Trial Thread 10 May 2012 - Judge's Instructions and maybe deliberations!

[Sailor Bug]

RaffertyLFP: Heeney tells the jury they only decide verdict - he decides sentence - if one is required

RaffertyLFP: Heeney explains concept of guilt and reasonable doubt. He says Rafferty is presumed not guilty unless proved guilty beyond reasonable doubt

Heeney reminds jurors that Rafferty is presumed innocent. Only crown must prove a case, not defense.

 

[Thinkzerz]

Quoted from last thread from Otto

"If we believe that TLM offered to take the kidnapping victim into the Tim Hortons, do we also believe her when she said that MR raped Victoria?"

I don't believe TLM asked TORI if she wanted to go to the washroom at Tim Hortons. The reason why is because she was kidnapped. Why would she be hiding under a coat in the back seat if they were willing to take her out in public in Tim Hortons? This i am almost finding hard to believe too. JMO

 

[~n/t~]

Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Judge tells jury: Disregard media reports about the case, only consider what you've heard inside court

 

[matou]

That's what I thought so what the hell is he saying to this jury? I'd like to see his exact quote when it is available.

I don't like this Judge......I think I stated that over and over throughout this trial.

I'm sure it was an objection from the defense. JMO

 

[~n/t~]

Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
Judge tells jurors they have to make decision without sympathy or prejudice for the deceased or accused.


Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Judge: Decide this case without sympathy or prejudice. Can’t let your feelings about the accused or the victim influence decision

 

[Sailor Bug]

RaffertyLFP: Heeney said Crown has burden of proof not defense

RaffertyLFP: Heeney said "reasonable doubt" is an old concept. Doubt cannot be base on far-fetched speculation but on logic

Reasonable doubt leads to an acquittal, but must come logically from the evidence.

 

[~n/t~]

Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
"If you have a reasonable doubt you must acquit, if you do not have a reasonable doubt you must convict." - Justice Heeney

 

[Sailor Bug]

RaffertyLFP: Heeney said "probable" guilt is not good enough for conviction but jury does not have to be absolutely certain of guilt - that unrealistic

If jurors are not sure, based on the evidence, Rafferty committed a crime, they should find him not guilty, Heeney says.

RaffertyLFP: Heeney turns to evidence - He says evidence may be honestly given by witness but may not be reliable

 

[Flossie JMO]

LONDON, ONT.— Science took centre stage at theTori Stafford murder trial Wednesday as the Crown presented, perhaps, the single most important piece of evidence in the case: a mixed sample of DNA found from Michael Rafferty’s blue and green Goodlife Fitness gym bag.

Blood stains on the bottom surface of the bag were determined to be a mix of DNA from three people, two of those nearly certainly Rafferty and Tori, said a scientist with the Centre for Forensic Sciences in Toronto.

Rafferty can’t be excluded, Tori can’t be excluded from the sample, Jennifer McLean said in forensic lingo. She added the chance that it was from anyone other than Tori was 1 in 28 billion.

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/a...bric-came-from-car-like-rafferty-s-trial-told

McLean also described how investigators found a gym bag inside the car which had DNA from three individuals. Testing showed that two of those were likely Rafferty and Tori.



http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2012/04/11/rafferty-stafford-dna-evidence.html

JMO the two articles are slightly different.

 

[~n/t~]

Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
"It is not enough for you to decided the accused is probably or likely guilty..." - Justice Heeney RE: reasonable doubt

 

[Sailor Bug]

RaffertyLFP: Heeney said jury must consider whether witness is biased and whether they were in a position to give accurate evidence

RaffertyLFP: Heeney asks jury to size up the witnesses as to credibility - warns some may be nervous

 

[~n/t~]

Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Judge: Reasonable doubt not based on speculation, must logically emerge from evidence.

Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Judge: Reasonable doubt does not apply to individual pieces of evidence, but only on the total body of evidence.

 

[~n/t~]

LONDON, ONT.— Science took centre stage at theTori Stafford murder trial Wednesday as the Crown presented, perhaps, the single most important piece of evidence in the case: a mixed sample of DNA found from Michael Rafferty’s blue and green Goodlife Fitness gym bag.

Blood stains on the bottom surface of the bag were determined to be a mix of DNA from three people, two of those nearly certainly Rafferty and Tori, said a scientist with the Centre for Forensic Sciences in Toronto.

Rafferty can’t be excluded, Tori can’t be excluded from the sample, Jennifer McLean said in forensic lingo. She added the chance that it was from anyone other than Tori was 1 in 28 billion.

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/a...bric-came-from-car-like-rafferty-s-trial-told

McLean also described how investigators found a gym bag inside the car which had DNA from three individuals. Testing showed that two of those were likely Rafferty and Tori.



http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2012/04/11/rafferty-stafford-dna-evidence.html

JMO the two articles are slightly different.

Thanks for looking that up. I'd like to see the judge'e exact quote when the transcripts become available.

 

[Jezbel]

RaffertyLFP: Heeney said "reasonable doubt" is an old concept. Doubt cannot be base on far-fetched speculation but on logic [via Twitter]

 

[~n/t~]

Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Judge gives jury list of questions they can use to assess whether they believe some, all or none of a witnesses' testimony

 

[Sailor Bug]

RaffertyLFP: Heeney says the Crown is not liable for all the statements made by witness - some parts of testimony may be unreliable

RaffertyLFP: Heeney says he is breaking his charge into one hour segments - jokes that jurors will likely be watching the clock

Heeney says they are allowed to believe all, some or none of what a witness says

Heeney says there will be hourly breaks so jurors can prepare "as we all watch the clock".

 

[otto]

Were the jurors allowed to watch tv and internet while the trial was on BEFORE deliberations?

Neither. They are not allowed to have any contact with any information related to the case at any time during the trial.

 

[~n/t~]

Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Judge tells jury he'll be speaking in one-hour segments. Cracks a joke about people watching the clock


Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
Judge says jury may believe all, none or some of what a witness said, depending on credibility and reliability of the witness

 

[Sailor Bug]

Heeney says only evidence seen in the courtroom can be considered. Questions from lawyers are not evidence, unless adopted by a witness.

RaffertyLFP: Heeney says statements of lawyers of himself are not evidence only statements of witnesses and exhibits filed are evidence

RaffertyLFP: Heeney explains difference between direct and circumstantial evidence

 

[~n/t~]

Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Crown: Not a numbers game, can’t decide this based on who called most number of witnesses. Credibility and reliability, not quantity