Trial - Ross Harris #9

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  • #601
Plus, you don't throw light bulbs. You could break the filaments, if they were those types of bulbs which idk.

I'm extra careful with fluorescent bulbs because I know that if you break them that toxic materials spill out.

I wouldn't want my car to become the equivalent of a chemical dump.
 
  • #602
I know what you are saying, but he is not that kind of a speaker. He is a simple, casual kind of guy, imo. :moo:

I think he got to the basic simple facts of the case and did so in a way the jury could easily understand.

Same here.

I'm not sure what people are expecting. This is a run of the mill DA who is doing his job. I think he did fantastic laying out all the FACTS which should be considered dispassionately IMO.

This isn't about anyone's feelings or being entertained. This is about Cooper Harris and how and why JRH killed him.
 
  • #603
Plus, you don't throw light bulbs. You could break the filaments, if they were those types of bulbs which idk.

Every light bulb I've bought in the past 5 or so years is super heavy duty. Do they even have filaments in them anymore?
 
  • #604
I don't think he rehearsed it in a "what would I say to the cops" kind of way. I think he was very familiar with other cases of children dying in hot cars and THEIR parents weren't charged (or were charged with lesser offenses) and THEIR parents had no history of abuse, no priors, etc.. RH felt like he fit in the same mold as the rest of them, so IMO he was genuinely surprised when he was charged.

ETA seeing him argue the charges with the police was very much like seeing my sociopathic, narcissistic ex arguing with the Judge at our custody hearings. Imagine someone like RH representing himself and you can imagine how our custody hearings went... The smackdowns from the Judge were AMAZING.

Exactly. I didn't mean that he had it rehearsed to say to the cops, but rehearsed in his own mind for reasons why they'd never suspect he was any different. "Rehearsed" was probably the wrong word, but I couldn't think of a better one! :)

I am very familiar with those custody battles except ours never made it to a hearing. We did some mediation, though, with similar results. It was horrible. The divorce was bad, but the custody battle ripped my heart to shreds. It was the worst couple years of my life bar none. The things he did were awful, and I still shudder to this day thinking how close I was to losing her, and she will probably never fully recover from the way he treated her and continues to do so to this day. He was, like RH, very, very good at playing at being a good father and coming across like a good father without actually BEING a good father. Like I've said before, if you don't have experience with a sociopath/narcissist, it can be hard to comprehend. It's not always how you would imagine a textbook narcissist to be. But once you have lived with it and experienced firsthand how low they will go to avoid the most shallow of things, you can spot them from a mile away.
 
  • #605
He should end with: you've all seen the car. Imagine yourself sitting in it, the position of the car seat. Now we will wait 30 seconds in silence...

He may yet speak to that, in rebuttal.

I watched a video of Cooper running into CFA just this morning, then pictured the CS photo we saw. :( Imagine the impact of that, if allowed.
 
  • #606
Presumably, jury will get the case this afternoon. Half day session tomorrow. When does anyone expect a verdict? I figure by the end of the week. What say you?
 
  • #607
Very weak closing. The closing statement felt completely uninspired.

IMO the weakness of presentation was a direct reflection of the weakness of the State's case for malice murder, the charge they focused on to the exclusion of ever making a case for criminal negligence.
 
  • #608
here we go :popcorn:
 
  • #609
I would have felt insulted with that closing if i was on jury
 
  • #610
I am very anxious to hear the defense closing. I was completely objective (well, probably defaulting to "probably an accident") at the beginning. I'm not now. I wonder how persuasive they may be now.
 
  • #611
Defense closing:

Maddox Kilgore begins his closing argument by immediately going after the lead investigator for Cobb County police, Det. Phil Stoddard.

"He'd already decided the case. He'd already decided a crime had occurred. He'd already passed judgment. He'd already completely precluded the possibility that this was exactly what it was: an accident. It was Det. Stoddard's boss ... he's wrong. He's wrong for a lot of reasons. The first thing I want to talk about is legally why he's wrong. In this state, accident is a defense."
 
  • #612
i work for an anatomical gift (organ/eye/tissue) donation organization and get notified of every death in three states. I've dealt with a few cases of parents accidentally killing their kids and none reacted like rh. The police reports and medic reports were so sad to read. I remember the case of a family that was moving. They had a non-flat screen tv that the dad was carrying out of the apartment. Somehow the toddler got underfoot and he dropped the tv. It landed on his son's head and killed him. The ambulance took the boy to the hospital and the dad lost.his.mind. With grief and pain. The reaction of the dad was to beg the police to kill him to put him out of his misery. When they wouldn't he made an attempt to grab a gun from an officer, in hopes the others would kill him or he could do the job himself. One of the officers got him in what sounds like a big bear hug and the rest surrounded. The dad just started sobbing and they cried with him. I will never forget that heartbreaking case.

this.
 
  • #613
A married man who cheats isn't a child killer.

A married man & father who cheats isn't a child killer.
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An unhappily married man & father who cheats isn't a child killer.

An unhappily married man & father who cheats, has a child and a fear of his child dying in a hot car isn't a child killer.

An unhappily married man & father who cheats, has a fear of his child dying in a hot car, and clicks on something 'child free' isn't a child killer.

An unhappily married man & father who cheats, has a fear of his child dying in a hot car, clicks on something 'child free' and something 'hot car death' isn't a child killer.

‎‎An unhappily married man & father who cheats, has a fear of his child dying in a hot car, clicks on something 'child free,' clicks 'hot car death' and forgets his child in a car in under one minute, sounds sort of like he could be a child killer.

An unhappily married man & father who cheats, has a fear of his child dying in a hot car, clicks something 'child free,' clicks 'hot car death,' forgets his child in a car in under one minute, returns to a hot car a few hours later & fails to see his child in it, could possibly be a child killer.

An unhappily married man & father who cheats, has a fear of his child dying in a hot car, clicks something 'child free,' clicks 'hot car death,' forgets his child in a car in under one minute, returns to the hot car a few hours later, fails to see his child, returns to his hot car after work, drives away in that stench filled hot car while still oblivious to the corpse of his toddler a mere foot away, displays an insincere demeanor, flings around terms like "but it wasn't malice" and "there was no intent" while at the police station - can only BE a child killer.

For me, and because this case isn't one where material proof actually applies, well, it does in the sense CH's dead body is material proof but I digress.. it comes down to the process of elimination. It's more or less based on statistical likelihood (or not) of ALL things considered. I'd have to suspend everything I know about probability, intuition, chance, coincidence, subconscious, and human behavior. And yes, even cases involving *true* FBS.
‎
No question it's SO MUCH EASIER to believe it was an accident. It's convenient & tidy that way, sterile even. Just a generic, tragic accident. But I know evil happens. It walks among us. Evil looks & acts normal. Physical monsters are only found in the movies. Human monsters live next door. Monsters do unspeakable things to their children, their victims, their 'loved ones.' That's a FACT, like it or not.
‎
‎Spur of the moment murder is still murder but it's more palpable to the human psyche. I could have bought into that theory but for his 'clicks', his deleting certain search history and not others (clearing ALL search history would be too obvious,) and the sudden cessation of taking/sharing pics of his pride & joy in the weeks proceeding June 18th.

Some of you were repulsed by my parody of RH being interrogated. It was brutal, indeed. That was the point. I thought about editing it but no, I believe every word I wrote so why should I? Because it invokes uncomfortable imagery of what I perceive as the painful reality? PASS. For those of us who believe this wasn't an accident, what Ross Harris DID was BRUTAL. It was repulsive. He slowly cooked his baby to death, even taking the time to open the 'oven door' to see if his helpless child was 'about done.' And more than likely not, he gave his son a 'pep talk' before closing that door. He may as well of hog tied Cooper, stuck him in an actual oven, cut the temp to 175 degrees and walked away. It's the same thing. He slowly cooked his son from the inside out. An innocent child that loved his dad unconditionally. Think about that. So while my comment was insensitive, and indeed it was, I think you're barking up the wrong tree. RH's ACTIONS are where that outrage should be directed. Anything else is deflection.‎

I actually appreciate opinions that cast reasonable doubt on guilt. We NEED both players in order to have a fair & just society. My problem is when it goes beyond reasonable and becomes steadfast denial bordering on a vicious assault of the innocent. I believe most people are good and while there are always bad apples I've seen nothing to suggest RH is being unfairly accused simply for being an innocent, grieving father who tragically lost his only child.

‎IMO, Ross Harris is Casey Anthony with a penis. If true, one could reasonably assume RH will be found not guilty, right? Well, one (big) difference is we know exactly how and when CH died. We still don't know for certain when or how little CA died. That's kind of an important detail in murder trials, even if everything else *suggests* intentional murder. ‎Why? One reason is because it COULD have been an accidental death that CA tried to conceal out of fear of x,y or z. Humans are known to do this very thing. On the other hand, there are jurors who lie to get on a jury in order to hang it, anti- government jurors, jurors who need video proof, and jurors who simply wear rose colored glasses while refusing to believe parents kill their children with malice.
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Still yet, I remain hopeful the jury will get it right this time. Their job isn't to make excuses for RH, but rather take what's presented, consider the unthinkable, and draw a reasonable conclusion based on the totality of the evidence. It's not up to the state to provide clear and convincing evidence beyond a shadow of a doubt, for we know there are but a handful of absolutes. If they provide enough evidence that more likely than not this was intentional homicide, they've done their job. I believe they accomplished this.

‎If by chance RH walks, I will be disappointed for sure, but I'll also take comfort in knowing CH didn't die in vain. He accomplished great things in his 22 short months. He brought awareness to the table and certainly deterred a few RH's along the way. Since June 18th 2014, child related car deaths have steadily declined. They're currently lowest they've been in almost 20 years. I don't think that's a coincidence.
‎‎
All the above is MOO. ‎
 
  • #614
Defense says this was an accident, "and in this case accident is a defense."

Defense attorney Maddox Kilgore reads a part of Georgia code that reads, "No person shall be found guilty of any crime committed by misfortune or accident."

Kilgore says if Harris was putting on a show, why was he doing it when he was alone in the room.

"If it's an accident, it's not a crime," Kilgore says.
 
  • #615
Maybe the reason he was 'putting on a show' in the interview room was because he knew he was on camera and being watched.
 
  • #616
Presumably, jury will get the case this afternoon. Half day session tomorrow. When does anyone expect a verdict? I figure by the end of the week. What say you?

It won't surprise me if it takes them less than 2 hours.
 
  • #617
Kilgore - they've only focused on malice murder the entire trial. Yep.
 
  • #618
Ross Harris Trial ‏@RossHarrisTrial 9m9 minutes ago
Defense: Police never considered that this was an accident http://2wsb.tv/2fLlzFJ #HotCarDeath

Ross Harris Trial ‏@RossHarrisTrial 4m4 minutes ago
Defense: Harris is responsible, but responsible is not the same thing as criminal. #HotCarDeath http://2wsb.tv/2fLlzFJ
 
  • #619
Maybe the reason he was 'putting on a show' in the interview room was because he knew he was on camera and being watched.

Of course he did, he worked for the TPD in Alabama, besides he was also working himself up for when the investigators came back, that way he would "look" devastated.

Also, Kilgore looks checked out in his closing. He no longer looks "passionate" about his client's innocence.

Speaking of which, if this were an accident as Kilgore is trying to imply, WHY DIDN'T ROSS TAKE THE STAND AND EXPLAIN WHY!!
 
  • #620
I am very anxious to hear the defense closing. I was completely objective (well, probably defaulting to "probably an accident" at the beginning. I'm not now. I wonder how persuasive they may be now.

What surprises me is that the defense has no Dr Diamond and no psychologist to explain JRH's behavior at all.

Rumors circulated that JRH was a bumbling fool, too depressed, too horny, too forgetful, too sex addicted, too distracted, and too everything to be expected to remember his own son.

None of that has been even remotely suggested by the defense's own case. Even they admit that he is a reasonably intelligent college graduate. There is no coherent theory as to how JRH forgot Cooper in the car. There is no known health history of ADHD, depression, addictive behavior, ect. I'm sure if there was, the defense would have shared this as a mitigating factor in Cooper's death. However, for whatever reason, neither Dr Diamond or the psychologist that was supposed to have evaluated JRH came into court to testify.

The only person who testified that JRH was forgetful was LH (and LH had lied about LE being insensitive and hostile), and his other friends testified that he was good at remembering facts. He would win at Trivial Pursuit and he could remember how to speak Spanish by walking into a restaurant. But he couldn't remember his own kid?

Right now it looks like all Kilgore has is to throw LE under the bus.
 
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