Trial - Ross Harris #4

Status
Not open for further replies.
  • #81
I believe that is a term that this "expert" has concocted and is profiting from his testimony. In this case the sexting behavior ties in with his personality, his motivation, and his selfishness. Someone asked if we believed JRH would have forgotten his cell phone in his car? Can we all agree with a resounding *NO*? That kind of sums it up and shows his true priorities in my opinion.

I agree completely about the "expert." He had an idea and is making money off being charismatic for defense attorneys.
 
  • #82
Unthread someone mentioned (sorry not sure who) that if this was RH biggest fear, why hasn't he don't any research on how to prevent it, or take any actual steps to prevent it?
The more I think about it, this is a really great point.
My kids are older teens now, and don't remember hot car deaths being much of a thing discussed then (or again could be that I live in a very mild climate - even though it can get warm!).

However, I was paranoid about everything when they were babies, toddlers, even grade school age. My friends teased me about it. One big one was I was petrified someone would come in the second floor window and take my baby in the middle of the night [emoji23]. Even though we didn't really have the money to spare I insisted on getting a monitored alarm system.
I had a big fear of kidnapping for a time and constantly read up on how to discuss it with my younger kids etc...
Too many other examples to bore people with!

BUT, the point is, if you actually say something is your BIGGEST FEAR, and it sounds like there were resources giving info on preventative measures to take, why wouldn't you take them?
Me thinks it was something that he had "thought" a lot about lately, but maybe wasn't necessarily his biggest fear....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

BBM

I totally agree. I think he thought about the possibility a lot.
 
  • #83
To accommodate all the new people coming to Websleuths because of the docuseries we are moving to a much bigger and faster server.

This is just a reminder that the Websleuths forum will be down starting Wednesday (tomorrow) at 6 PM Eastern. We hope to be back up by Thursday morning.

Members can check for updates on Twitter and Facebook.
 
  • #84
I thought you all were saying he could not be on the phone....and I knew I remembered all the discussion about him being on a phone...so was it at a later time???? He was on the phone at the crime scene correct? Good Lawd I am behind.

yes from the crime scene his phone made 3 calls. He got confused on the calls when he told Stoddard he was on the phone with LH and they made him hang up.

Under Direct:
4:24 missed RH to LH (she didnt pick up)
4:25 missed went to vm LH to RH **She didn't get to LAA until 4:51
4:25:20 to HD main office (from Def exhibit)
4:25:57 - 4:31:10 (5min 13 sec)

4:27:04 CAD 911 shows RH was detained. Kilgore asked if sometimes the officer in a high stressed situation like that will get the subject detained then contact dispatch afterwards and Stoddard stated yes. There was a lot of stuff going on (can hear on dash cam of Officer Piper) and she took his phone. So that most likely when the call was accidentally made.

Per testimony today 10/25/16
 
  • #85
If Ross planned this, why do you think he swore at Officer Piper?

He's been around LEO. Presumably, he knew it's a bad idea to curse at people in authority--especially authority that can cuff and detain you.
 
  • #86
If Ross planned this, why do you think he swore at Officer Piper?

He's been around LEO. Presumably, he knew it's a bad idea to curse at people in authority--especially authority that can cuff and detain you.

He did a lot of things in the immediate aftermath that a person would not do if they were guilty of malice murder and trying to make it look like an accident. I am too tired to list them right now, but I'll get back to it tomorrow.
 
  • #87
Think about it this way (in terms of time).

RH pulled into the center, tires squealing, jumped out of the car and opened the back door. He had a difficult time getting Cooper out of the seat, a good Samaritan helped. Witnesses have begun arriving by now. RH attempts CPR, briefly, the good Samaritan takes over. A witness calls 911 at that point, LE has already been called.

LE arrived at 4:21, and iirc, it took Piper only about a minute to get there when she heard the call over her radio. In between the time the 911 call was placed and the time LE arrived, RH walked away from his car and made a call to Leanna, who didn't answer. His next call was to daycare (iirc), again no answer. That was not the 6 minute call.

LE arrived either when he was making/had made the 2nd call (or possibly when he had just dialed that 5 odd minute call?). He couldn't have been speaking to anyone on the phone, because none of those calls reached anyone.

He was detained, cuffed, and his phone taken away within mnutes of LE arriving. The records show he was detained at 4:27, though I'm unsure if that's when he was placed in the car, or when he was cuffed and his phone was seized by Piper.

The "6 minute call" was placed at 4:25. So, either RH never made the call, or he had dialed it but hadn't connected with anyone before the phone was seized. What he didn't do, in any case, was stay on the phone for 6 minutes, ignoring his dead baby on the ground, and what he didn't do, despite how many times Stoddard says it under oath, is talk on the phone to anyone, including poor Ms. Gray.


(Please to correct me, anyone, if I have any part of that wrong).

Hey just thought of something else. No biggie but it always bugged me that Stoddard said at the PC hearing 7/2/14 that "Anthony " did CPR. Hawkins is who did CPR but he left after LEO showed up. His name was not on the Crime Scene Log. I just curious when between 6/18 and 7/2 they found out Hawkins did the CPR. One would think right away as they spoke with "Anthony" on scene.

I know under Hawkins testimony he said that Murphy iirc called him and did a phone interview. He said he left immediately because he had lost a dtr in an accident the year prior. (felt bad for him he broke down on the stand)

Remember Kilgore asked Stoddard in situations like that (the situation being Foglia telling RH get off phone, cussing and detaining him) that sometimes they get the subject detained then let dispatch know and Stoddard stated yes. * plus you can hear it on Piper dash cam. Can't remb if it had time stamps where we can see or not. But their print out had it
 
  • #88
If Ross planned this, why do you think he swore at Officer Piper?

He's been around LEO. Presumably, he knew it's a bad idea to curse at people in authority--especially authority that can cuff and detain you.

And take away the phone you're on and refuse to put away, even though it has evidence of criminal activity on it that has worried you enough (allegedly) to look up how much time you'll spend in prison if caught.
 
  • #89
I really and truly think he is guilty of criminal negligence. I think despite faults, that much has already been proven no matter what the defense does. I also think I am leaning toward felony murder, but I can't decide that until all evidence has been presented. In my gut, I think he did this on purpose. However, I think there is no way the state can prove intent. Short of a confession, I don't see how anyone could prove intent with a situation like this. I would be very surprised if he were convicted of malice murder, but not on the other charges. JMO. (I personally do not think he's being overcharged. In the interest of justice for Cooper, I'm glad he was charged with murder even if there isn't a conviction for it.)

**As far as the charges regarding minors, he obviously did that. He will be convicted of those, IMO.

On the charges re minors, I think the Def (because of the obj to that fact) are saying his phone was illegally seized.
 
  • #90
]I don't see where it was perjury? He said he was mistaken when he first put that in the SW.[/B] And he said that now he stands by the fact that RH clicked on the links, although he didn't really search for them. So he is pushing the envelope perhaps, and parsing words---but perjury? I am not so sure.

You say there is no evidence that it was a murder. I think it is up to the jury. But this detective came from the crimes against children department. He has seen a lot of vile, evil ugliness in his career. So I can understand why he might be suspicious and see things in a jaded way. Especially when he sees how close the car seat was and how short it was from CFA to the daycare exit. Who wounding think it was intentional? Especially after seeing the texts from that exact time, saying he needed an escape from the responsibilities of family life. I think it was a logical deduction that this was on purpose, not an accident at all.

Once they got a better software program they found that he did not actually do those searches. That is problematic---granted. And it may mean he is found Not Guilty of premeditated. But I am not going to accuse the detective of framing him or being nefarious. I think he was looking for JUSTICE for little Cooper, nothing more.

per·ju·ry
ˈpərj(ə)rē/
nounLAW
the offense of willfully telling an untruth in a court after having taken an oath or affirmation.
 
  • #91
per·ju·ry
ˈpərj(ə)rē/
nounLAW
the offense of willfully telling an untruth in a court after having taken an oath or affirmation.

There is a difference between perjury and being mistaken or doing a poor job investigating fully.
 
  • #92
Hey just thought of something else. No biggie but it always bugged me that Stoddard said at the PC hearing 7/2/14 that "Anthony " did CPR. Hawkins is who did CPR but he left after LEO showed up. His name was not on the Crime Scene Log. I just curious when between 6/18 and 7/2 they found out Hawkins did the CPR. One would think right away as they spoke with "Anthony" on scene.

I know under Hawkins testimony he said that Murphy iirc called him and did a phone interview. He said he left immediately because he had lost a dtr in an accident the year prior. (felt bad for him he broke down on the stand)

Remember Kilgore asked Stoddard in situations like that (the situation being Foglia telling RH get off phone, cussing and detaining him) that sometimes they get the subject detained then let dispatch know and Stoddard stated yes. * plus you can hear it on Piper dash cam. Can't remb if it had time stamps where we can see or not. But their print out had it


I'd like to know exactly what time a call was made by LE to bring in CAP, ie, Stoddard. If it was made before 4:27, I will be even more suspicious about why Piper chose to detain RH.

Detaining RH allowed her to seize his phone. RH being on the phone was one of the primary reasons Stoddard assumed guilt, imo

Having RH's phone and searching it BEFORE a search warrant was issued either for the phone itself (SW issued for the phone itself after 10pm on 6/18) or for conducting searches on it (SW for content on phone issued on 6/24) was imo possibly Stoddard's reason for having RH detained.
 
  • #93
Quote Originally Posted by arkansasmimi View Post
The teachers testimony did not reflect that he ate at home more than school. Stoddard plain did not have a clue.
He did not needlessly harass any witness. He Cross examined them. Direct only asks questions or read chat/texts that they wanted to bring out. But not the whole context. And that is what Cross is for and did. Just like JM, State did note bring out the fact that per her testimony on Direct alone..she testified spoke or textex every day. Not true. They also made it sound like RH was chasing after her someone that didn't want contact from him. Neither of which were true and proven by Cross.

Again the individuals in the parking lot. Proved he didn't do a thorough investigation there, nor did he make note in his report of allegedly giving date/times of those very people walking by car.
[/B]
BBM
I think Kilgore just looked silly in that part of the cross. He may have tried to show that it was not a 'thorough ' investigation. But it seemed phony to try and make that accusation. What were any of those people, who OBVIOUSLY saw nothing, going to add to the investigation?

Kilgores job is to create reasonable doubt. The only OBVIOUSLY is that no one contacted LEO (that we know of) Now what will be crazy and very possible is if Def located any of these people or subpoena Jeff Pardon from HD Corporate Security. Seems like there was something Def tried to get Sanders to answer but he couldn't. Stoddard testified he gave those 2 individuals times of the people walking by, yet didn't note them in reports. Questions are asked for a reason. I would be curious if I were a juror. JMHO
 
  • #94
On the charges re minors, I think the Def (because of the obj to that fact) are saying his phone was illegally seized.


The DT asserted in their 12/2015 Motion to Suppress (electronic evidence) that the phone was illegally seized , and searched illegally before a SW was issued for either the phone or a search of what was on the phone. Staley denied that motion in 1/2016.

Kilgore has been objecting ever since, to preserve the issue for appeal.
 
  • #95
He at at home that morning
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
In the video of RH alone he told Stoddard and the other Det Cooper ate a sausage biscuit
In the video with RH and LH he told her the same thing.
 
  • #96
He did a lot of things in the immediate aftermath that a person would not do if they were guilty of malice murder and trying to make it look like an accident. I am too tired to list them right now, but I'll get back to it tomorrow.
I almost choked when Stoddard said that RH turning around to see what was going on Behind him with his son (Stoddard said he told RH when he was in car where they were taking Cooper. So no reason for him to have asked any more- some ask that) But Stoddard thinks that he should have sat in the patrol car and looked striaght ahead. :waitasec:
 
  • #97
Just went back and looked over my notes of Ferrell testimony...

Ferrell testified on Cross that he chose Stoddard in part because he had experience from Crimes Against Children, "sexual offense crimes" ** how would he know that then?
At crime scene I mean, to testify like that?
Chose Stoddard and Murphy because they both had experience Crimes Against Children. (he called them to the scene)
Said when was told child left in care, in his mind a criminal case.
Def it was determined a homicide before anyone was interviewed.

**Shumpert testified that Ferrell called him to the scene too
 
  • #98
Bringing this over from thread 3.

I agree, I think if schools will call about absent students, then day cares should call about absent babies and toddlers. In fact it makes even more sense because like you said there's any number of scenarios where a baby or toddler being absent should send alarm bells. It might be a pain to some parents (then don't become a parent!) but if it will save lives, why not?

I'd like to think that after this trial there's going to be a "Cooper's Law" signed into effect, written with the provision that day care centers are required to notify parents if a child does not show up on days they are supposed to. Even if it were a robocall it would be better than nothing.

And really setting up a robocall would constitute no extra work for the daycare as it would be automated. After all parents have to call in work if they are not going to be there, and schools already do the robocalls. Frankly, as many kids who die in hot cars every year I am surprised it is not already required.
 
  • #99
If Ross planned this, why do you think he swore at Officer Piper?

He's been around LEO. Presumably, he knew it's a bad idea to curse at people in authority--especially authority that can cuff and detain you.

He did a lot of things a guilty man would do trying to prove he was innocent. Starting with forgetting all day about his son dying in a stifling hot car. His wails at the scene produced no tears and his driving a dead child from work yo shopping center mafdmafde no sense at all.

Detective Stoddard had been around the block a time or tweo and what he was seeing and hearing rang all kinds of bells to this seasoned detective.

Pointing out anything that he might have done wrong in his hours and years of investigation is ridiculous.

If you wish to be angry with anybody please don't make it the man that investigated this case.

Direct your anger toward the father who should have protected his poor, little, innocent son til his death.

He should throw himself on the mercy of the court for what he did to Cooper.
 
  • #100
Stoddard looked ridiculous denying he knew the term- he knew exactly what it meant. I think Kilgore asked the question to give the jury a term for what they've been hearing about Stoddard's investigation.

It really is staggering to me how much evidence Stoddard ignored and twisted/manipulated along the way to "justify" charging RH with malice murder.

This! I was sure prior to the trial he was as guilty as can be. Now....I still am concerned about the distance from the car seat to Ross, his height factoring into that, and needing to get into the other lane for the daycare so soon after leaving CFA.

But, finding that a lot of stuff just wasn't as it was made out to be (example him searching for a child free life) has made me almost want to lean over backwards to think reasonable doubt. It feels like a mental knee jerk reaction. I would not want to be party to a witch hunt.

I agree that his reaction (and hers) was not what I would expect. However, I would like to know if perhaps that is not the case in other situations? I am wondering if he falls somewhere on the autism spectrum? I may have said this before, but that would also explain her behavior as she would know she would have to help him. If this is the case then DEF should bring it out when it's their turn.

Of course, that does not include the sexting or saying he wanted to be free of his wife and the things he said about Cooper. A lot of stuff to be sorted through.

It does make me mad though to think that some of the things they presented early on were no where near as bad as we were made to believe. I would hate to think I would be judged on every link I was sent and clicked on.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
136
Guests online
2,735
Total visitors
2,871

Forum statistics

Threads
633,185
Messages
18,637,487
Members
243,438
Latest member
DavidG915
Back
Top