TRIAL - Ross Harris #1

[arkansasmimi]

IMO it is entirely clear that LE went into RH's phone during the time he was being interviewed. What I also think is clear is that LE did indeed immediately, as in minutes after arriving at the scene, believe RH murdered Cooper.

Don't know if that was even before RH was detained, but IMO, I'm increasingly suspicious they made that leap because RH cursed at them when asked to get off the phone. Remember- not one word in the warrants about RH acting "suspicious" or "unemotional" or the like, or the fact he was detained.

LE detained RH, and took his phone. They thought he was talking with someone rather than staying by his son's side, and they obviously thought that was suspicious. Note their developing narrative about RH and CPR- last take, brief CPR, stopped trying to save Cooper, jumped onto his phone. (May help explain why they came down so hard on Ms. Gray. They had been sooooo sure there was something deeply hinky about that call.)

LE had his phone. RH wasn't telling them what they wanted or expected to hear, or hears what they want to hear, including about that internet research, or..they take what he said about watching a TV show and clicking on a vet PSA and twist his words to come up with what was unquestionably the most incendiary piece of "evidence" in the search warrants, not to mention, if one looks at the thing...the ONLY piece of "evidence" in the warrant applications.

I think they looked at his phone, saw that he had been sexting all day, and believed they had found their motive. I imagine they were convinced on the 18th that their search warrants would give them access to evidence aplenty, enough to bury that little slight exaggeration about RH's searches.

What's interesting IMO is that Murphy backpedalled on that research thing on June 24's warrants. Note the change in claims about what RH told them he researched. Why was that?

The focus instead was on financial motivations, marital problems, and narrowing in on the car seat as evidence of intent, this time excuse me, lying flat out about the strap settings.

LE "went big" within hours on the 18th, and IMO much of what came next and next was about doing whatever they had to do to rationalize their original crossing of lines and rush to judgement.

Agree. And as a note both Escamillo and Stoddard both worked in Crimes Against Children. Not sure about any of the others.
I can understand and respect from a LEO perspective how some things make your hinky meter go off. Comes with experience sadly as a big part. But I also expect them to go by the law just as it is written.

That is why I am also confused on this Escamillo and that sting. If you believe his testimony why was that prostitute not arrested? One on probation in their county at that. Why were their prior plans not to arrest her? Det kept repeating that they only wanted to confirm that that was her phone number. Ok I get that. But he said they did not need RH ID'ed . Then they cough have issues with the wire that he was wearing that taped the meeting being transferred? How convenient. JMHOI

 

[arkansasmimi]

I'm trying to put together a timeline, including LE's trial testimony, to figure out "what LE knew and when they knew it."

RH wasn't indicted until Sept 5, 2014, and his bond/probable cause hearing not until September 24, 2014. LE knew by then that eyewitness testimony didn't support their supposition RH had acted oddly at the scene. What did they know by then of RH's (didn't make them) searches?

LE's entrapment of D. the prostitute happened in Sept. 2014. IMO that suggests LE knew by then how unsupportable their case was for intent, and that they had already begun working on the bad character angle. Jmo

Bond and Probable cause hearing or one was on 7/3/14 what was that one for?

 

[blue22]

My post was not about the other witnesses. It was about Detective Stoddard and his testimony.

Sorry!

There was talk about LE coaching regarding this testimony. I was incorrect in who was talking about that.

 

[minor4th]

Quote button not working ...

Hope4More - I have also been thinking that all the evidence of texting and sexting on the day Cooper died is strong circumstantial evidence that he really did forget Cooper was in the car. Of course he wouldn't be engaging in that behavior if he planned Cooper's death, knowing police would find this on his phone and use it against him. He was clueless!

 

[DexterMorgan]

I am not sure that I totally agree with the first half of the above bolded statement. I agree with the last half. They are not proving intent.

But I also think that if the reason for 'forgetting' a child is because a parent is distracted by selfish, inane , petty things, ----then that is also the heart of the question. And imo, that is enough to make it a criminal neglect GUILTY verdict.

Agree. The charge should have been negligence and not malice intent.

Because the negligence is seeable but wanting sex doesn't prove he had malice intent to kill Cooper.

 

[GA_Peach]

Quote button not working ...Hope4More - I have also been thinking that all the evidence of texting and sexting on the day Cooper died is strong circumstantial evidence that he really did forget Cooper was in the car. Of course he wouldn't be engaging in that behavior if he planned Cooper's death, knowing police would find this on his phone and use it against him. He was clueless!

Another option is that RH never thought that he would be investigated for anything. He would merely be a sympathetic victim who could be a spokesperson for his cause. Perhaps, that's why the contents of his phone weren't a source of concern.

What time was Ross's phone confiscated and by whom? I thought that his phone was with him in the back of the patrol car.

 

[Hope4More]

I am not sure that I totally agree with the first half of the above bolded statement. I agree with the last half. They are not proving intent.

But I also think that if the reason for 'forgetting' a child is because a parent is distracted by selfish, inane , petty things, ----then that is also the heart of the question. And imo, that is enough to make it a criminal neglect GUILTY verdict.

I don't disagree about the negligence. And I think it will very much matter to the jury what so preoccupied RH that day. If they approach that question not convinced RH had intent, then I agree, his choice of preoccupation is the heart of the matter of forgetting.

I can easily imagine a scenario of the jury not exactly following jury instructions, but coming up with a consensus "compromise" they think is just. No to charges involving intent , but yes to criminal negligence even if some jurors don't think what happened meets that standard, but are equally not OK with RH getting off without time locked away. Just speculation, of course.

 

[arkansasmimi]

I'm trying to put together a timeline, including LE's trial testimony, to figure out "what LE knew and when they knew it."

RH wasn't indicted until Sept 5, 2014, and his bond/probable cause hearing not until September 24, 2014. LE knew by then that eyewitness testimony didn't support their supposition RH had acted oddly at the scene. What did they know by then of RH's (didn't make them) searches?

LE's entrapment of D. the prostitute happened in Sept. 2014. IMO that suggests LE knew by then how unsupportable their case was for intent, and that they had already begun working on the bad character angle. Jmo

HARRIS JUSTIN ROSS [D]
SEXUAL EXPL CHILD,
VIOL COMPUTER ACT,
VIOL COMPUTER ACT,
SEXUAL EXPL CHILD,
VIOL COMPUTER ACT,
VIOL COMPUTER ACT,
VIOL COMPUTER ACT,
VIOL COMPUTER ACT
STATE v HARRIS JUSTIN ROSS
03/04/2016 16900761 STALEY CLARK


HARRIS JUSTIN ROSS [D]
MURDER,
MURDER,
MURDER,
CRUELTY TO CHILDREN,
CRUELTY TO CHILDREN,
CRIMINAL ATTEMPT,
FURNISH SEX EXPLICIT MATERIAL,
FURNISH SEX EXPLICIT MATERIAL
STATE v HARRIS JUSTIN ROSS
09/04/2014 14903124 STALEY CLARK
https://ctsearch.cobbsuperiorcourtclerk.com/Results

 

[Bently]

IMO it is entirely clear that LE went into RH's phone during the time he was being interviewed. What I also think is clear is that LE did indeed immediately, as in minutes after arriving at the scene, believe RH murdered Cooper.

Don't know if that was even before RH was detained, but IMO, I'm increasingly suspicious they made that leap because RH cursed at them when asked to get off the phone. Remember- not one word in the warrants about RH acting "suspicious" or "unemotional" or the like, or the fact he was detained.

LE detained RH, and took his phone. They thought he was talking with someone rather than staying by his son's side, and they obviously thought that was suspicious. Note their developing narrative about RH and CPR- last take, brief CPR, stopped trying to save Cooper, jumped onto his phone. (May help explain why they came down so hard on Ms. Gray. They had been sooooo sure there was something deeply hinky about that call.)

LE had his phone. RH wasn't telling them what they wanted or expected to hear, or hears what they want to hear, including about that internet research, or..they take what he said about watching a TV show and clicking on a vet PSA and twist his words to come up with what was unquestionably the most incendiary piece of "evidence" in the search warrants, not to mention, if one looks at the thing...the ONLY piece of "evidence" in the warrant applications.

I think they looked at his phone, saw that he had been sexting all day, and believed they had found their motive. I imagine they were convinced on the 18th that their search warrants would give them access to evidence aplenty, enough to bury that little slight exaggeration about RH's searches.

What's interesting IMO is that Murphy backpedalled on that research thing on June 24's warrants. Note the change in claims about what RH told them he researched. Why was that?

The focus instead was on financial motivations, marital problems, and narrowing in on the car seat as evidence of intent, this time excuse me, lying flat out about the strap settings.

LE "went big" within hours on the 18th, and IMO much of what came next and next was about doing whatever they had to do to rationalize their original crossing of lines and rush to judgement.

IMHO... The reason that law enforcement went directly to murder was the that Cooper was in rigor mortis. Of the cases that I have viewed over time.. finding a dead child in the backseat is somewhat immediate upon the adult reentering a car...and prior to rigor.

Bells and whistles perhaps went off because that meant hours since death and due to the rigor mortis.

 

[GA_Peach]

Just curious, how are so many posters determining that the State overcharged before they have finished presenting their case?

 

[Bently]

I Googled "crown to rump" and "rump to heel" measurements. They are measurements used to determine the gestational age of an embryo or fetus, which explains why the numbers don't match. I have no idea why the measurements were included for a 22 month old toddler. Perhaps the ME took those measurements because of Cooper's body position due to rigormortis - remember, his legs were bent from sitting in the car seat. Hopefully he will explain when he testifies.

Regardless, the relevant measurement is the overall length - aka height. According to the autopsy report Cooper was 33" in length.

http://www.babymed.com/fetus-crown-rump-length-crl-measurements-ultrasound
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crown-rump_length

This has been discussed so much I decided to do what somebody in the Jodi Arias case did. I try to replicate to understand.

I just did a measurement on myself standing up.

I did another measurement on myself from the back of my body with my feet up on a chair in front of me.(rump extended?)

The difference was 5 inches!

I'm not sure what significance it has as to how the measurements were done... but I would love for other members to do the same thing if they have any interest in such so I don't think I'm just bat&hit crazy for doing this measurement

 

[Cuddlyrunner]

forgive me if I ask something that has already been covered, this case isn't get a lot of coverage in the Uk and I missed the trial starting. Do we know if he was sending the pics to his wife every day to prove he had dropped Cooper off or just taking a daily pic, if the former then it is suspicious that he stopped then this adorable toddler died so soon afterwards? I also cannot get my head around him dropping the lightbulbs to the car at lunchtime and not seeing his child then, I think it is more likely he went then to 'discover' the body and poor Cooper was still alive so was left again.
Sadly, from what you are all posting from the trial so far, I am afraid of another verdict like that of Caylee. I swore then I would never get emotionally involved with a case involving a child but you just can't help it can you? Not when you see their trusting, smiling faces in pics.

 

[magnolia]

And if all these witnesses that did smell something, were having their testimony coached to them...

Wouldn't they also say they smelled decomposition? Wouldn't they (or he) want uniformity in their testimony? Wouldn't they want witness testimony to reinforce Stoddard's testimony?

IMO, people described the smell differently, because that's what they thought they smelled.

Sorry!

There was talk about LE coaching regarding this testimony. I was incorrect in who was talking about that.

I will reply to your post tho. No, they (he) would not want uniformity in the testimony. Quite the opposite.

 

[arkansasmimi]

Another option is that RH never thought that he would be investigated for anything. He would merely be a sympathetic victim who could be a spokesperson for his cause. Perhaps, that's why the contents of his phone weren't a source of concern.

What time was Ross's phone confiscated and by whom? I thought that his phone was with him in the back of the patrol car.

I thought it was to Peach, til I went back and watched grrr video and then saw on there that Piper took it on the scene when put him in the car.

 

[Bently]

It crossed Stoddard's mind because he used the word "decomposition" when describing the odor. An odor, my I add, that he smelled well over an hour after Cooper had been removed from the car. He used the word to describe the odor left by the deceased after being dead for an estimated five hours. I cannot believe the lead detective did not know any better. I started doubting this detective's credibility after listening to the AJC podcast #2. IMO

The A JC podcast was the first Enlightenment for many! I was shocked when they went against police force statements.. that is not normal for that newspaper.. So gave more weight at the time for their veracity of their statements for that podcast

O/T... The Rolling Stones lawsuit starts on Monday..the rape that hit the media and.... false... ?

I just tried to find a thread here for that case..and I cannot .. perhaps it is inappropriate because it is off topic

 

[minor4th]

Anybody else kind of suspicious of Lt/Capt Ferrel?

 

[arkansasmimi]

IMHO... The reason that law enforcement went directly to murder was the that Cooper was in rigor mortis. Of the cases that I have viewed over time.. finding a dead child in the backseat is somewhat immediate upon the adult reentering a car...and prior to rigor.

Bells and whistles perhaps went off because that meant hours since death and due to the rigor mortis.

Per Stoddard they change it to Murder after they got the Autopsy Report back with Hyperthermia (from heat). He testified "that prior it was because they thought it was because he didn't have water or something in the car" that was at a hearing iirc Dec 15 2015

 

[MsMarple]

This has been discussed so much I decided to do what somebody in the Jodi Arias case did. I try to replicate to understand.

I just did a measurement on myself standing up.

I did another measurement on myself from the back of my body with my feet up on a chair in front of me.(rump extended?)

The difference was 5 inches!

I'm not sure what significance it has as to how the measurements were done... but I would love for other members to do the same thing if they have any interest in such so I don't think I'm just bat&hit crazy for doing this measurement

Yeah, I don't know why those measurements were included or how they were done - I can find no information of crown-rump, rump-heel being of any value other than determining the age of an embryo or fetus so I'll wait until the ME is on the stand to explain it.

To be clear, my posts were intended for one reason - to agree with another poster that Cooper's height (33") exceeded the maximum height (30") the car seat manufacturer stipulates. I think I understand why some posters prefer using the crown to rump and rump to heel measurements and frankly I don't care anymore. Both numbers are clearly stated - if the car seat manufacturer wanted to use crown to rump and rump to heel measurements then those measurements would be in the manual. They're not - and for a good reason. I'm satisfied that Cooper exceeded the height maximum so I'm finally done with this subject.

 

[arkansasmimi]

Anybody else kind of suspicious of Lt/Capt Ferrel?

:wave:

 

[DexterMorgan]

Another option is that RH never thought that he would be investigated for anything. He would merely be a sympathetic victim who could be a spokesperson for his cause. Perhaps, that's why the contents of his phone weren't a source of concern.

What time was Ross's phone confiscated and by whom? I thought that his phone was with him in the back of the patrol car.

But wouldn't he have previously googled Hot Car Death Arrest.

Or Are You Automatically Arrested After A Hot Car Death Accident.

Or something.