Trial - Ross Harris #9

[arkansasmimi]

Yesterday, 09:13 AM#964 SuperTmo

Quote Originally Posted by MzOpinion8d View Post
There's no way there was over 5" of space from the top of Cooper's head to the top of the car seat.

Right! We have seen photos of Cooper in that seat covering up the name label on the backrest part. Regardless of what the measurements say, it is totally useless to disregard what we can see to be true with our own eyes. That photo was a few months old, IIRC!

ETA: that is also why I think the "Crown to Shoulder + Shoulder to Rump = 19" measurements from the AR are correct. Because that measures out exactly right to his head being at the top of the car seat. No matter his length for a car seat to be legal and safe his head had to be 1" below the top of the seat. Cooper's was not.
Last edited by SuperTmo; Yesterday at 09:16 AM.

Whole point is that the measurements do not add up in the AR report.
crown-shoulder 8 inches
+
shoulder-rump 11 inches
19 inches TRUE these figures do add to this. AND would make the difference 1/4 inch... and if the 21# 5.4 oz would mash down the foam and make the true measurements fit the diff of about 1 1/2 inch over the 30 inch guideline.

But if you go by the measurements you have to add those to the rump to heel measurements to get his whole height.

crown-shoulder 8 inches
+
shoulder-rump 11 inches
19 inches
+
rump-heel 17.5 inches

8+11+17.5= 36.5 total height if you went by these measurements for height by the Autopsy Report.
And then they have height crown to heel 33 inches...
but the crown-shoulder, shoulder-rump = 31.5<<<< which would go with what his height measurement was in March 3, 2016 well baby check up... growth of 1/2 inch in 3 1/2 months.
Bottom line the AR doesn't add up and was not addressed by State or amended.

 

[Hope4More]

RBBM
11/2/16 (Wed) started out with Kilgore and Boring up with the Judge. When mics came on & on the record she asked the State if they had provided the Def with the FBI records. Boring stated "no but we will be giving them to them today". Judge said when you do please make note on the record, and that was done first thing on 11/3/16 (Thurs).

11/3/16 (Thurs)
Boring: First witness, State has no issues about, 2nd State does, goes on to tell that orig had provided a PowerPoint with 22 slides that had some issues with. Then at about 11pm rec'd new PowerPoint with additional 30 some odd slides. He has had time to review and he does have objections with a ton of those slides and issues. That will be something we will have to take up and I wouild ask after, we get done with this first witness."

Judge asked "well have yall discussed it?"(State and Defense) Maybe tell them what your objections are

Boring said Yes, I did actually yesterday sent them an email and then about 11 pm rec'd new PowerPoint with about 30 more added.uhh, well by their email they are not going to want to take their slides out". (Boring has a smirk on his face)

Judge says no problem that they can take up later

Kilgore isnt aware that they had gotten to something... and Boring said well maybe it is 59 .. Judge says no problem we can take it up later..

No doubt in my mind this was over Dr. Diamond. And after the first witness Brewer, then they have lunch and Kilgore tells the court no more witnesses today. The judge is shocked as you can see. << Courtchatter Ross Harris Trial (End of day discussion) Day 21 Part 3 11/03/1611:32 mark, after the jury is excused end of Thurs, is when Boring gives the Judge the packet of FBI stuff for her review and it is noted so that doesn't get sent back with evidence to jury. [video=youtube;NkamUj5jnuk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkamUj5jnuk&index=7&list=PLoW1SIeAWaWa1BHJdr_EpBGK-U_weQTFd[/video]

Thanks for additional info on FBI material. Do I understand correctly that it was turned over to the DT on Thursday, AFTER lunch? In other words, after the DT had already scuttled plans for the slide show no show?

Not sure why you're so convinced it was Dr. Diamond? I'm thinking....not. (posted about this last night , upthread ....)

BTW... Listening back to Brewer day, Thursday, and then Friday, it sounds like whoever the slide show no show was, the DT believed the testimony would only last 1/2 day, including cross. By inference, I'm thinking maybe it was an IT-relatrd witness.

 

[arkansasmimi]

Yesterday, 09:56 AM#982 SuperTmo http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?320660-Trial-Ross-Harris-8&p=12914090#post12914090

Quote Originally Posted by ReadyorNot View Post
Something is way off with those measurements...

AR
Crown -heel 33 inches

crown-shoulder 8
shoulder-heel 23.5
31.5 inches

crown -rump 14
rump-heel 17.5
31.5
So we are to conclude his chest/upper abdomen was only 6 inches long?

The posters who want you to believe he was very long legged to the point that there was 5" of space to grow above his head...they would love you to believe this. I don't. Maybe after fighting for his life Cooper was positioned oddly in the seat and this was the best measurements they could get due to the rigor that set in?

Respectfully, it has nothing to do with any "posters who want you to believe he was very long legged to the point that there wa 5" of space to grow above his head" it has to do with the flipping report was inaccurate and not addressed. Making it conflicting. And since the AR report is NOT in evidence, but the measurements were read into the record. IF the jury sees it a question, they can ask and the measurements can be read back. I feel confident because of the fact Lumkin read it into the record with Dr Frist, that Kilgore will bring the discrepancy up in his Closing. JMHO

56:38 mark Lumkin goes over the measurements with Dr Frist (also Cooper head was slumped over when he was found by RH, not up straight as he was sitting in the photo's from Aug 20, 2014) [video=youtube;9IJwN95Ft8M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IJwN95Ft8M&list=PLoW1SIeAWaWa1BHJdr_EpBGK-U_weQTFd&index=65[/video]

 

[arkansasmimi]

Thanks for additional info on FBI material. Do I understand correctly that it was turned over to the DT on Thursday, AFTER lunch? In other words, after the DT had already scuttled plans for the slide show no show?

Not sure why you're so convinced it was Dr. Diamond? I'm thinking....not. (posted about this last night , upthread ....)

BTW... Listening back to Brewer day, Thursday, and then Friday, it sounds like whoever the slide show no show was, the DT believed the testimony would only last 1/2 day, including cross. By inference, I'm thinking maybe it was an IT-relatrd witness.

The packet that was given to judge was after the jury was released after lunch on Thursday. *after Brewer testimony. Not before.
The reason I believe it was Dr. Diamond is the context of what was going on and also the conversations here prior to Thursday. When court was ended early on Wed, State had not given the Def the info and Boring said would get that to them that afternoon (Wed. He had already "forgotten" prev when judge asked after Kilgore brought up, so Wed was 2nd time reminder) Who else would have that many slides? I have no clueor what they would be. Just my assumption just like everyone else's here. None of us know for sure. But given the fact that it was after lunch and after Kilgore stated no more witnesses for the day and the Judge being shocked, that Boring gave the sealed FBI stuff...... JMHO

Also there was to be according to Wed when they were left out of court early... that Thur and Friday would be full days. State even had their rebuttal scheduled for Monday. **and there was they civilian witness from HD.. Anyway none of us know why on Dr. Diamond. I just know there was much contention on his testimony to begin with. ***Plus catching up here so unsure what posted prior to my first post this morning

 

[MzOpinion8d]

I think LH asked JRH about more kids in the police interview room because she knew the main thing keeping him married was Cooper, and she suddenly became afraid he was going to leave her now that Cooper was gone. So she tried to get reassurance that he'd have more kids with her.

You'd think he would have been terrified that she'd never forgive him. All he said was she'd be mad. You can tell he knew she wouldn't divorce him. And she didn't, until it became necessary in order for her to be a witness in his defense. By divorcing him and still testifying in his defense, its more impactful than if she'd remained married to him and testified.

So many bizarre behaviors in these two people.

 

[GA_Peach]

What about this LEO. He remembered to drop his first kid off at daycare, and remembered to take the baby out of the car whilst he dropped the first kid off. Then he forgot that he'd just done that, forgot to drop the baby off at a different daycare and left the baby in the car to die.



https://www.google.com/amp/www.syra...d_in_hot_car.amp?client=ms-android-sonymobile

There is no evidence that the father was supposed to drop his second son off a mere 40 seconds after taking his first son to daycare. People can forget activities they have completed, but I am skeptucal that they can forget activities they JUST completed. What's the difference? Activities leave a trail of triggers/cues to keep that activity in your active memory. You cannot forget what is in your active memory.

 

[EquallyDivided]

LOL...sounds familiar. I am in California so if I want to hear the morning testimony, I have to wake up around 5:30 am... Many times my hubby wakes up at 7 to get ready for work, and sees me sitting with my headphones on the couch, huddled over the laptop. He thinks I am :nuts: I told him about this case, and all he can say about me watching it is ' Isn't that unpleasant?' Why do you want to spend time on such an unpleasant experience? :blush:

During trials I have to bring out the crockpot. Works great as a nice way to make a 'home cooked' meal with no muss or fuss. Best one is the chicken breast, white potatoes, carrots, green beans, marinara sauce, parmesan cheese, 8 hours low setting----everyone is happy at dinner time...

Yes, I also have a trial-watching cleaning schedule. I use the hair dryer to clean off bathroom counters and drawers of gunk and dust, sweep it all up, swifter the floors and wash a load of whites with bleach. Husband walks in, smells the bleach and automatically believes I've scrubbed the house.

Not that he expects it, but it creates a nice illusion

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

 

[GA_Peach]

OK, so because one thinks Ross is lying and distorting things, I should give him the benefit of the doubt? I am supposed to figure out which things he is being dishonest about and use that as a reason to think he is not guilty? :thinking:

Did the DT ever attempt to cast reasonable doubt on the the things Ross said? No, they did not. However I am expected to cast Ross's words to the side.

 

[Hope4More]

There is no evidence that the father was supposed to drop his second son off a mere 40 seconds after taking his first son to daycare. People can forget activities they have completed, but I am skeptucal that they can forget activities they JUST completed. What's the difference? Activities leave a trail of triggers/cues to keep that activity in your active memory. You cannot forget what is in your active memory.

A. We don't know how much time elapsed between strapping Cooper in and making the Uturn, but for the sake of the argument, let's say 1 minute (could have been more).

B. We have no idea whatsoever, and I very much doubt that dad does either, just how much time elapsed between dropping off one child and his forgetting to drop off the other. One block? Two? More? All the article says is the dropping off should have been "right after" he dropped off his first child.

 

[MzOpinion8d]

I don't think there's any way the State proved malice murder beyond a reasonable doubt. Their "motive" evidence made no sense and there was no evidence of Ross not wanting Cooper. There was nothing to be gained by Ross for killing Cooper.

I am confident the jury will acquit on malice murder, as there is simply no evidence to support it.

As for cruelty - the state has not yet made clear what they are alleging was the criminally negligent conduct that caused Cooper's death. Other than Stoddard who said that weeks of sexting and texting "led to Cooper's death." If that's the State's theory of criminal negligence, they have missed the mark entirely.

There is SO MUCH evidence that Ross didn't want Cooper, or Leanna. If he'd gotten away with this, Leanna would have probably met with an "accidental" death not long after.

There was nothing to be gained by killing Cooper? Only the complete freedom to live the lifestyle he really wanted, being able to text and sext and chat and bang any and every person he wanted to without any obligation or responsibility to a wife and child!

Do you really think it was Ross's true desire to be a loving husband and father with a good job and a nice house in the suburbs? When it's been proven, and admitted to by Leanna, that he'd been actively involved in immoral and illegal sexual behaviors for AT LEAST four years before Cooper died?

The only true desire Ross had was of a sexual nature. And it had to be inappropriate in some way for him to actually enjoy it - he couldn't even get an erection for his wife, but he could perform just fine for hookers and blow jobs in his car.

He didn't want to be married. He didn't want to be career minded. He was realizing just how intense being a parent is and how long he had to go, with it only getting more and more difficult and expensive as the child grew. He didn't want to be a father anymore. He wanted to be free to pursue whatever fantasy he had at the moment.

His telling women he wouldn't leave his wife because of Cooper wasn't because he loved Cooper so much. It was a way for him to make it clear he wasn't looking for anything but a hookup.

His "doting dad" image was just more of his bragging personality. He knew he would get positive attention for being a "good dad".

He thought he could "accidentally" cause Cooper's death and he would get away with it. He expected huge sympathy, many financial donations, an excuse to quit his job while he "dealt with the death of his son", and it would be a HUGE sympathy sex getter from all these young naive girls he manipulates.

I fully expect a guilty on the malice murder. The state has proven its case and the best the defense could do was "he loved his son" and "sometimes people forget stuff".

 

[MzOpinion8d]

Do you have any theories as to why Dr D didn't testify? Am I incorrect in thinking his testimony was crucial? Because maybe they didn't think the needed it? I am baffled, TBH.

The only reason that makes sense to me is that he became aware of evidence he didn't formerly know prior to trial, and realized this wasn't actually a case of a forgotten baby.

 

[Hope4More]

Did the DT ever attempt to cast reasonable doubt on the the things Ross said? No, they did not. However I am expected to cast Ross's words to the side.

Why would the DT want to "cast reasonable doubt on the things RH said" ?

 

[MzOpinion8d]

This makes sense to me but I'm curious about what our WS lawyer friends have to say.

The lawyers I have seen on TV talking about this case have pretty consistently said they would not want RH to testify. I think lawyers in murder cases pretty much always prefer that their clients do not testify. Am I right about that?

Do the lawyers among us think it's possible that the DT wanted Harris to testify?

I think if they could have stopped his police interviews from being seen they would have. Every time JRH opens his mouth it's a potential for disaster.

 

[arkansasmimi]

DID THE DT CUT SHORT IT’S CASE, AND IF SO, BY HOW MUCH?


On October 21 ( Thursday), Day 10.

After Staley received a note from the jury about Thanksgiving time off, she asked counsel for an estimate of time until the jury received the case.

Boring said: 3-4 weeks.

Kilgore said: I don’t think it will be anything less than 15 court days after today. (which would have been November 10).

Asked by Staley for a maximum, he said—as long as 24, but that his best estimate was 3 more weeks, the lower end of Boring’s estimate.

Kilgore stated that his time estimate was based on an assumption that the State would rest it’s case the following Friday, October 28. (It did).

Kilgore told Staley that the defense case would last 5-6 days, the unknown variable being the length of the State’s cross of each witness.

He also told Staley that he would have to wait until the end of the State’s case to decide which witnesses to call—that he might call “a few more than we’ve indicated, or a few less. “


October 28, Friday. Day 16. The State rests, on schedule with what Kilgore predicted.

1st day of defense case, in the afternoon. Real estate agent and Detective Murphy testified. Staley greatly restricted Murphy’s testimony, which Kilgore likely had anticipated taking much more time.

(Staley’s ruled Kilgore could not question Murphy about the search warrants). Court adjourned early.

If October 28 counts as one of Kilgore’s estimated 5 or 6 days, the DT case would have ended November 4 (5 days) or November 7 (6 days).

The defense rested on November 4.
-------------------------------------

October 30, Sunday. DT talks with Ross about his testifying.

October 31, Monday. Day 18. Leanna testifies. State begins cross.

November 1. Day 18. Tuesday. State completes cross, defense redirect of Leanna. Eight other witnesses testify, friends, family and coworkers.

November 2. Day 19. More “character” witnesses for lack of a betterm term. State hands over FBI materials. Court ended early, no available witnesses.

November 3, Day 20. Brewer. Court ends early again. At end of court day, it was anticipated the DT would call one more witness before resting, and that State had one rebuttal witness to present before resting and being ready to move on to closing arguments.

November 4. The defense rests, does not call that last witness.

Great timeline. *just trying to catch up .. most likely noted, but if not... Kilgore did not question Murphy on the stand in Direct. It was Lumkin and then << noted ea and every SW in question and why. Then Lumkin asked for a Mistrial as RH was unable to get a fair trial. JMHO from watching the trial and rewatching the archived video.

 

[arkansasmimi]

I find it very interesting that if you do a Google search for the last week about Dr. Diamond Ross Harris trial, nothing comes up other than the minute by minute from Brewer testimony. None of the MSM is talking about it. Not that I can see at the current time Central 7:37 am

 

[EquallyDivided]

Hello. I absolutely DO believe it was a coincidence, and Dr. Diamond knew on June 30 the video wasn't about children, it was about pets (way before most anyone knew the difference) , and IMO one of the DT's best supported points was that Ross the researcher clicked on anything and everything that popped up on his screen, as the trending 2 million views vet video did.

And that's coincidentally something that screams at me. To take a video from a vet, speaking about leaving animals in the car - he took the time to comment and associate it to his child mere days before he did that very thing.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

 

[arkansasmimi]

Quote Originally Posted by Hope4More View Post
DID THE DT CUT SHORT IT’S CASE, AND IF SO, BY HOW MUCH?

(snipped) I would say at least by one important if not the most important witness - the renowned expert on this type of child death. We know they said they had 50 slides and that would most certainly be him plus we have the somewhat changed demeanor of the DT.

Put me in the nosey column, too!

RBBM... glad I not the only one who assumed that who had the 50 some odd slides

 

[Cardinal47]

Just one quick question than I'll retire to just reading again.

I know there have been post after post about the wrong measurements of Cooper and car seat. Can somebody tell me just how far they are off? Are we talking 1/2 inch or 5 inches?

TIA

 

[arkansasmimi]

Quote Originally Posted by JudyBolton View Post
(snipped) I would say at least by one important if not the most important witness - the renowned expert on this type of child death. We know they said they had 50 slides and that would most certainly be him plus we have the somewhat changed demeanor of the DT.

Put me in the nosey column, too!

Me too. The Nosey Club is evident here.

I just know that this is a very good Defense Team. And one of the main goals of the defense is to put on a solid presentation that creates momentum and ends with a powerful witness, who can put an exclamation point on their overall case. And this did not happen here. It sputtered at the end and was disjointed and kind of weak, imo. jmo

RBBM, I agree. We also saw the Def team time and time again ruled against of big and trivial things. Kilgore made that point couple times as he objected to Direct of Stockinger. How State was allowed to have sustained objections and now how time and time again Def objections were overruled. How could the Def not be frustrated? Surely the jury picked up on some of these things. Closing will be interesting to say the least. JMHO

 

[MzOpinion8d]

I saw a man in that video sobbing his heart out, his whole body shaking, as he spoke about COOPER.

That was sooooo fake. Even Stoddard said on the stand that Ross didn't have tears or mucous coming out of his eyes and nose...didn't even need Kleenex.