

Crown to shoulder to rump = 8 + 11 = 19, which is in line with the 33 full length.

Crown to shoulder to heel = 8 + 23 = 31, not 33, so missing a couple of inches there, too.

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I totally agree the figures are strange, which is why I added, Again, these are NOT my numbers/figures or theory. Comes from the Autopsy Report. I do not agree or disagree, just going by the document signed by the ME on 6/29/14 Not sure how they come up with their numbers. Maybe there is a revised AR but that only one I have seen, that one is posted on CourtChatter archives of Motions and same one someone else posted with another link, so dunno.

 

[arkansasmimi]

And that is considered compelling evidence by the state that he killed Cooper on purpose?!

I went back and listen to the direct and cross and re re lol and it really made me mad, for both sides!

And the Expert witness,
IF he DID a search and found it, he noted it in a report
IF he DID a search and DIDN'T find anything, he DIDN'T note in his report
IF he DIDN'T do a search he DIDN'T note in his report!

Can not tell Atty if he search or didn't search no notes of what done, only noted if he found stuff.

So when the Def Rodriguez (sp?) the one with glasses, would go through a list of words asking did he search, Witness Yeager would repeat those 3 things. Then at one point Witness (paraphrasing but jest) told Atty, he would save him some time and repeated those 3 things. But the Atty continued with each word, things that the SW and charges went towards. Same thing... He also said he did not read all the SW or even which ones iirc if he did. Only the CHARGES.

He retired Jan 2015. There are 4 other Det in the High Tech unit, that he understands have done another full dump on the phone but he does not know anything in its regards. The phone dump they got, iirc does not have all the communication between RH and LH. It totally mind boggling.

They were looking for things pertaining to child abuse/neglect.. There were videos of Cooper that they did not even look at! If I understood correct

On RH iPhone 5S 

7/15/2014 Full Extraction
7/20/2014 Subset Report done
7/25/2014 Subset Report done - one that the State entered into evidence
1/23/2015 FULL Report done (Witness had not retired, for 7 more days)

Yet the State entered 7/25/2014 report is the one the State entered, not the FULL Report. On Cross, it came out that a 2nd Full Extraction has been done. But evidently the Defense was not made aware of it and Witness had no knowledge of what was on it.

JMHO from listening to the video(s) from testimony. I may have misunderstood, but video testimony is avail for review.

 

[arkansasmimi]

JMHO a very interesting exchange between the witness Ray Yeager and Def Carlos Rodriguez regarding "interests" that Yeager entered in his reports.

Of interest were 3 images of Cooper in car seat. Witness testified because it demonstrates growth. Def noted there were 20 in rear facing car seat in transport. Witness report noted that Cooper was in a rear facing car seat as late as May 24,2014 latest, the witness stated that could be the dated it was loaded to be saved.

**
NOT an exact transcript lol but very near,

Def: you made note that Cooper appears to had overgrown his car seat, are you aware of Coopers measurements
Yeager: No, just comes from an observation as a father of 5 kids and grandfather of 9 that he can tell when car seat too small for a kid
Def: Did you do further investigation to know Cooper was actually well within range for his seat
Yeager: no but his "his head extended over the top of the car seat or too high on car seat"
Yeager: again that was just my interpretation
Def: could be wrong
Yeager: could be... but I doubt it
Start around the 32:00 mark:
[video=youtube;VdCWFtMFz5s]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdCWFtMFz5s[/video]

 

[arkansasmimi]

And that is considered compelling evidence by the state that he killed Cooper on purpose?!

On RH iPhone and on Mac book (which I think was LH ?)
Searched and found no evidence of research of car death in car after specifically being told (SW) that allegedly told that RH & LH said they did.

Everything that was searched was of evidentuary value for the State, as testified by the Witness.

 

[MsMarple]

I totally agree the figures are strange, which is why I added, Again, these are NOT my numbers/figures or theory. Comes from the Autopsy Report. I do not agree or disagree, just going by the document signed by the ME on 6/29/14 Not sure how they come up with their numbers. Maybe there is a revised AR but that only one I have seen, that one is posted on CourtChatter archives of Motions and same one someone else posted with another link, so dunno.

I Googled "crown to rump" and "rump to heel" measurements. They are measurements used to determine the gestational age of an embryo or fetus, which explains why the numbers don't match. I have no idea why the measurements were included for a 22 month old toddler. Perhaps the ME took those measurements because of Cooper's body position due to rigormortis - remember, his legs were bent from sitting in the car seat. Hopefully he will explain when he testifies.

Regardless, the relevant measurement is the overall length - aka height. According to the autopsy report Cooper was 33" in length.

http://www.babymed.com/fetus-crown-rump-length-crl-measurements-ultrasound
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crown-rump_length

 

[katydid23]

Thing is, whether or not RH knew Cooper was in the car at that intersection comes down to the question of intent.

There obviously was no "forgetting" of Cooper at the intersection if RH was in the process of deliberately killing his son.

Conversely, if there was no intent to kill Cooper, then as difficult as it may be to believe or accept, Ross Harris was not aware that Cooper was in the car. Believe that there was no intent and the why's and how's of how that could be are immaterial, except for considering whether or not his lack of awareness meets the standard of criminal negligence.

Intent is at the heart of the question of forgetting, and it's precisely the question of intent where IMO the State is failing most miserably.

I am not sure that I totally agree with the first half of the above bolded statement. I agree with the last half. They are not proving intent.

But I also think that if the reason for 'forgetting' a child is because a parent is distracted by selfish, inane , petty things, ----then that is also the heart of the question. And imo, that is enough to make it a criminal neglect GUILTY verdict.

 

[katydid23]

I'm rewatching some of the testimony that I didn't get to watch closely at the time.

It's really interesting that every witness who describes a smell in the car - they are all really careful to avoid saying it smelled like decomposition. But that is what they are implying! (it smelled like "death"; diaper, sweat and "death")

I think they are trying to lead the jury to believe there was a strong decomposition odor without actually saying it. Probably because they know the defense will have experts to testify that there wouldn't be a smell of decomposition under those circumstances.

I am really disturbed by the way the prosecution and police are presenting this case. It seems Ike they are straight up trying to deceive the jury.

Have you ever accidentally left a wet diaper in a hot car for several hours? My husband did once, and when we got back to the car after a nice day at Disneyland, it smelled horrid.

It is really hard for me to believe that when he first cracked open the car door, it did not smell like wet diapers etc. That is a small car.

 

[arkansasmimi]

So very true about people's behaviors at a funeral.

I agree with you that it seems like there is a witch hunt here.

Ross was charged with murder the same day that Cooper died. How did LE even know about all their evidence at that point? My theory is that they charged him with murder becacause they were angry at another parent leaving their child in a hot car. Maybe they thought his behavior was "off" that day. After the charges hit the news, there was a lot of outrage about LE charging a parent for murder for what many thought was an accident. So LE pretty much had to find anything that would support their view that he killed Cooper on purpose to get the public off their back.

I feel so bad for the Mom for sure, according to the security guard Witness Houston, she was brought over to the Treehouse and was sitting on a little couch/bench and a tv estimated in size 50 inch, was on and the Breaking News was going on. I did not realize that when she found out, watching the flipping tv while the Security person from LAA was trying to find out about RH. I can not imagine!

 

[arkansasmimi]

as I listen to Stoddard I wonder what the jury is going to do with his testimony...just throw it out? I mean it has been shredded down to no value at all.

JMHO but if they throw out Stoddard, everything in this case seems to have came from his direction. Think of all the witnesses whose testimony so far that has changed since their orig statement or report. Even the Supervisor of Stoddard LT Ferrell (now a Captain) DID NOT FILE A REPORT until a year later (Aug 2015 iirc) and then it was on speaking to Stoddard. *this is also the Lt who allegedly smelled that smell of death 1hr and 20 or 40 minutes after scene began. Stoddard is the one who had Murphy to do the SW's, Stoddard is who gave David Dustin the info to do the 3D animated video. Stoddard is who set up the sting with the prostitute that testified last on Friday. Former CSI Grimstead did not make note in his report as ref to any odor until 8/2015 when at an informal meeting at the Crimes Against Persons unit and realized he didn't make note in his orig very detailed report and did a supplemental after it "came up in conversation". Former CSI Grimstead testified 10/12/16 that he did not include in the supplemental report about the informal meeting or that someone else at that informal meeting had brought it up.

:thinking: and we haven't scratched the surface much yet it seems. JMHO

 

[arkansasmimi]

i do think def. asked Stoddard so many questions that were outside his scope...but no objections....and still wonder what jury is thinking.

Stoddard has not testified in the trial yet. Rather not in this trial that is going on. He did testify at many Pretrial Hearings and the Bond Hearing.

 

[arkansasmimi]

Did I miss Stoddard testifying this week? I was watching live stream with chat and most of the comments seemed immature and I was distracted too much. Next week I am only going to watch the live stream with no chat.

agree lol the folks in chat on the link I watched were getting mad at Def for asking questions chat saying he answered. I guessing they were not paying close attention to what was actually going on and being said. AND what that actually means (testimony and the evidence with Yeager I mean). Looks like maybe the Def found out something they did not know? That there was 2 extractions done on RH iPhone and the 2nd one was done Jan 2015 yet Yeager who did the extraction but does not know the contents. LOL he gave them the Evidence Control number. If you look at the video and look at the Pros Boring (?) he has his head in his hands a few times and is very much frustrated.

JMHO