Trial - Ross Harris #9

[monkeypants]

Would he put on his FB that he is in a relationship with her though?

Does he look like Ross.. is that her "type"?

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Will the jury understand and abide by the instructions given to them before they deliberate?

 

[Deleted member 39678]

What is YOUR opinion, and did the defense provide you grounds for reasonable doubt?

On the murder charges they did.

 

[katydid23]

l

Except those recordings made him seem suspicious and bizarre...taking the stand could have changed that perception and he could have tried to connect to the jury.

I agree. When people saw LH on the video, they were feeling kind of negative about her responses towards Ross and seemingly cold behavior towards the baby. But on the stand she was able to create a much better connection with people and explained her behavior in a logical believable way.

 

[Hope4More]

Will the jury understand and abide by the instructions given to them before they deliberate?

Doubtful they'll understand then- many juries don't understand their instructions, and these imo will be more complex than is typical, but I believe juries most often do try to follow instructions to the best of their ability, and this jury has at least one stickler for the rules juror.

 

[LibertyandJustice4]

Every state in the union gets hot enough to kill a child in a car. Many states do get cold enough that a person could freeze to death in a car. Also, the difference in length of day may play a part, between winter and summer.

Very true. I suppose if it does happen, you just drive the child home and thank your lucky stars. It's very odd to me, though, that you don't hear of it, even if it's a friend of a friend type thing.

 

[katydid23]

Doubtful they'll understand then- many juries don't understand their instructions, and these imo will be more complex than is typical, but I believe juries most often do try to follow instructions to the best of their ability, and this jury has at least one stickler for the rules juror.

Yes. If that registrar, former jury foreperson, makes it onto the jury, she will have a lot of influence, imo. Will be interesting to see what happens.

When I read about the individual jurors, I see a lot of things making me think it might end up in a hung jury.

I see some very family oriented jurors who might be horrified by RH's behavior and be doubtful that he could innocently forget his baby.

But some of the young, unmarried males may not be as concerned about a little sexting or sexual exploits. And may not think it is that unbelievable someone could forget a child in the car.

There might be a divisive situation in the deliberations?

 

[Deleted member 39678]

This part of Dr Brewer's testimony makes sense to me. It also shows me that he's being honest about the facts of this case.

Brewer talked about different types of memory and what could cause a parent to forget their child in a car. He said habits, distractions and fatigue are all factors that can cause “prospective memory failure.”

He did, however, say that the more important a task is, the less likely someone is to forget it.
"When you have an important intention, you remember to do it more,” Brewer said.

In Harris’ situation, because of how important it is and the fatal consequences, Brewer said it would be less likely that there would be memory failure, but that doesn't mean it can't happen.

"Our systems are prone to error, and even under the best situations and the best circumstances, there's still going to be failure," he said. “Even in cases as tragic as this one, it's still something that happens. There's nothing unique about this case relative to the other cases where this has happened.”

That helps to create reasonable doubt for me.

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/ross-harr...e-ross-harris-forgot-his-son-in-car/463577221

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Doubtful they'll understand then- many juries don't understand their instructions, and these imo will be more complex than is typical, but I believe juries most often do try to follow instructions to the best of their ability, and this jury has at least one stickler for the rules juror.

You're right. The understanding part is different from abiding. Thanks.

 

[pocketaccent]

My highly speculative theory on disappearance of Dr. Diamond

- I think the defense team did not provide Dr. Diamond detailed information relating to RH's June 18th activities (sexting, Whisper, needing an escape, Lightbulb trip) which are pertinent and salient information in forming his opinion. RH also probably didn't tell him about his sexting and other activities during the interview with Dr D.

- During preparation for his testimony Dr. D learned more about RH and his activities on June 18th. I think Dr. Diamond then informed the defense team that he cannot give favorable testimony or that he would not testify. Maybe around end of October? (see below for how Dr. Diamond typically works)

-The defense team hurriedly found Dr. Brewer as a replacement. Also didn't inform him all pertinent information. Dr. Brewer learned about sexting from Boring during cross from Boring. While crossing Dr. Brewer, Boring mentioned Dr. D in a manner that he seemed to know Dr. D won't be testifying. I heard it that way anyway.

-During lunch last Thursday, for whatever reason, Dr A pulled out abruptly upsetting Kilgore a great deal. Maybe Dr A just learned that Dr. D won't be testifying? Reluctant to do PTSD presentation if Dr. D won't back up FBS? IDK.


http://katv.com/news/local/expert-witness-family-of-naramore-testify-in-hot-car-death-trial

---------The defense touched on how Dr. Diamond worked and how he would be used in these types of cases. He is initially paid $5,000 to look into the case and investigate. Then, after he investigates, he is paid another $5,000. But Diamond said he will only testify in cases he determines to be accidents.------------------------------

 

[monkeypants]

I want to reiterate something about the DT's witness situation. The witness with the 50 slides was preparing to take the stand before lunch! (S)he was preparing to be called when MK stated that he needed a few minutes to get the electronic equipment ready. That is when Judge Staley looked at her watch and decided to call for a lunch break. After lunch, the witness was no longer needed.... not on that day and not on any other day either. The DT then announced that they would rest after calling only one more witness, a witness whose testimony would be wrapped up by noon the next day.

There was a watershed moment that occurred during lunch on Thursday. The DT had planned to have a witness take the stand before lunch, and (s)he was no longer needed (or wanted) after lunch. Additionally, there had to be at least one other witness who was scheduled to take the stand on Friday since MK stated on Wednesday that he would have two full days of witnesses.

So what would have happened if she didn't break for lunch?
He gets the equipment ready and turns and says "I call so and so as defense next witness" and everyone stares at the door dramatically ? No one ever shows up?

 

[GA_Peach]

So what would have happened if she didn't break for lunch?
He gets the equipment ready and turns and says "I call so and so as defense next witness" and everyone stares at the door dramatically ? No one ever shows up?

That person would have come to the stand. That's why this sudden change is so shocking. If not for setting up the equipment, that witness would have testified. Something happened at lunch to change that.

 

[KALI]

I believe, that he absolutely left his son to die in that hot car.

Why?

Because Ross Harris, is one sick psycho. In my opinion, he is Scott Peterson, after the birth of his son that he didn't want.

Do I think that Ross Harris is a very disgusting man?
ABSOLUTELY.

Do I think that his wife is a dumb patsy?

Yes.
I'm so sorry Cooper.

Yes, I think your father left you to die.

 

[JudyBolton]

Does he look like Ross.. is that her "type"?

He looks quite young - younger than Leanna in my opinion.

 

[lisette]

Why did Leanna move in with some guy/new boyfriend so soon?

Does she need a man that much after going through all of this?

Wouldn't she want to take it slow and not fully commit to living with some guy while she is supposedly suppose to be getting justice for her baby?


Was this guy courting her before the Ross situation took place?

She testified that she moved to north Alabama to be near her new boyfriend. So is there something out there that says she actually lives with him?

 

[GA_Peach]

This part of Dr Brewer's testimony makes sense to me. It also shows me that he's being honest about the facts of this case.



That helps to create reasonable doubt for me.

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/ross-harr...e-ross-harris-forgot-his-son-in-car/463577221

I am sorry that I cannot figure out how to include your quoted text in my reply. There are two things that struck me regarding what you posted about Dr. Brewer. He said that there was nothing unique about Ross's situation. That is flat out not true. No other parent was sexting with minors on the day their child died. No other parent forgot in the same short time span as Ross did. And no other parent claimed it was his biggest fear!

That brings me to my next point. I am not sure if you watched Dr. Brewer's testimony, but he had an exchange with Chuck Boring about Ross's awareness of children dying in hot cars. Dr. Brewer stated that Ross was aware, like every other parent; he's seen the stories on the news. But he did not really know the risks. We know from the evidence that is not true. It was Ross's biggest fear. It was Leanna's biggest fear. They talked about it at home. Ross was aware of the Look Again campaign. He watched a video about the risks of leaving a pet in a hot car five days before Cooper's death. Ross wasn't simply aware of the the possibility of leaving a child in the car; he knew the risks and the consequences.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Guilty beyond a reasonable doubt is the standard this jury will use to decide this case. It's a somewhat confusing idea at times.

Beyond a reasonable doubt is the highest standard of proof that must be met in any trial. In civil litigation, the standard of proof is either proof by a preponderance of the evidence or proof by clear and convincing evidence. These are lower burdens of proof. A preponderance of the evidence simply means that one side has more evidence in its favor than the other, even by the smallest degree. Clear and Convincing Proof is evidence that establishes a high probability that the fact sought to be proved is true. The main reason that the high proof standard of reasonable doubt is used in criminal trials is that such proceedings can result in the deprivation of a defendant's liberty or even in his or her death. These outcomes are far more severe than in civil trials, in which money damages are the common remedy.

I don't see clear and convincing evidence let alone beyond a reasonable doubt that RH intentionally left Cooper in the car to die. JMO.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/beyond+a+reasonable+doubt

 

[gitana1]

If it matters, this happened on Monday morning first thing before jurors were brought into the CR.



Then, after releasing the jury for their break on Wed morning, Boring hopped over to the bench as he announced he had the SEALED envelope containing the DTs requested data. It was given to the Court Reporter. The judge asked the lawyers how they wanted it labeled. Kilgore did not care at that point and said it didn't matter. Finally, the Judge decided it would become a court exhibit that would not dare go to the jury.

How does the DT know what information was inside of the sealed envelope and when did they know it?

We know the FBI file had statements made by the defendant to Dr. D. and another time to Dr A. Why did the FBI need to read, examine, investigate, and opine on those statements made by JRH?

So curious. The FBI sometimes does criminal investigative analyses of cases. I don;t know under what circumstances. Is it possible they did one here?

Very true. I suppose if it does happen, you just drive the child home and thank your lucky stars. It's very odd to me, though, that you don't hear of it, even if it's a friend of a friend type thing.

I found one where the mother intentionally left her kids in the car to freeze to death. (They survived). https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...LpqDq4AQJrPeCU0vCXW51A&bvm=bv.137904068,d.cGc

And several where the kids were left in a freezing car either by negligence or child endangerment:

http://www.kiro7.com/news/milton-father-charged-leaving-baby-freezing-car-ov/39997405

http://time.com/4166719/couple-arrested-kids-cold-car/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-inside-freezing-car-watch-football-game.html

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/cri...ght-freezing-car-dad-arrest-article-1.2105576

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/police-mother-leaves-baby-in-freezing-car-at-massachusetts-outlets/

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...4TxXe_jLF3-txrjnA&sig2=DmYeJvTnc3xEFPraHry0WA

This part of Dr Brewer's testimony makes sense to me. It also shows me that he's being honest about the facts of this case.


That helps to create reasonable doubt for me.

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/ross-harr...e-ross-harris-forgot-his-son-in-car/463577221

See I don't equate "possibility" with reasonable doubt. Many things are "possible". Most things are possible. But is the possibility great enough that it is reasonable to doubt guilt? That's the key for me. Just because something is possible doesn't mean all doubt is reasonably removed.

My highly speculative theory on disappearance of Dr. Diamond

- I think the defense team did not provide Dr. Diamond detailed information relating to RH's June 18th activities (sexting, Whisper, needing an escape, Lightbulb trip) which are pertinent and salient information in forming his opinion. RH also probably didn't tell him about his sexting and other activities during the interview with Dr D.

- During preparation for his testimony Dr. D learned more about RH and his activities on June 18th. I think Dr. Diamond then informed the defense team that he cannot give favorable testimony or that he would not testify. Maybe around end of October? (see below for how Dr. Diamond typically works)

-The defense team hurriedly found Dr. Brewer as a replacement. Also didn't inform him all pertinent information. Dr. Brewer learned about sexting from Boring during cross from Boring. While crossing Dr. Brewer, Boring mentioned Dr. D in a manner that he seemed to know Dr. D won't be testifying. I heard it that way anyway.

-During lunch last Thursday, for whatever reason, Dr A pulled out abruptly upsetting Kilgore a great deal. Maybe Dr A just learned that Dr. D won't be testifying? Reluctant to do PTSD presentation if Dr. D won't back up FBS? IDK.


http://katv.com/news/local/expert-witness-family-of-naramore-testify-in-hot-car-death-trial

---------The defense touched on how Dr. Diamond worked and how he would be used in these types of cases. He is initially paid $5,000 to look into the case and investigate. Then, after he investigates, he is paid another $5,000. But Diamond said he will only testify in cases he determines to be accidents.------------------------------

You make some good points. He did know about Ross coming back to the car during lunch though. he talked about that in his article. I;m not sure he knew that Ross stated he was totally aware of FBS and how to "look back" nor that he watched a video by a vet of what a dog goes through, just days before his son died. However, he did mention that Ross may have looked up how ling it takes a kid to die in a hot car and seemed to entertain the notion that that could have been a horrible "coincidence". As we know, Ross did not look that up but it surprises me that Dr. Diamond would entertain the possibility that he could do that and still accidentally forget his son. I don;t think anyone could believe that coincidence. Maybe he though twice about the circumstances of the case. Maybe he could not testify to what the defense wanted.

 

[Safeguard]

I read some statistics that mothers are usually treated more harshly in these cases than fathers.

I think it's that society unconsciously expects more from mothers than fathers.

In that one conviction - she was convicted of the lesser misdemeanor charge, so his testimony was probably helpful in that case as well.

BBM

This true beyond a shadow of a doubt imo. The judgement starts at conception even. Everyone seems to feel a womans every move, from diet, exercise, to the most minut aspects of her lifestyle is open for their opinion on whether or not its, "good for the baby"... And it never ends. Uhhgg!

I have never seen anyone subjected to such a continuous of judgement like moms. (Single moms in particular. All of their children have fathers, one would suppose?).

'Mother Guilt' is the gift that just keeps on giving...

Historically, even Autism was first known by the name, "Cold Mother Syndrome", as it was theorized that these children were uncomfortable with being held and making eye contact ect... due to insufficient affection from mothers. ( Not a word about Dads.)

I had my Daughter when I was 42 and if I had a nickel for all the times someone told me that she would likely have Downs Syndrome, purely due to my age, I would be a wealthy woman. ( she didn't btw).

Being responsible for a human life is an awesome responsibly and everyone seems to have their own set of ideals for how best to go about parenting. But the way society judges moms is very counterproductive and the polar opposite of being supportive.

I will never understand how we continue to shame and berate those who don't parent the way we insist they should.

Providing it's 'Good Enough' parenting a lot of folks need to learn to mind their own business if they can't be humane.

 

[gitana1]

I am sorry that I cannot figure out how to include your quoted text in my reply. There are two things that struck me regarding what you posted about Dr. Brewer. He said that there was nothing unique about Ross's situation. That is flat out not true. No other parent was sexting with minors on the day their child died. No other parent forgot in the same short time span as Ross did. And no other parent claimed it was his biggest fear!

That brings me to my next point. I am not sure if you watched Dr. Brewer's testimony, but he had an exchange with Chuck Boring about Ross's awareness of children dying in hot cars. Dr. Brewer stated that Ross was aware, like every other parent; he's seen the stories on the news. But he did not really know the risks. We know from the evidence that is not true. It was Ross's biggest fear. It was Leanna's biggest fear. They talked about it at home. Ross was aware of the Look Again campaign. He watched a video about the risks of leaving a pet in a hot car five days before Cooper's death. Ross wasn't simply aware of the the possibility of leaving a child in the car; he knew the risks and the consequences.

You know I just feel that at a minimum, Ross' conduct is similar to parents who get high or drunk or are busy screwing around, and "forget" their kids. And frankly I think if he was poorer, or maybe not as white as he is, or if he was a single mom, there would be much less support from most anyone for the FBS accident theory.