Trial - Ross Harris #5

[TexMex]

Heart wrenching post, and I agree. I think (as in many cases), it's very difficult to wrap our brains around a parent
who would/could intentionally get rid of their own offspring.... it's un-fathomable to us, but WS is filled with these types of parents.

IMO the state succeeded in revealing who JRH really is, a narcissistic sociopath, who's a deprived sexual predator without remorse. When someone shows you who they are, believe them.

Yes ma'am. Ross reminds me of Scott Peterson.

 

[TexMex]

One of the things that bothers me the most about this trial (aside from Cooper being baked to death in a hot car) is how JRH claimed he couldn't divorce his wife because of Cooper, but on the other hand heaped out free advice to people unhappy with their situations telling them to "just leave" even if they had kids.

IMO there are many ways JRH would have benefited from Cooper's death, and one way is that by leaving Cooper in the car LH might have taken the initiative and file for divorce so he wouldn't have to. He says in his own text messages that he deserves to be divorced. Okay, so why doesn't he practice what he preach and just get a divorce like most normal people do? I think it's because he wouldn't have gotten as much sympathy if he did. If JRH had not been caught, he'd probably be out right now complaining to his various girlfriends "My child died and my wife left me. Life has been so unfair."

IMO JRH was a manipulator who also knew how to position himself as the victim. Just look at how this trial has gone - the sympathy he's raked in is ridiculous.

I agree. He would be the bad guy if he filed for divorce. If she ever filed he knows he's stuck with giving about 1/3 of his 60K salary to her in child support for 16 years. Plus insurance, plus college fund and a million other expenses.
But...if there's a tragic death of their child...suddenly there's no financial drain. He gets sympathy and IMO within 3 months they separate, then divorce...happens all the time after the death of a child. He's free.

 

[Cardinal47]

Something I ask myself each court date. Where are the Ross Harris supporters? Where is his family, friends, coworkers and church group? I have not seen one person that knows Harris sit behind the defense team and support him? Yes a few might be witnesses but certainly not all.

His brother has testified why isn't he there with his wife? Harris much have parents, aunts and uncles, cousins or friends. Where are they?

Maybe they are just as disgustedd as most of us are and want nothing to do with him. The worst of the worst have family support in the courtroom. Think Jodi Arias, Casey Anthony and Scott Peterson.

My biggest fear is that even though many posting here see Harris for what he is there are many here that believe Harris rights must be protected more than Coopers. That always scares me about a jury.

I for one stand for Cooper.

 

[Hope4More]

JMO Hope but I t guyhink killing Cooper was his way of getting rid of his wife. Ross expressed pain over living his double life. He expressed his bank account was suffering. He desired to be single. He wanted to feel free to "drink and bang strangers". Divorce is expensive. Why bother with it when all he has to do to be free is close a car door and walk away?

To dispense first of one lesser thing, RH actually expressed delight, not pain, about having a secret double life. The "pain" he spoke about to women who he wanted to get into his pants was the "pain" of not having the sex life he wanted with his wife. Boohoo.

RH seems to have been unfaithful to his wife for years, based on the texts etc brought into trial. The (few) texts about wanting to be single and the one text about Cooper and his bank account were written in May, 2016.

What happened in May? Leanna wanted more children, and she wanted another child before Cooper was 3. They were planning on buying a house, rather than continuing to rent a condo. RH had anticipated receiving a promotion, but didn't, applied for a job at CFA (relating to IT, I presume) but had been rejected.

There is no evidence of any financial difficulty. IMO, Ross just didn't have the emotional maturity to recalibrate his expectations , and to buckle down and work on whatever he needed to. At least, not immediately, and not in May. He was (allegedly) depressed in May, and though we don't have any context at all for his May texts (sound familiar?) what seems to be the case, imo, is he turned to sex and sexting like another man might turn to drink or drugs.

Was he coping well with reality? No. Was he behaving recklessly? Yes, especially since he apparently was well aware of how illegal it was to be sexting with minors. Was he endangering his wife's emotional and physical well being? Yes, obviously, especially by having sex with prostitutes, a man, and sexting with half of the women in Cobb County.

But, Tex, you and I have recent PhD's in sociopaths and sociopathic behavior. Killing your baby so you don't have to make child support payments is not run of the mill terrible, imo, it's sociopathic. Thing is, there is no evidence whatsoever RH was any such thing, and unlike , RH had close friends, supportive family, and not a person yet I've heard about who didn't think RH loved his son and was a perfectly normal person.

IMO, only a sociopath could have, for any goal, sat in his office sexting after he deliberately chose one of the most painful ways imaginable to kill his baby, sexting as that murder happened slowly .

Doesn't add up. Criminal negligence? Probably , but will wait to hear the defense's case, which, after all, just began.

 

[Hope4More]

So you think he just quietly cooked from the inside out without a thought of his daddy's whereabouts? No crying or screaming for "daddy"? Just chilling out and peacefully slipping into the night....

I guess all those scratches and abrasions from him frantically trying to free his little body was made up....

If you want to discuss, please read what I actually posted. And, no, Cooper did not in fact have multiple scratches and abrasions from trying to free himself , thank God, and, I have no interest in trying to imagine the terrible death Cooper suffered. The fact of it is intolerable enough, thank you.

 

[Gardenista]

Something I ask myself each court date. Where are the Ross Harris supporters? Where is his family, friends, coworkers and church group? I have not seen one person that knows Harris sit behind the defense team and support him? Yes a few might be witnesses but certainly not all.

His brother has testified why isn't he there with his wife? Harris much have parents, aunts and uncles, cousins or friends. Where are they?

Maybe they are just as disgustedd as most of us are and want nothing to do with him. The worst of the worst have family support in the courtroom. Think Jodi Arias, Casey Anthony and Scott Peterson.

My biggest fear is that even though many posting here see Harris for what he is there are many here that believe Harris rights must be protected more than Coopers. That always scares me about a jury.

I for one stand for Cooper.

They will likely be called as defense witnesses and can't be in the courtroom.

 

[Rocco]

Something I ask myself each court date. Where are the Ross Harris supporters? Where is his family, friends, coworkers and church group? I have not seen one person that knows Harris sit behind the defense team and support him? Yes a few might be witnesses but certainly not all.

His brother has testified why isn't he there with his wife? Harris much have parents, aunts and uncles, cousins or friends. Where are they?

Maybe they are just as disgustedd as most of us are and want nothing to do with him. The worst of the worst have family support in the courtroom. Think Jodi Arias, Casey Anthony and Scott Peterson.

My biggest fear is that even though many posting here see Harris for what he is there are many here that believe Harris rights must be protected more than Coopers. That always scares me about a jury.

I for one stand for Cooper.

What I don't understand is the cheerleading that goes on for the defense. 'Hooray Hooray, the prosecution just got over ruled' or 'Bravo, the defense just scored big with that question!'
<modsnip>

 

[Cardinal47]

Well, our founding fathers didn't see it that way, and were concerned enough about the power of State that they made sure to include in the Constitution of the United States of America such items as restrictions on the State's ability to pursue citizens at will.

May you never have occasion to find yourself in the position of reconsidering the wisdom of your views on search and seizure.

I don't think our founding fathers ever expected what happened to Cooper at the hands of his father. Can you even imagine them imagining a little boy dying in a hot car while his father sent pictures of his penis!

This is a whole new ballgame from what our founding fathers ever imagined.

 

[Safeguard]

Was he sleeping when he scratched his face? Was he sleeping when the car door slammed and his daddy left him to die in a hot car?

I don't think he was asleep at all. He had a nap that morning, he had breakfast and was looking forward to 'school'.

Those car doors don't really "slam". They are quite quiet, when you close them. Adding 'creative drama' doesn't make it make it anymore likely that cooper was awake, or that RH intentionally killed him. It is a belief that you have. I believe he was most likely sleeping, as RH got out of the car. Neither of us know what was true in that moment, but my hypothesizing that the child had a full belly, was still a little tired, and drifted off, perhaps lulled by the motion of the car, (for however short a time!), would be as valid as your claim that the door was slammed.

I find the opinion that RH must be guilty, because of his moral failings, to be a case of the, "Just Look At Him" conviction. Very little actual proof. And even though some spin compelling narratives, of a cold cunning man, who had no warmth or love for his child, there IS actual proof, that that was simply not so, according to those who actually KNEW him. I can't hang a murder charge on a man, ( no matter how personally repulsive I find him), on other peoples creative writing abilities.

 

[TexMex]

To dispense first of one lesser thing, RH actually expressed delight, not pain, about having a secret double life. The "pain" he spoke about to women who he wanted to get into his pants was the "pain" of not having the sex life he wanted with his wife. Boohoo.

RH seems to have been unfaithful to his wife for years, based on the texts etc brought into trial. The (few) texts about wanting to be single and the one text about Cooper and his bank account were written in May, 2016.

What happened in May? Leanna wanted more children, and she wanted another child before Cooper was 3. They were planning on buying a house, rather than continuing to rent a condo. RH had anticipated receiving a promotion, but didn't, applied for a job at CFA (relating to IT, I presume) but had been rejected.

There is no evidence of any financial difficulty. IMO, Ross just didn't have the emotional maturity to recalibrate his expectations , and to buckle down and work on whatever he needed to. At least, not immediately, and not in May. He was (allegedly) depressed in May, and though we don't have any context at all for his May texts (sound familiar?) what seems to be the case, imo, is he turned to sex and sexting like another man might turn to drink or drugs.

Was he coping well with reality? No. Was he behaving recklessly? Yes, especially since he apparently was well aware of how illegal it was to be sexting with minors. Was he endangering his wife's emotional and physical well being? Yes, obviously, especially by having sex with prostitutes, a man, and sexting with half of the women in Cobb County.

But, Tex, you and I have recent PhD's in sociopaths and sociopathic behavior. Killing your baby so you don't have to make child support payments is not run of the mill terrible, imo, it's sociopathic. Thing is, there is no evidence whatsoever RH was any such thing, and unlike , RH had close friends, supportive family, and not a person yet I've heard about who didn't think RH loved his son and was a perfectly normal person.

IMO, only a sociopath could have, for any goal, sat in his office sexting after he deliberately chose one of the most painful ways imaginable to kill his baby, sexting as that murder happened slowly .

Doesn't add up. Criminal negligence? Probably , but will wait to hear the defense's case, which, after all, just began.

Idk Hope. I think he's another Scott Peterson.

Everyone loved Scott. Handsome, college grad had a job. Great golfer. Beautiful pregnant wife who enjoyed decorating the nursery in their nice suburban home. His family loved him, so did hers. He seemed excited to have a son to be born very soon.

Thing is...Scott had a double life. He hit on women all the time. He'd call them, make himself out to be a big shot (in reality he's a fertilizer salesman) meet up and drink and bed them. One became his mistress. Scott truly was terrified that he was about to be a father. He'd be expected to be home more. He'd be stuck in his modest house with his modest salary having a modest life. He thought he deserved better. He deserved freedom to chase women, golf, do as he pleased. He wasn't really mad at his wife but resented the prospect of being tied down. The clock was ticking. Baby due in weeks. Should he divorce? He's a narcissist. He doesn't want to be that guy..divorce a pregnant woman, pay money every month for a child he never wanted. Plus, man...his family....her family...it'll just be bad. The other option...the one he chose? The baby would never be born! His pregnant wife would "disappear" and all his responsibilities along with her. He killed her, put her body in a new boat he'd just conveniently bought, dumped her in SF Bay, came home and reported her "missing". Then he ordered some channels for his DishNetwork package. A day later he's calling his mistress (luckily Scott predates texting!) from his missing wife's memorial service.

To me, by making Cooper disappear from the scene...Ross will then free himself from his wife without further obligation. He splits any property (no house, just a car IIRC) and move on. He will have the life he feel he deserves.

So yes, I think he's a sociopath.

 

[just the facts pls]

Something I ask myself each court date. Where are the Ross Harris supporters? Where is his family, friends, coworkers and church group? I have not seen one person that knows Harris sit behind the defense team and support him? Yes a few might be witnesses but certainly not all.

His brother has testified why isn't he there with his wife? Harris much have parents, aunts and uncles, cousins or friends. Where are they?

Maybe they are just as disgustedd as most of us are and want nothing to do with him. The worst of the worst have family support in the courtroom. Think Jodi Arias, Casey Anthony and Scott Peterson.

My biggest fear is that even though many posting here see Harris for what he is there are many here that believe Harris rights must be protected more than Coopers. That always scares me about a jury.

I for one stand for Cooper.

BBM. Same here. I am astonished that anyone would argue on behalf of JRH, especially after everything we've learned about him. It's not like JRH is a relatively good guy with a few embarrassing indiscretions in his past. We're talking about a man who displays an immense amount of selfishness, treated his family like obstacles to getting free sex, and admitted he lived a double life. He said himself he doesn't have a conscience.

We're not talking about a normal family guy who falls off the rails once or twice. We're talking about a man whose own friends and family didn't know him. A man who refuses to take responsibility for his actions and portrays himself as a victim when being held accountable for his behavior. A man who felt he was intelligent enough to argue with police about whether causing the death of Cooper was against the law. A man who only cried in the interrogation room because he was worried that people would hate him as opposed to losing his firstborn son. A man who goes to church and talks about temptation while seeking out barely legal hookups behind everyone's back. The list goes on and on.

Even if I believed Cooper's death was an accident (I don't), I certainly wouldn't be going to bat for this guy. This isn't the right sword to fall on, so to speak. JRH is bad news. He shouldn't be allowed to roam free to ruin anyone else's life or "accidentally" kill any more kids. I can only imagine what would happen if he found a love interest with children from a previous relationship. This isn't a guy we want moving next door to us, or talking to our teenage daughters (or teenage sons for that matter). Surely there are other defendants worth arguing about over the internet. This one isn't.

 

[SuperTmo]

His brilliant attorneys should have objected to the white socks when they saw them on the doll but they didn't.

They object to everything else, so that must go to show what a non-issue it was...

 

[Cardinal47]

Those car doors don't really "slam". They are quite quiet, when you close them. Adding 'creative drama' doesn't make it make it anymore likely that cooper was awake, or that RH intentionally killed him. It is a belief that you have. I believe he was most likely sleeping, as RH got out of the car. Neither of know what was true in that moment, but my hypothesizing that the child had a full belly, was still a little tired, and drifted off, perhaps lulled by the motion of the car, (for however short a time!), would be as valid as your claim that the door was slammed.

I find the opinion that RH must be guilty, because of his moral failings, to be a case of the, "Just Look At Him" conviction. Very little actual proof. And even though some spin compelling narratives, of a cold cunning man, who had no warmth or love for his child, there IS actual proof, that that was simply not so, according to those who actually KNEW him. I can't hang a murder charge on a man, ( no matter how personally repulsive I find him), on other peoples creative writing abilities.

Nobody knew him. Nobody. I am sure his wife suspected. His church group thought the chubby guy playing the guitar was great.

Then Cooper died in a hot car due to his fathers either plan or negligance and Harris was caught with his 'pants down' and they all went away. Everybody that thought him one thing found out he was another!

 

[SuperTmo]

Why would your child be screaming in distress as you are within sight, pumping gas?

If you've never had occasion to be able to hear a child even just routine having fun or being tired or being angry yelling loudly enough to be heard outside your car , then yes, we must live in different realities.

But, imo there isn't much basis for a meaningful discussion anyway, given your apparent belief that most children who die in hot cars have been murdered by their parents, and that to believe the State must prove RH guilty is to want RH to walk.

I never said screaming in distress, did I? What's with everything you say being so dramatic? Weird. Usually she is trying to get my attention to ask a question or to see if she can get a candy. I tend not to leave my child in the car ecgept to pump gas right next to her, so why would a responsible parent have the opportunity to hear a kid screaming from a closed up vehicle? It is unreasonable to expect random passersby to hear Cooper from outside the car when his own dumb dad didn't hear him from 6" away. Right.

 

[SuperTmo]

It's what defense attorneys do! Here's a child who's body temperature rose above 107 so he died. Here's his father a self described as living a double life and sex addict who's expressed desire to be single, expressed resentment over his bank account being drained by his son (hey, hookers are expensive).....but look! Look over there! Something shiney! It's a police badge! They're framing my client!

Well yes, defense attorneys do that...but I was referring to posters here who just keep doubling down and blaming everyone but RH.

Yes, hookers cost way more than I thought if she was pulling in $125 for 30 minutes of her company! I'm glad she was seemingly able to turn her life around. I appreciated her testimony because I'm sure it isn't something she is proud of.

 

[JudyBolton]

Those car doors don't really "slam". They are quite quiet, when you close them. Adding 'creative drama' doesn't make it make it anymore likely that cooper was awake, or that RH intentionally killed him. It is a belief that you have. I believe he was most likely sleeping, as RH got out of the car. Neither of us know what was true in that moment, but my hypothesizing that the child had a full belly, was still a little tired, and drifted off, perhaps lulled by the motion of the car, (for however short a time!), would be as valid as your claim that the door was slammed.

I find the opinion that RH must be guilty, because of his moral failings, to be a case of the, "Just Look At Him" conviction. Very little actual proof. And even though some spin compelling narratives, of a cold cunning man, who had no warmth or love for his child, there IS actual proof, that that was simply not so, according to those who actually KNEW him. I can't hang a murder charge on a man, ( no matter how personally repulsive I find him), on other peoples creative writing abilities.

Oh but there is the key phrase (BBM) - they thought they KNEW him. None of these people apparently knew he was texting teenagers, sending photos of his penis, visiting prostitutes, having sex with another man, etc. So perhaps there were other character flaws related to Cooper that they also did not KNOW about.

 

[catpatrol]

What I don't understand is the cheerleading that goes on for the defense. 'Hooray Hooray, the prosecution just got over ruled' or 'Bravo, the defense just scored big with that question!'
<modsnip>.

By the same token, it's strange how worked up people get about the defense's objections. It's not a sign of desperation or an admission of guilt. It is literally their job to defend RH.

 

[Cardinal47]

They will likely be called as defense witnesses and can't be in the courtroom.

All of them? His brother has already testified so he and his wife could sit in court.

Casey Anthony's mother and father testified and sat in court every single day.

I think everybody has abandoned him. Nobody wants to be associated with the likes of him.

I do feel a little tiny bit of a soft spot for those three defending him. As men, husbands and fathers I bet it's all they can handle to do their job as defense attorneys for this creature.

 

[Safeguard]

Idk Hope. I think he's another Scott Peterson.

Everyone loved Scott. Handsome, college grad had a job. Great golfer. Beautiful pregnant wife who enjoyed decorating the nursery in their nice suburban home. His family loved him, so did hers. He seemed excited to have a son to be born very soon.

Thing is...Scott had a double life. He hit on women all the time. He'd call them, make himself out to be a big shot (in reality he's a fertilizer salesman) meet up and drink and bed them. One became his mistress. Scott truly was terrified that he was about to be a father. He'd be expected to be home more. He'd be stuck in his modest house with his modest salary having a modest life. He thought he deserved better. He deserved freedom to chase women, golf, do as he pleased. He wasn't really mad at his wife but resented the prospect of being tied down. The clock was ticking. Baby due in weeks. Should he divorce? He's a narcissist. He doesn't want to be that guy..divorce a pregnant woman, pay money every month for a child he never wanted. Plus, man...his family....her family...it'll just be bad. The other option...the one he chose? The baby would never be born! His pregnant wife would "disappear" and all his responsibilities along with her. He killed her, put her body in a new boat he'd just conveniently bought, dumped her in SF Bay, came home and reported her "missing". Then he ordered some channels for his DishNetwork package. A day later he's calling his mistress (luckily Scott predates texting!) from his missing wife's memorial service.

To me, by making Cooper disappear from the scene...Ross will then free himself from his wife without further obligation. He splits any property (no house, just a car IIRC) and move on. He will have the life he feel he deserves.

So yes, I think he's a sociopath.

Scott Peterson lied about having a wife and expecting a child. He wanted a future with Amber, by all accounts. Ross never lied about being married. In fact he made it quite clear he was only looking for temporary escapism. I see no comparison between him and SP. None at all. In fact, he stood to gain nothing by getting rid of his child. He was already acting out any way he choose. Leanna and Cooper were more of an asset to him, than any hindrance. SP's family was clearly in his way, of the good life with Amber.

 

[Rayemonde]

I think it's possible RH didn't see Cooper, or even if he did get a glimpse of him out of the corner of his eye, didn't register what he was seeing. If his mind had gone on autopilot and he didn't think Cooper was in the car, didn't expect to see him and wasn't looking for him, he could have failed to notice him even if he was in his line of vision.

Like in the invisible gorilla experiment, where scientists showed a video of people passing a ball between themselves and told their subjects to count the ball passes in the video. In the middle of the video a guy in a gorilla suit walks in between the people playing ball, thumps his chest, and walks off again. Fully half of the subjects were so engrossed in counting the ball passes that they did not see the gorilla and had no memory of it afterwards. If your mind is on other things, you can fail to see what is right in front of you.
http://theinvisiblegorilla.com/gorilla_experiment.html