Trial - Ross Harris #7

[katydid23]

I'd just love to see Ross testify. IMO, there is no chance the defense will have him testify. He would convict himself.

Yep. The DT is in a tough position. Dr Diamonds testimony strongly emphasizes the totally innocent aspect of the parents, creating them as victims in the ordeal. And the jury wants to hear the innocent parent describe the horrors of what 'happened' to them. FBS can 'happen' to anyone, and the defendant just happens to be one of the victims of the FB Syndrome.

So it is kind of suspect if the 'innocent victim' does not take the stand to explain what happened.

 

[arkansasmimi]

Oh there is a 3rd Expert I was unaware of.. (going to see if I can find anything on that one)

Dr. Diamond (who has actually spoken with RH)

Dr. Bhushan Agharkar an expert in forensic psychiatry

And there is a Forensic Pathologist from San Diego, who looked over ME Dr Frist AR and had some disagreements. He would not speak to the DA because the DA would not pay the hourly rate to talk to him. :thinking:

So this is why Dr Frist was on recall. JMHO to have them back to back.

And Phil Holloway doesn't think they will be back to back (the experts) and he mentioned the recall of some State witnesses.

 

[katydid23]

Holloway said that there are cameras all over the HD parking lot and very obvious.

Wow never thought of this. Holloway just said that if the jury wanted to see the SUV again they can ask because was a piece of evidence. Hmmm at 44:00
Good point jurors were allowed to walk around the car, yet we never saw RH walk around the car.

I think maybe they were walking around the cars to see if the people walking by really could have seen anything. jmo

 

[ScotAng]

Has Dr. Diamond studied any cases of FBS where the baby was forgotten not just once but three times? Because in my mind that's what Ross did:
1. Forgot baby Cooper in the morning when he parked his car and walked in to the office.
2. Forgot baby Cooper at lunch when he dropped off the light bulbs.
3. Forgot baby Cooper when he left the office parking lot to drive to the theater.

One time maybe, I can understand in some instances. But I'm still not giving any parent a free pass on forgetting their child in the car. And in Ross's case, the three times he forgot baby Cooper speaks volumes to me.

JMO.

I understand what you're saying. But no such theory could exist in that scenario.

Dr Diamond's theory is based on the opposite - that Harris forgot Cooper was in the car at all. If he didn't forget him once, how could he forget him three times?

The State, on the other hand, may use it in Closing in some shape or form as they seek to convince of intent. Remains to be seen if they find an opening for it on cross, but would probably have more of an impact in Closing.

 

[ScotAng]

Holloway says consensus (among people he's watching with I assume) is the defense has conceded counts 6-8. That he'd likely get 10 years on count 6. Likely 1 year each counts 7 & 8. That judge often stacks sentences so 12 years. I think he said one count (not malice) life with possible parole is an option. That parole not considered until 30 years so that scenario would be 30 some years plus the 12 years. Then he's also facing 8 more charges involving sexting minors.
If it's malice murder it's lwop

Thanks so much Tex, got you now.

 

[arkansasmimi]

Quote Originally Posted by arkansasmimi View Post
Holloway said that there are cameras all over the HD parking lot and very obvious.

Wow never thought of this. Holloway just said that if the jury wanted to see the SUV again they can ask because was a piece of evidence. Hmmm at 44:00
Good point jurors were allowed to walk around the car, yet we never saw RH walk around the car.

I think maybe they were walking around the cars to see if the people walking by really could have seen anything. jmo

But there have not been any witnesses so far that were walking around the car. And each juror would see from different perspective than RH did in the video we saw from the Treehouse parking lot. Especially if they were my height of about 5'5. RH is 6'2.

JMHO I would want to see car also if I were on the jury.

 

[katydid23]

I understand what you're saying. But no such theory could exist in that scenario.

Dr Diamond's theory is based on the opposite - that Harris forgot Cooper was in the car at all. If he didn't forget him once, how could he forget him three times?

The State, on the other hand, may use it in Closing in some shape or form as they seek to convince of intent. Remains to be seen if they find an opening for it on cross, but would probably have more of an impact in Closing.

But there are examples cited by Dr Diamond, where the parents memories are triggered and they suddenly remember their child is in the car:

http://abcnews.go.com/Lifestyle/for...nts-nightmare-hot-car-death/story?id=40431117

At 1:15 p.m., Reeves met with her husband.[ at his office...]

"We were talking about how pretty [Ray Ray] looked that day and how her teacher would be so excited to see her," Reeves said. "She just moved to the 1-year-old caterpillar class. It was tropical day, the class theme. She was wearing the dress her teacher gave her for her birthday."

Amidst the couple's conversation, Reeves pulled into a restaurant parking lot. She said she had noticed how quiet her husband became when they began talking about their daughter.

"I didn't even get the car turned off and he said, 'Just go back to the office. Please go back to the office immediately.'" Reeves recalled. "I thought he had forgotten something and I said, 'OK, whatever.' I turned the car around got to the red light and he said, 'Run the light.'"

"I asked him, 'What's going on?' and then he told me: 'I can't remember dropping Ray Ray at day care this morning.'"



[ his wife triggered his memory that their baby was still in his car.]

 

[Zoobiegirl]

:waitasec: So when did the State prove beyond a reasonable doubt that RH murdered his son? When was the premeditation? Seems like they wanting it both ways on some things. I bet the jury is scratching their head at times.

Did anyone else see Evans lean his head back and look at the ceiling this morning. I find it interesting watching them. They cover their face, Boring puts his face in his hands with elbows on table. Or when Evans gets pissed, Lumpkin doesn't let his ruffled feathers show like the rest do. Rodriguez is diff too. Pretty interesting. JMHO Just glad they aren't acting like Jeff Ashton and his laughing.

In my opinion :moo: it was that moment right there they lost the case. It was just so totally unprofessional it allowed everything else they did to be easily questioned (for some people, I thought she was guilty as hell).

 

[dizzychick]

Just finished listening to some lawyer over at court chatter youtube. I was foggy on how long he could serve, looks like 30 years possibly with parole maybe not, the sex charges will land him in the clinker 12 years and thats pretty much a for sure thing, so his future does not look good even w/o the murder charges

sorry Tex I didnt read your post before I made mine we must have listened to the same video lol

 

[Rayemonde]

No, but IMO that doesn't mean it hasn't happened. Until recently, there was very little investigation into these situations. It was pretty immediately thought of as a tragic accident. I think it's likely there was a case, but we'll never know.

I am not convinced of intent in this case. At least, that it was proven by the state. One thing that has crossed my mind, that I can't shake...Ross might have left all his info on his phone, because he thought it would be viewed as a tragic accident. It would fit his personality, IMO. I don't know if I really feel that's the case, but it has crossed my mind.

If LE had arrested all the other parents who left their kids in hot cars immediately they did with RH, and seized their phones and computers, I wonder how much incriminating stuff they would find. All the parents who got public sympathy and were never ever suspected of doi g it on purpose - what if a search of their Internet history had turned up affairs, gripes about parenthood, sexting, addictions, weird fetishes, interest in "true crime" stories, news stories about hot car deaths, etc etc.... I feel like you could take anything like that and twist it to make it seem like a motive or a sinister double life. Judge WN wasn't arrested until months after his son's death, but what if they had arrested him and seized his stuff immediately and found things that portrayed him in a bad light? Maybe he would have been looking at murder charges too.

Was RH ever diagnosed with ADD or ADHD? Needing prompts like the text "get to work, OK?" from his wife may have been the pattern in his life all along. Even a coworker said that he forgot things that were told or asked of him in a short amount of time.

Maybe the defence will have an expert witness testify about something like that? Or would they already have mentioned it if he'd been diagnosed with something that could effect his memory...

 

[Rayemonde]

Has Dr. Diamond studied any cases of FBS where the baby was forgotten not just once but three times? Because in my mind that's what Ross did:
1. Forgot baby Cooper in the morning when he parked his car and walked in to the office.
2. Forgot baby Cooper at lunch when he dropped off the light bulbs.
3. Forgot baby Cooper when he left the office parking lot to drive to the theater.

One time maybe, I can understand in some instances. But I'm still not giving any parent a free pass on forgetting their child in the car. And in Ross's case, the three times he forgot baby Cooper speaks volumes to me.

JMO.

Yeah, quite a few have done chores and driven around in the car with the dead body in the carseat. Got in and out of the car several times, and never realised the baby was there, and never smelt anything.

Also, I read about one other case where the mother went to pick up the kid at daycare and when she was told he never arrived that morning, immediately said "His dad must have left him in the car". Just like Leanna did, and which was taken as a sign of her guilt.

 

[Rayemonde]

Judge Wade Naramore drove around doing chores with his dead son in the car, as we've already discussed. Never smelt anything, never saw him. Eta and he told LE that he and his son said their prayers together as he drove him to daycare that morning. And then promptly forgot he was there and left him in the car to die. That reminded me of RH saying he kissed Cooper on the lips just in case he died.

Benjamin Seitz's dad missed the turning for daycare, went to get coffee instead then drove to work and left his son in the car. Then he drove to lunch and back to work, and after work he drove daycare. All with the dead body in the back. Never smelt anything even though the child had been in the car for 7 hours. There was no indication that he'd done it on purpose.

Software programmer Seitz missed the turn-off to Benjamin’s day care and stopped off to get coffee on the way to work instead. He later drove to get lunch without noticing his son in the car, according to the arrest warrant.

After work, he went to the day care centre to collect his boy around 5pm, only to be told by staff that Benjamin had not been there that day.

http://www.news.com.au/world/kyle-s...t/news-story/097271ba763e017662bee030837dec49

 

[monkeypants]

That right there is my point.

No, the State doesn't have to prove motive, but surely it isn't asking too much of them to come up with a coherent narrative, a theory of the crime....something. But- --they haven't done so.

If Ross is guilty of malice murder, acting with intent, the premeditated murder of Cooper, what has the State argued about WHEN Ross began to plan Cooper's death? Was it in mid-May, when he sexted several ladies about wanting to be single and called Cooper a "joker"?

But then he waited until June 13 before "researching" hot car deaths? Why the wait, and why then, a month later? What was different?

**Stress, because everything was spiralling out of control? (check-argued).

** No stress, just an evolution of acting on his urges , this time to escape altogether? (check-argued).

**Randomly prompted, randomly timed, because MS. Meadows the Motive got back in touch with him that AM, causing his heart to swell with love, whereupon he set to sexting with 6 other women that day, as Cooper died? (check-argued).

All I see is a mish-mash of mush. The only constants I hear are: sex sex sex, bad bad bad, Ross is about sex and is bad (therefore he must be guilty).

I'm sure you will be satisfied with this issue in the closing.

 

[Hoosgirl]

And I agree with Catpatrol: “the state hasn't presented an inkling of evidence to compare him to a murderer.” I see a horrible accident.

O/T: It is not lost on me that there are no fence-riders left on this thread and we are as far apart as two sides can get; no amount of talking is going to move anyone from their “party line”. Reminds me of what I hear on the news every night with the elections a week from today. I’m so sick of fighting …

I'm on the fence!

Haven't had a chance to watch much but am following along.

I appreciate all the strong opinions - makes me think. So much my brain hurts over this trial, actually. I feel for the jurors.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[monkeypants]

I believe this and I think it is a good chance the jury did as well. JMHO

[video=twitter;793509354079080449]https://twitter.com/courtchatter/status/793509354079080449[/video]

Maybe from guilt after seeing all those beautiful baby pics and videos knowing she is helping his murderer go free....the venom she spat at the end portrayed her true feelings instead of the calm demeanor on defense....

 

[arkansasmimi]

[video=twitter;793968164044500992]https://twitter.com/PhilHollowayEsq/status/793968164044500992[/video]

 

[Cardinal47]

I was thinking Ross Harris height is a double edge sword.

Yes he would have seen Cooper while Ross was seated in the car.

His height might have kept him from seeing Cooper when he put the light bulbs in the car at lunchtime.

Re premeditation didn't I read it can happen in a moment?

I think when Ross left CF and should have turned right but turned left that's when he decided to end Coopers life.

 

[arkansasmimi]

:judge: courts on

 

[arkansasmimi]

First witness State has no problem with, 2nd they have provided a powerpoint...

 

[minor4th]

Good morning.

I had dreams last night of closing arguments.