Trial - Ross Harris #3

[Maisiebelle]

I've never witnessed behaviour like Apo's in my life. I think he's on the spectrum, he very clearly has behavioural issues.

Kilgore is good at what he does. He gently presents while going in, for what he thinks, is the kill. I have a problem with him, though.

For one who once advocated, and prosecuted, child cruelty cases to now have a practice whose core is based on defending child molesters, sexual, and drug offences is anathema to me.

I wonder what makes a lawyer take cases like this. Could it be that they are such believers in everyone being entitled to a fair trial that they can look past the crime?

 

[katydid23]

Yes! That is exactly the point I was making. There is some conduct that is criminally negligent when it results in a child dying - like driving drunk and causing a car accident. But forgetting your child in the car while driving to work because you're tired, depressed, overwhelmed, etc. is not criminally negligent conduct in my opinion.

But imo, if the REASON for that fatigue, is that one was sexting others, including minors, which is illegal, then couldn't that be considered criminal negligence?

 

[arkansasmimi]

Originally Posted by arkansasmimi View Post
Stoddard testimony and Greg Sanders from HD Security doesnt match up on some things. One especially being" RH did not bend down a bit"as Stoddard testified. Also the portion of the video where RH is walking back to the building at lunch. Where the person walks buy and RH appears on the phone. Sanders testified no RH did not turn his head, was either looking at phone or ground. LOL Stoddard, well he couldn't tell and said of the video "it is what it is" Boring in leading got him to say something else, and Def Objected but the Judge overruled. And the times in parking lot varies too.

Quote Originally Posted by JerseyGirl View Post
at this point, is it really that important of a detail?

JMHO... Let me see, Trial is still going on, the State has not even rested, the Defense has yet to put on their case. OH and Cross on Stoddard has not even began. Yes, it is important now as much as it was when the State called their witnesses to get this on the recor
But I guess if you don't think any of the testimony and evidence is important, it may not be. It's not tv where you just turn off the program http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?319821-Trial-Ross-Harris-3&p=12890558#post12890558

Originally Posted by arkansasmimi View Post
JMHO... Let me see, Trial is still going on, the State has not even rested, the Defense has yet to put on their case. OH and Cross on Stoddard has not even began. Yes, it is important now as much as it was when the State called their witnesses to get this on the record.

But I guess if you don't think any of the testimony and evidence is important, it may not be. It's not tv where you just turn off the program

I didn't say that the testimony and evidence aren't important, it's just that you are nitpicking about inconsistencies that have very little importance. http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?319821-Trial-Ross-Harris-3&p=12890565#post12890565

JMHO, we are at that point in Cross, will see..

 

[arkansasmimi]

Off to catch up before return to court from lunch..

Looks like another Witness has been impeached (well we will see when Stoddard returns after reviewing his interview with HD Security Guard Wesley Houston) That LH was who told him RH was going to the movie with Winston.

From the interview with LH and RH she said she learned from Terrell D, who had saw on tv and recognized RH car. LH arrived at LAA at 4:51 p.m. long after the time that RH tried to call her,

RH was detained an back of Piper patrol car at 4:27:04 per the 911 CAD report

 

[FinallyRegistered]

MULTIPLE things happened during that particular day that should have reminded him, but yet he didn't remember. Is he really that distracted and unable to remember?? It's not like the day was full of a huge work load - he spent the day encountering many reminders of his child.

I don't get it.

If you think of it from the perspective that, in Ross’ mind, he had ready dropped Cooper off at daycare, then a reminder does nothing; that task was complete.

 

[katydid23]

Planning a hook-up in the car on the 18th. Yeah, that's inconsistent with intent.

But intent can be just a matter of moments. Maybe he decided within that 30 second span to just 'forget' to go to daycare...

 

[Hope4More]

But intent can be just a matter of moments. Maybe he decided within that 30 second span to just 'forget' to go to daycare...

I believe that hook-up invite came later in the day?

 

[Inthedetails]

If you think of it from the perspective that, in Ross’ mind, he had ready dropped Cooper off at daycare, then a reminder does nothing; that task was complete.

Yes, to an extent. The fact that he didn't indeed drop him off was also somewhere in his sex-addled brain. It could have been triggered....after multiple reminders including a question from his wife if he got to work ok.

If he were totally absorbed in important matters - like his job, for example - I could understand he didn't pay attention to the reminders throughout the day. But he was goofing off all day, texting about his son, etc. and still didn't remember. That's really, really hard to believe.

jmo

 

[Hope4More]

Off to catch up before return to court from lunch..

Looks like another Witness has been impeached (well we will see when Stoddard returns after reviewing his interview with HD Security Guard Wesley Houston) That LH was who told him RH was going to the movie with Winston.

From the interview with LH and RH she said she learned from Terrell D, who had saw on tv and recognized RH car. LH arrived at LAA at 4:51 p.m. long after the time that RH tried to call her,

RH was detained an back of Piper patrol car at 4:27:04 per the 911 CAD report

Seriously? The guard lied about RH telling him he was going to the movies??

 

[arkansasmimi]

Quote Originally Posted by Inthedetails View Post
Ross himself said he had a double life.

I agree but penis picture next to child's picture does not equal double life and Stoddard was riled up when he made this point, He was explaining and looking at the jury during this testimony. He actually got testy during this part of his testimony.

I would think it fair to say any one with an addiction (at least of that kind or as in drugs) leads a double life in that definition. Something they don't want others that not doing it to know. JMHO and I agree he did get testy. More to come on that... Does he not know only answer the questions asked and with shortest answer possible? LOL I guess he does not "recall that"

 

[justkk]

Why would he often have to enter a password if he had a biometric sign on? And, fgs, people routinely forget info like that, especially under stress, much less under the stress of being " interviewed" by police about the extremely recent death of his son.

ETA. Another possibility, it occurs to me, is yes, he didn't want to give up the password because if it's true he did research relating to the crime of sexting with minors, he had to be a very worried man indeed that the police had his phone and wanted to search it.

IMO that fear alone would very much help help explain his attempt to play nice with Stoddard.

I am just going on my own experience with the same phone (I also have biometric password - my thumbprint). There are many times where your fingerprint just doesn't read (sweaty, positioned wrong, etc...) Then there are the times where on certain apps or features the phone actually says "you must enter your password" for whatever reason - I am sure someone here can be more specific to that, I just don't question it, LOL!
IMO, it would be pretty lucky that he didn't have to enter that password at least a few times a day given how much he used his phone.
Not to mention that his password was his anniversary.... So it's not just random.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[katydid23]

If there was any suspicion or history of abuse or neglect, that would be reflected in the police report? Kilgore said.

“No one reported to me any history of abuse or neglect,” Stoddard said.

Your testimony is that Harris’ activities on Whisper and Kik are evidence of abuse and neglect of Cooper, Kilgore said.

It led up to the death of Coop,” Stoddard said.

Let’s look at the objective evidence of Harris’ relationship with Cooper, Kilgore said.

Harris spent time at Little Aprons with Cooper, attending special events. He once brought his dad to the daycare to show off Cooper. Sometimes Harris would show up at the center in the middle of the day just to hang out with his son.

I wonder what the jurors will take from these visits to daycare. My suspicious jaded mind makes me think he was going there to get close to the female employees...

 

[arkansasmimi]

I was wondering that myself. I don't remember hearing the answer (though I have missed parts of the trial)

however, I googled it and it appears it was posted on reddit June 13, 2014 so he may have seen it there. ( i have no idea if I can link it so I am not but you can google "site:reddit.com dont leave pets in car" and its the first result)

LOL Stoddard testified that he himself had seen it on youtube (at PC hearing iirc) because it was a viral video at the time. Going around on FB and other social media.

 

[AuntB]

Catching up this morning. I just wanted to comment on a couple of things mentioned upthread...

Who can testify to help Ross? My two cents... I think he needs mom and/or LH to testify that Ross has a history of being disorganized, forgetful, irresponsible and/or easily distracted. Also, he needs LH to say that Cooper fell asleep quickly in the car after a meal? Being his ex-wife, if she still supports Ross, that may carry some weight with the jury (moreso than if she was still his wife, I mean). So far, he seems pretty gleeful about his behavior; so, it would be great if the defense could produce someone to say that Ross was really struggling with his out-of-control behavior.

Regarding the phone password: I think Ross hoped that the bio-metric excuse would prevent the police from pursuing the phone. When the detectives persisted about the phone, he figured he better "remember" his password in order to appear cooperative.

Why Ross didn't mention returning to the car at lunch: He's trying to talk his way out of this with a slap on the wrist. Withholding any suspicious behavior in hopes the police won't dig deeply enough to discover his behavior is his best bet. He knows it looks bad that he returned to the car midday. JMO

 

[katydid23]

Yes every parent's job is to keep their children safe. That said, a variety of accidents happen to children in the care of the parent and the parents shouldn't be, and plenty of times aren't, charged. I don't think it's fair to make a blanket statement that something happening to one's child is automatically due to negligence. For example- Read a story over the summer. Mom had her children packed up from the pool. Floaties off, older child (5) was sitting in a chair next to her with a towel wrapped around her and flip flops on ready to go. Mom turned her back to help the 3 year old with their flip flops. Keys in her hand, pool bag on. This was a 30 second task and then they would be on their way. In that 30 seconds the 5 yr old saw a toy floating in a pool. Got up, walked over to the pool and bent over to get the toy. She fell in and due to her lack of her swimming skills and the weight of the wet towel she must not have been able to swim to the side. This was a loud pool with lots of kids so the splashing didn't even register on her radar. Another child helped the girl up but again, due to the towel and limited attention to what transpired this was no easy task for the child. Little girl lived but it was touch and go and I believe has brain damage. Was mom negligent becuase she turned her back to assist the second child? Total accident IMO despite her not being able to keep the kid safe in that moment. Does the mom blame herself? Sure probably everyday! Does she feel she was negligent ? She probably does but criminally negligent? Doubtful

NO< mom was not negligent in the criminal sense. But if she had been sitting in a lounge chair sexting minors, while her 5 yr old fell in, then I would vote for Criminal Negligence in that case.

 

[Hope4More]

Honest question (not snarky) - do they have to point that out? Can't the jury infer that sexting lead him to neglect his child? Or does the jury have to be instructed on that?

The State needs to make it's case for each of their charges against RH. The jury isn't allowed to infer that evidence presented in support of one charge is transferable as evidence of another.

The jury will be instructed to consider each charge separately, and asked to determine if the State met it's burden of proof on each. So far, the State hasn't met that burden of proof on criminal negligence, imo, because they haven't made any connection between the evidence they've presented and the charges relating to negligence.

Please correct me, Minor, if any of that understanding is inaccurate .

 

[Inthedetails]

The State needs to make it's case for each of their charges against RH. The jury isn't allowed to infer that evidence presented in support of one charge is transferable as evidence of another.

The jury will be instructed to consider each charge separately, and asked to determine if the State met it's burden of proof on each. So far, the State hasn't met that burden of proof on criminal negligence, imo, because they haven't made any connection between the evidence they've presented and the charges relating to negligence.

Please correct me, Minor, if any of that understanding is inaccurate .

They aren't done yet.

jm non-legal opinion

 

[arkansasmimi]

I'm sure he probably would have hopped in the girl's car, just like he did with his co-workers at lunchtime.

Since he wanted to stop at home depot to pick up lightbulbs, he should have driven his own car to lunch that day (with his co-workers) rather than inconvenience his co-worker who did the driving.

Why didn't he offer to drive that day? hmmm.....

His friends said it was easier for them to come get him and was not unusual, RH did drive sometimes.RH had them convince them to even go, since he was leaving early. Per chats from that day. It was not like the State tried to insinuate that he only told them he would go if they drove. Taken out of context is what has been done over and over in this case.

 

[katydid23]

I didn't know that. That's pretty deceptive for police to call that researching deaths in cars. It's a viral video. Over 2 million views.

I think the main thing they wanted to show was his comment ; [paraphrasing]---'would be horrible if that happened to my son', [or something similarly worded]

 

[minor4th]

Is child cruelty based on the parent knowing they are neglecting the child or can it be by accident?

It can't be just an accident, but it doesn't necessarily have to be intentional. It can be be due to reckless conduct that poses an inherent danger to human life.