Trial - Ross Harris #5

[Hope4More]

I also think he premeditated it but the proof is thin. There were reports that some jurors cried at the ten minute car viewing. My thought is they may have wanted to believe that this was a mistake, an accident, that a parent wouldn't do this purposely. But after seeing the defendant every day, then seeing the small area where RH sat, with Cooper so close....they knew. They knew it was very possible he had planned it. As the defense said it was devastating.
JMO MOO and IMO

Or, they cried because they were looking at the exact place where a baby had died, and they had all the information to imagine him there, before, during, and after.

 

[dizzychick]

There are a lot of people commenting about Dr. Diamond as if it's just some theory he's drummed up to make money off of. There are people commenting who don't understand FBS. I'm going to put some links here that also show other researchers studying the same thing. Secondly, FBS and a "false memory" go together, they are part and parcel of one another. I'm seeing a lot of people splitting them up. Finally, please read the comments on the articles. A surprising number of people have written in telling about their close calls. It's worth the time to read up on some of the memory studies and how the brain works.

https://www.bundoo.com/articles/forgotten-baby-syndrome-why-parents-leave-children-in-hot-cars/

http://www.bundoo.com/community-blog/dr-sara-responds-to-reader-comments-on-forgotten-baby-syndrome/

http://www.kidsandcars.org/child_story/jenna-edwards/

http://www.************.au/fatal-distraction-prevention/

http://www.************.au/they-for...ar-the-question-everyone-wants-to-ask-is-how/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/life...e0fe3a-f580-11e3-a3a5-42be35962a52_story.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2009/03/04/DI2009030402198.html

http://psychology.usf.edu/faculty/data/ddiamond/baby-sy.pdf

I don't think FBS is what happened in this case, but I do think forgetting may be behind it Let me explain. Have you ever played a video game and lost track of time? Have you ever been so immersed in virtual reality that you don't notice what is going on around you? I once played a new game and spent all night at it, not realizing I had done so until the rest of the family started getting up. Another example, although a benign one, has to do with my dog. She loves to play fetch and I noticed a few times while immersed in a virtual game that I wouldn't notice her bringing me a toy and I would only notice it later when I noticed the toy left on the floor next to me . After that I have made an effort to pay attention more. My hubby is a programmer and when he's "in the zone" I used to joke we could have monkeys hanging on the ceiling fan and he wouldn't notice!

None of the above is an excuse but it might possibly be an explanation. I think it's possible RH was just so glued to his phone and texting that he really didn't pay any attention to what was going on around him. Ever have to avoid hitting someone at a cross walk because they were glued to their phone? If that happened he still is guilty of Cooper's death. Remember a few years ago when a couple of new parents got so caught up in the newest release of a computer game they let their baby starve? I'm not up on the law but wouldn't this be manslaughter or criminal neglect?

I have a hard time believing RH planned to kill his son, mostly because he seems like he is too big a "doofus" to come up with one and too lazy to carry it out. Pretty much RH shouldn't be responsible for taking care of anything including a house fly.

I could buy this 100 % if he had realized the mistake sometime during the day or at lunch, but to go all day and wasnt there a phone call about who would pick Cooper ? at any rate its hard I guess once the idea has been suggested that the accident might not be an accident.

If this had happened in the 80's it would have been called a tragic accident and that would be the end of it. Nowadays people are just more sinister thinking and imagine the worst of people. Only he and God knows for sure what happened. What is to be done about this , I have no idea, I would say no more kids, he's not trust worthy at the very least, but to spend life in prison, I dont think that is right. I feel for this jury..

 

[Aleph]

I agree. That wet diaper baked in the car with the sweat and the odor would have been strong, imo. And the car seat was inches away from the drivers seat. It's really hard for me to believe it did not smell in that hot car.

Me too. I've accidentally left one of those rotisserie chickens in the car for a few hours and even that stinks when you open up the door.


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[Aleph]

I don't think the smell was relevant to the SW. Everyone knew he was dead. I don't think the car smelled, I think Cooper smelled. Once he was not in the car and the door was standing open, why would it stink in there? Whether it stunk or not is not an issue for me because RH would have absolutely seen Cooper when he got in his car and put his stuff on the passenger side. There is no way he wouldn't have seen him.

I actually have a Chicco infant seat in my garage and I drive a Honda CRV. I'm only 4'10.5" so my view would be different but I'm tempted to go install it and see what I see.

It would be very interesting to have our own source of pics in this thread!


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[Hope4More]

Plus, there are other cases where a parent has left a child in a hot car all day and then driven around doing errands with the body in the car - and they never smelt anything. Unless all of those parents intentionally murdered their child, it shows that it is possible to forget your kid is in the car and then drive around with their body without smelling anything.

That's a really good point, especially since in the few I've read about, LE acknowledged they had no reason to believe the deaths anything other than accidental.

 

[arkansasmimi]

Regarding Dr. Bhushan Agharkar and Dr. David Diamond from Motions in Hearing 8/19/2016 **Dr. Agharkar is going to testify about how people react to stress and trauma differently.**

Agharkar has served as a defense witness in the area of forensic psychiatry in death penalty cases in Georgia and Arkansas, according to media reports.

Diamond is identified on the University of South Florida’s website as a professor, whose Ph.D. is in cognitive and neural sciences. His research, according to the site, includes studies of the neurobiological issues surrounding “Forgotten Baby Syndrome,” or the “failure to remember that a child is in one’s car.”

Testimony from the two as to the credibility of Harris, or their opinion on Harris’ mental state surrounding the day in question, would constitute hearsay and would therefore be inadmissible, prosecutors allege.
No date has been set for Staley to hear arguments on these state motions as well as several filed last week by Harris’ defense team
http://www.mdjonline.com/news/distr...cle_b146a2d6-011e-11e6-8ee1-9fa70c332a31.html

****Just prior to Kilgore doing his OS, prior to the Jury being brought in, State brought up the Motion of Dr. Diamond and 3 pages of what Kilgore believes is "work product" Boring does not know what it is but it has been put into a sealed envelope and Judge Staley will address when comes time.
On a Motion that State wanted Judge to grant, that Dr Agharkar couldn't give his expert opinion as to whether RH was genuine and truthful at the scene and CCPD.
State had argued that they don't want RH to be able to use an expert (Dr. A to explain statements w/o RH testifying. Notes from State and Dr A (fact that doesn't like to show emotions in front of people. cop talk, comfortable around LEO)Staley denied that and said there would be no argument, could proffer at time (not really sure I understand what she meant there)

[video=youtube;04P_S8mjiws]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04P_S8mjiws&index=5&list=PLoW1SIeAWaWbf04BP39GOR3AoF3_lKX-3[/video]

 

[Rayemonde]

Memory is a strange thing, and the mind can play tricks on you. Just because it's never happened to you, doesn't mean it could never happen to anyone...

My mother once left my brother outside the pharmacist in his stroller whilst she picked something up (we lived in a very safe area). Then she walked straight past him and walked on home without him. I'll have to ask her for the exact details - I wonder if she was picking up something for my brother from the pharmacist, and if he was asleep, and I can't remember if she got all the way home before she remembered him, or just a little way.

She genuinely forgot, and genuinely walked right past him when she should have seen him. It is possible the same happened to RH. Yes, she quickly remembered and ran back to the pharmacist to get him, but if she had been going to drop him at daycare rather than taking him home, it's possible that she would have assumed he was at daycare and gone about her day. Sometimes we forget something and then quickly remember when we see a reminder, but sometimes we don't. Even person and every situation is different.

 

[arkansasmimi]

On the Motions re Dr. Diamond. I am confused about some things and again there will be discussion prior to his testimony outside jury.

Kilgore stated that both he and the Witness knowing the law (Dr Diamond) will be reminded that he can not and will not give "ultimate opinion" can not say
not w/o malice
not intentional
not accidental
that RH is not guilty
not a criminal act
Kilgore said that the "ultimate opinion is with the jury"
Needless to say I think this could get heated. JMHO

 

[monkeypants]

The medical examiner -- the State's own expert witness -- said there would be no smell of decomposition at that time.

What about the sour sweat smell, hot ammonia urine...

 

[monkeypants]

I have a VERY difficult time believing there was NO strong smell of something "off", "different" in that car when RH got in after work. It defies logic. No one will ever know for sure but I think the jury will also be able to come to a logical deduction on this.
The reality is, there would be a difference between when RH got into a hot stuffy, possibly 125 degree car and what it smelled like, and 10 minutes and up to hours later (also having air on during drive, and then at least 2 of the doers open at the scene) when other people were in the car.
IMO


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This summer my daughter left a banana peel in the car one morning that I didn't know about , it was a 100 degree day and when I got back into the car to pick them up at 4 the smell was outrageous...I wanted to scream....I'm just saying, not comparing dead people to fruit, that anything out of the ordinary in your car left in a closed up tight oven atmosphere will absolutely change the interior smell of your car. Absolutely .

 

[Hope4More]

I can't imagine being Leanna this morning. The first time she'll be talking in public about what happened, and it'll be on the stand, testifying for the defense team trying to prevent her prodigiously unfaithful husband from spending the rest of his life in prison.

I hope for RH's sake that she cries and gets angry at the right places in her testimony, because IMO the jury is likely going to need to find her relatable to find her credible about anything she says about RH or his relationship with Cooper other than bare facts.

Otherwise, the State's obvious counter to her saying, for example, that RH loved Cooper with all his heart would be- just how well did you really know this man who said he loved you too, but who delighted -his words- in leading a double life, in which he betrayed you a hundred times over, including trysts with underage girls and prostitutes?

 

[arkansasmimi]

I thought this was an interesting comment to the Judge by Kilgore in ref to these motions:

Since the first time in any hearing, since the PC hearing 7/3/2014, we have realized the State basing on evidence, insinuating inactions and responses suggest knowledge. That this is a BIG PART OF THE STATES CASE, that they are going to try drive a truck through and Def has a right for Dr. A to testify. Kilgore said the State wants to cut out any evidence that suggests that RH not remorseful. See video linked upthread for possible misquote. Not my intention to misquote.

 

[Rayemonde]

A chicken carcass or a banana peel would start decomposing immediately in a hot car. But we're not talking about a dead body baking in a car for 8 hours. The State's own witness said that the car would have been shaded by trees for much of the time, and Cooper may still have been alive at lunchtime. Maybe he died after lunch and didn't wet his diaper until then.

 

[Rocco]

IF RH read it anywhere, it wasn't found on the mountain of documents from his computers, iPads iPhones. So Unless he heard it on tv.... Dunno

Didn't he say at the police station that this had happened to another father and that father went on to be an advocate for the the prevention of FBS------and that he might like to do that too?

 

[arkansasmimi]

I can't imagine being Leanna this morning. The first time she'll be talking in public about what happened, and it'll be on the stand, testifying for the defense team trying to prevent her prodigiously unfaithful husband from spending the rest of his life in prison.

I hope for RH's sake that she cries and gets angry at the right places in her testimony, because IMO the jury is likely going to need to find her relatable to find her credible about anything she says about RH or his relationship with Cooper other than bare facts.

Otherwise, the State's obvious counter to her saying, for example, that RH loved Cooper with all his heart would be- just how well did you really know this man who said he loved you too, but who delighted -his words- in leading a double life, in which he betrayed you a hundred times over, including trysts with underage girls and prostitutes?

Agree, and her life has been combed over with fine tooth comb for last 2 years by the public. Praying for her. She truly is a victim here too and I have wondered if her name is the name that was redacted on the Jury questionnaire. JMHO since it says Victim, I believe it has to be. RH and Cooper are both on there as well. JMHO if it were 2 minors as someone else had thought, wouldn't there be 2 redacted?

 

[catpatrol]

If the odor in the car was strong enough to immediately raise suspicion that there was no way that Ross could not have smelled it, why didn't police put it in their reports? Why make false claims for probable cause rather than explain the obvious stench that would have been impossible to not smell? That's hard for me to reconcile.

 

[arkansasmimi]

Didn't he say at the police station that this had happened to another father and that father went on to be an advocate for the the prevention of FBS------and that he might like to do that too?

Yes he spoke of another father and that the father was an advocate. I don't think he said anything about "forgotten baby syndrome" though. And not sure where he saw it. All the witnesses who as experts testified, no search for those words used in the SW. I do not think FBS was ever brought up. JMHO could be wrong. Kinda makes me wonder if it was on that PSA that they saw on the news in May 2014 of the Gov campaign. JMHO that would make sense.

 

[Hope4More]

On the Motions re Dr. Diamond. I am confused about some things and again there will be discussion prior to his testimony outside jury.

Kilgore stated that both he and the Witness knowing the law (Dr Diamond) will be reminded that he can not and will not give "ultimate opinion" can not say
not w/o malice
not intentional
not accidental
that RH is not guilty
not a criminal act
Kilgore said that the "ultimate opinion is with the jury"
Needless to say I think this could get heated. JMHO

Right. He's there as an expert witness to explain to the jury what FBS is and what triggers it, and to, under direct, respond to questions by the defense whether or not, in his expert opinion, the particulars of what happened that morning could have produced FGS, and if FGS could explain why RH didn't "remember" Cooper when cued at work, multiple times.

That's it. Experts aren't there to provide opinions about a defendant's culpability-- only the jury is allowed to make that determination.

 

[arkansasmimi]

If the odor in the car was strong enough to immediately raise suspicion that there was no way that Ross could not have smelled it, why didn't police put it in their reports? Why make false claims for probable cause rather than explain the obvious stench that would have been impossible to not smell? That's hard for me to reconcile.

The first on scene Anthony, that got into drivers seat and helped RH prior to Hawkins coming to help, he didn't note any smell in car. He was LITERALLY right in the drivers seat, as RH was unbuckling Cooper from car seat. He should have smelled something more than anyone being right there. JMHO

 

[JerseyGirl]

update from the courtroom this morning:

There was some discussion last week that the defense would put Leanna Taylor on the stand today, but that could not be confirmed. Taylor is Ross Harris's ex-wife and the mother of Cooper. She divorced Harris earlier this year but is expected to support her ex-husband in testimony. Court should convene for the day shortly.

http://www.ajc.com/news/local/minute-minute-the-justin-ross-harris-trial-oct/iy7epchBrIkfTAw7p4k7RK/