Trial - Ross Harris #9

[arkansasmimi]

Thanks. We obviously can't know for sure who the "slide show no show" was, but for myself, I'm convinced it wasn't Dr. Diamond, for all the reasons I've posted, including that the DT didn't in fact shut down their case days early. Kilgore said on October 20 that it would last 5-6 days, depending on how long the State used for cross, and that it would possibly be shorter; he had to wait til the State rested to know if he'd drop a few witnesses or add a few. November 4, when the DT rested, lined right up with that schedule.

The 50 slide witness, if Kilgore ever really meant to call him/her, seemed scheduled for a half day, including cross. 50 slides, and supposedly the DT's key witness, wrapped up in half a day. Just don't think so, especially given the rest of context, including I absolutely don't believe the DT feared what was in that FBi file. They have been meticulously prepared every step of the way and for every witness, their own and the State's. As well, I'm confident in Dr. Diamond's professionalism, that he would have provided the DT himself whatever info/articles/reports the State could have obtained from any other source.

RBBM, :waitasec: so I am I understanding you think the short days were part of the Def plan? I don't think the Judge even thought that (Wed when dismissed jury early said would have full days testimony Thur and Fri by Defense it seemed by everyone)

10/28 Friday : Realtor and Murphy .. after lunch but not full afternoon in front of jury

10/31 Monday Full Leanna
11/1 Tuesday Full
11/2 Wed court over prior to lunch
11/3 Thurs Brewer court over after lunch
11/4 Def rests after Mouldin the computer expert but prior to lunch (iirc)

 

[PaperDoll]

Ditto. In the interrogation room, RH is very prepared to discuss his actions, route and details of his day. He remembered where he parked at the treehouse. (I rarely remember where I park and gave to scan parking lots to get a cue! But RH remembered exactly where he had parked ("under a tree") even after the trauma of "discovering" his dead son in the car seat a few miles away, after not smelling the stench in the car during the ~7 minute drive). He remembers the mutual kiss when he strapped Cooper into the car seat at CFA! RH recalls every detail of that day and is completely focused on complying with answering questions so he can get the heck out of there. Oh, but he "forgot" to mention the light bulb drop during lunch.

The complete focus in the interrogation room is about RH. The detective constantly has to remind RH that "your son is dead." RH has accepted this already and has moved on to his "finish up your questions so I can leave" mindset. There is zero compassion or empathy expressed for the horror, pain and torture that little Cooper suffered. It does not register in RH's mind, because he has accepted it! Because he planned it. He is well equipped, however, to answer all the questions and justify this "accident" and provide excuses for why this is not a crime. He's very well prepared.

I have tried to imagine the effect of shock on RH and LTH and their reactions. Could they somehow be so in shock so as to not experience emotional images of the horror of the 7 hours that their son baked to death in that hot car? I think I would be overwhelmed with the thoughts and images of what the child went through. But NO ONE EVEN MENTIONS IT. I cannot get past that everyone's focus (except LE's who kept reminding them "your son is dead") is upon RH. RH actually assigns TASKS to his dead son's mother (e.g., "call at Home Depot, but don't tell them this legal stuff," "I need representation," etc. Repeat, he assigns TASKS to the dead child's mother!! Her behavior is another issue, which I won't go into other than to say "FREAK".

There are too many oddities and coincidences to be rationalized in this case. I suspect the jury will hang or settle on a lesser charge, just because the thought of a parent purposely doing this is too horrific to believe. And it only takes 1 juror to hang. But I think RH planned this, thought he'd walk away scott free and receive sympathy from others. I think he was shocked that they figured it out, that this was intentional. He didn't get sympathy; he got prosecuted. ******

AGREE! :blowkiss: In the interview room with LE he really was acting like he was being unfairly questioned.. Heck even when Stoddard was giving him another search on his body, and told Ross what he's doing when reaching towards his pocket, Ross says "Yeah man do what you have to do" (in so many words may not be exact), I found attitude in that, like he was annoyed he was arrested. I believe a person can truly block something out of their mind at will. Ross told the truth in what he did that day, he could not tell LE why he decided to go straight to work instead of daycare. He decided to block it out and it was easy to do. He also forgot to tell LE about HD/lightbulbs at lunch and hesitated at great lengths. This would have been damning as well when questioned by LE so Ross left it out. But he knew, IMO, Cooper was in the car. No sympathy from me for Ross.

 

[PaperDoll]

Did I read in someone's post about RH not being triggered by a long list of triggers that he grabbed his CFA cup but left a bag with CFA food in the car when he got out? If that is the case the smell in the car was probably rancid food. Why in the world would he leave that there? That is just gross.

Another trigger would be, he just ate at CFA so I would think the food he just ate, would still be a reminder, it's in his system and he's not hungry because he just ate. Your internal clock would trigger hunger if you had not eaten, so when he was at work and Cooper was in the car, I would think Ross would remember he ate at CFA, he had breakfast and won't be eating until lunch. This would trigger Cooper had breakfast with him and Ross should then have realized that he didn't take Cooper to day care. He knew he didn't take him because it would have been a BIG production taking Cooper out of the car seat, walking him in to day care, signing him in, saying hi to workers, walking him to his room etc...

 

[GA_Peach]

Did I read in someone's post about RH not being triggered by a long list of triggers that he grabbed his CFA cup but left a bag with CFA food in the car when he got out? If that is the case the smell in the car was probably rancid food. Why in the world would he leave that there? That is just gross.

You are probably referring to my post.

Ross did not leave a bag of CFA food in the car. When Ross went to CFA without Cooper in the morning, he normally utilized the drive-thru. When he arrived at work on those mornings, he had a CFA cup AND a bag of food. On June 18, Ross had a cup but not a bag of food. The cup itself would have acted as a trigger/cue. The absence of a bag of CFA food also would have been a trigger/cue.

I am sorry for the confusion, and I hope that this clarifies my earlier statement.

 

[Hope4More]

RBBM, :waitasec: so I am I understanding you think the short days were part of the Def plan? I don't think the Judge even thought that

10/28 Friday : Realtor and Murphy .. after lunch but not full afternoon in front of jury

10/31 Monday Full Leanna
11/1 Tuesday Full
11/2 Wed court over prior to lunch
11/3 Thurs Brewer court over after lunch
11/4 Def rests after Mouldin the computer expert but prior to lunch (iirc)

Short days as part of a plan? Eh? No, not what I was saying. I'm saying it's not accurate that the DT cut it's case short abruptly, and by days worth of testimony.

Looks more like maybe half a day "short .". That Staley and State were surprised i don't find particularly meaningful. I'm thinking Minor 4th's idea that the DT was playing with the State's head about Diamond is supported more by what we know than the possibility the DT withdrew Diamond at literally the last minute, . out of sudden fear or whatnot. jmo.

 

[arkansasmimi]

You are probably referring to my post.

Ross did not leave a bag of CFA food in the car. When Ross goes to CFA without Cooper, he normally utilizes the drive-thru. When he arrives at work on those morning, he has a CFA cup AND a bag of food. On June 18, Ross had a cup but not a bag of food. The cup itself would act as a trigger/cue. The absence of a bag of CFA food also would have been a trigger/cue.

I am sorry for the confusion, and I hope that this clarifies my earlier statement.

And as alleged by State, (no video shown or obj that I remember) it was posed in a question to Brewer, 4 out of 30 days RH carried a bag in. So that jmho means he ate in the car.

 

[JudyBolton]

Several have had the opinion that JRH intentionally left Cooper, fully intending to sign in to work or make an appearance then return and take him to daycare. But *something* distracted his attention (sexting?) and he forgot Cooper was in the car.

My question is - would that make a difference in the jury's decision as opposed to just forgetting at the traffic light within minutes of leaving CFA?

Another question - if he somehow did remember Cooper on or around lunch, realized it was too late to save him and waited to drive to another location to "discover" him - is that malice murder?

I honestly think that the lunchtime lightbulb incident is very damaging to his story and may influence some jurors who don't want to believe he did this intentionally.

 

[GA_Peach]

And as alleged by State, (no video shown or obj that I remember) it was posed in a question to Brewer, 4 out of 30 days RH carried a bag in. So that jmho means he ate in the car.

On cross, Dr. Brewer testified that the absence of the CFA bag would have been a trigger.

The State did show video of Ross entering the Tree House with a cup and a bag of food on at least one occasion.

Did the DT ever enter into evidence that Ross ate in his car? I don't recall that part of the trial.

 

[GA_Peach]

Several have had the opinion that JRH intentionally left Cooper, fully intending to sign in to work or make an appearance then return and take him to daycare. But *something* distracted his attention (sexting?) and he forgot Cooper was in the car.

My question is - would that make a difference in the jury's decision as opposed to just forgetting at the traffic light within minutes of leaving CFA?

Another question - if he somehow did remember Cooper on or around lunch, realized it was too late to save him and waited to drive to another location to "discover" him - is that malice murder?

I honestly think that the lunchtime lightbulb incident is very damaging to his story and may influence some jurors who don't want to believe he did this intentionally.

IMO anything that Ross did or didn't do after the time of Cooper's death is irrelevant. However, the time of Cooper's death is still unknown.

 

[Paige SC]

BREAKING NEWS -> Defense has filed multiple motions for a mistrial (not uncommon.) Each motion has been swiftly denied (also not uncommon.)

Closing arguments to begin next week.‎‎ ‎
‎

 

[PaperDoll]

Several have had the opinion that JRH intentionally left Cooper, fully intending to sign in to work or make an appearance then return and take him to daycare. But *something* distracted his attention (sexting?) and he forgot Cooper was in the car.

My question is - would that make a difference in the jury's decision as opposed to just forgetting at the traffic light within minutes of leaving CFA?

Another question - if he somehow did remember Cooper on or around lunch, realized it was too late to save him and waited to drive to another location to "discover" him - is that malice murder?

I honestly think that the lunchtime lightbulb incident is very damaging to his story and may influence some jurors who don't want to believe he did this intentionally.

Ross couldn't tell LE why he didn't make that turn to day care, he told them he went straight to work. So the theory of him going in work then going back out to drop Cooper off doesn't make sense, to me at least. AND if that were the case, why not take Cooper in work with you, do your thing than take him to day care? Why leave him in the car? Also, Ross didn't have to clock in, he wasn't really on a time schedule IIRC.

 

[arkansasmimi]

Short days as part of a plan? Eh? No, not what I was saying. I'm saying it's not accurate that the DT cut it's case short abruptly, and by days worth of testimony.

Looks more like maybe half a day "short .". That Staley and State were surprised i don't find particularly meaningful. I'm thinking Minor 4th's idea that the DT was playing with the State's head about Diamond is supported more by what we know than the possibility the DT withdrew Diamond at literally the last minute, . out of sudden fear or whatnot. jmo.

I def think the Def was playing with their heads toward the end. JMHO, the way the State acted when came back from lunch and said no more witnesses today (Thursday) did catch State by surprise. Boring then took the FBI/assumed package to court clerk. And pi$$ed on other factors. As "to why" he wasn't called I have no idea. But def did catch State off guard. Their objections and comments on Stockinger got some points across on the record too. I personally don't feel it was "fear" being reason for not calling him. Unsure of factual reason.

 

[Hope4More]

And as alleged by State, (no video shown or obj that I remember) it was posed in a question to Brewer, 4 out of 30 days RH carried a bag in. So that jmho means he ate in the car.

IIRC, Boring said RH had been to CFA 4 out of the last 9 days, this not having anything to do with bags or not, just that 4 of 9 wasn't a "majority" of days (ie, going to CFA wasn't really a routine/habit. Brewer replied that no, 4 out if THIRTY days wasn't a "majority" of days.

Boring didn't get anywhere with the bringing in bags of food as a habit. Brewer just replied - there's no way to know.

 

[arkansasmimi]

On cross, Dr. Brewer testified that the absence of the CFA bag would have been a trigger.

The State did show video of Ross entering the Tree House with a cup and a bag of food on at least one occasion.

Did the DT ever enter into evidence that Ross ate in his car? I don't recall that part of the trial.

Agree. From testimony of coworkers and especially Mr. Brown, it seemed like he took food into work daily but that one question (could have been a hypothetical ?) 4 out of 30, seemed like he didn't. Kinda confusing there.

 

[DeDee]

Here's the thing about those other stories, imo, and what DOES make RH's case unique.

Unlike any other case I'm aware of, RH's window of opportunity for forgetting can be narrowed down to those specific few minutes between leaving CFA and the intersection, at the latest.

We don't know how quickly other parents forgot their kids, precisely because their drives from home to work, etc WERE longer than RH's. Those other parents forgot, went to work or wherever, and didn't " remember " until hours later.

We have no way of knowing when and how quickly they forgot, because THEY had no way of knowing.

BTW...the fact that RH's window of forgetting was so short is not evidence to me that he couldn't have had FBS, it's evidence to me that he either did, or that he plain vanilla forgot. I simply do not believe the man planned to murder Cooper and feign FBS, then chose a route that would record his every move and would document his forgetting within minutes and seconds, making that forgetting seem impossible to many, and implausible to others.

Nothing could have been simpler than driving Cooper straight to work, parking where Cooper couldn't have been seen, and waiting until he left work to "discover" him. IMO, one has to turn things pretty much inside out to think RH premeditated killing Cooper, and it flat out is unbelievable that Ross knew of FBS and yet chose a scenario that was completely unlikely to be viewed as such.

Hope, you would be masterful in the jury room as foreperson. I do hope that this jury has someone as passionate as yourself about JRHs innocence of intentionally killing his son. Do not think for one moment that your eloquent argument is falling upon deaf ears.

I watched the PC Hearing in a livestreamed ChatRoom. There was one after the other inaudible gasps as the testimony from Stoddard was placed on the record into Cooper's murder investigation. However, I had done my homework and vetted this family and their friends first. Hence, I came to the trial with a no nonsense approach that this mad man premeditated a life that no longer included his son.

Perhaps, I awoke feeling generous, to find myself almost willing to give JRH the benefit of the reasonable doubt. But, no. JRH was walking in darkness as a veil covered his eyes when he allowed evil to enter his repetitive thoughts, his written or left unwritten words, whether spoken or left unspoken, and years upon years, or for six of the last eight years where they were a married couple, that ultimately led him to a lifestyle of illicit deeds and illegal actions because JRH, admittedly, has no conscious, without which, one cannot truly love.

 

[arkansasmimi]

IIRC, Boring said RH had been to CFA 4 out of the last 9 days, this not having anything to do with bags or not, just that 4 of 9 wasn't a "majority" of days (ie, going to CFA wasn't really a routine/habit. Brewer replied that no, 4 out if THIRTY days wasn't a "majority" of days.

Boring didn't get anywhere with the bringing in bags of food as a habit. Brewer just replied - there's no way to know.

OK, I slept since then THANK YOU lol for setting that straight. It was confusing to me.

 

[GA_Peach]

Agree. From testimony of coworkers and especially Mr. Brown, it seemed like he took food into work daily but that one question (could have been a hypothetical ?) 4 out of 30, seemed like he didn't. Kinda confusing there.

I don't think that Ross brought food into work with him every day. My impression is that when Ross went to CFA without Cooper in the morning he went through the drive-thru. Multiple drive-thru receipts were entered into evidence. On those mornings, Ross brought his breakfast into work to eat. IMO the important take-away is that Ross going to CFA in the morning results in Ross bringing his food into the office to eat.

I may be mistaken, but I do not believe that the DT challenged that assumption. The DT did not offer Ross eating in the car as possible explanation for why he may not have had a food bag. This matters in as much as it establishes the lack of a CFA food bag as yet another trigger.

 

[arkansasmimi]

BREAKING NEWS -> Defense has filed multiple motions for a mistrial (not uncommon.) Each motion has been swiftly denied (also not uncommon.)

Closing arguments to begin next week.‎‎ ‎
‎

JMHO Agree not uncommon for Mistrial to be asked, nor denied... especially in this case, denial of many Motions. Unusual in this case is what the Judge wouldn't allow testimony of. The Mistrial Motions were to get them on the record - never do I believe Defense actually thought Judge would agree to the Mistrial Motions.

**The Defense did get her to reverse her decision to allow Gallimore report admitted into evidence over the State objections (after telling Def that there was appellant review to deside if she was right or wrong in her denying their request) And then to have stated in front of the jury her reversal on review (again over the State stating they saw no need for that- you know just enter it and make no mention of it).

 

[arkansasmimi]

IMO anything that Ross did or didn't do after the time of Cooper's death is irrelevant. However, the time of Cooper's death is still unknown.

JMHO that I what the Def stated in OS. That what happened after RH left Cooper in the car is irrelevant, he had already "forgotten" him in car. And per the former ME Dr Frist, no way to ever tell what time he actually died. JMHO there was confusion with the Dr (myself included) and as to when the State contends Cooper died. Hopefully the State will make it more clear as to when they "think" Cooper died in their Closing Statements.

 

[NCTeacher]

The key thing to remember in all of these, is the vast majority of jurors are not legal experts. They will come to the jury room with their own perceptions, experiences, and ingrained beliefs. No doubt they will do their best to be fair and equitable, but if they find something to be ludicrous, they are not likely going to buy into it.

For example, someone can swear up and down that he did not murder his wife. Scott Peterson comes to mind. There was (and still is) room for UNREASONABLE doubt because while it was remotely possible someone else killed Laci, the circumstantial evidence provided by the state rendered it unreasonable to believe someone else did it.

I have come to same determination here. Ross can swear up and down that he "forgot" Cooper. But Brewer's testimony (yes, I found him to be a horrible defense witness), the logistics of the car, the foreshadowing of Cooper being left in a car in a youtube post, the comments he made about wanting to escape from his son, the matter of seconds that he supposedly forgot Cooper---have led me to conclude that while I consider it a REMOTE POSSIBILITY that he forgot Cooper, I find that conclusion unreasonable.

And if he did not forget Cooper, the only other possibility is that he left him on purpose.

As far as the comment about the vet video, YES it was about DOGS, not just pets, but DOGS. The Vet kept mentioning "dogs," that video was in NO WAY about leaving "living beings," he might've used the term to alternate word choice to not sound terribly redundant, but he was clear---he was talking about dogs in hot cars. The fact that RH had TWO DOGS, and instead of thinking about one or both of his dogs in the car and made the leap to talk about his son being left in that car was the smoking gun for me. That is what erased any and all doubt in my mind.

I have no doubt. None. Ross did this on purpose. I think it was on his mind and he toyed with the idea for days before deciding to do it that fateful morning.