Trial Thread 10 May 2012 - Judge's Instructions and maybe deliberations!

[Jezbel]

If he honestly did not know about the kidnapping until HD and did indeed drive to MT Forest to think or figure out what to do next then no he is not guilty of 1st degree. Where is the intent?

Intent is not needed if he knew that Tori was kidnapped prior to being murdered no?

 

[nursebeeme]

I am poised and ready to open the verdict watch thread (if the judge wraps it up before I have to leave to pick up nurse kid)

also: salem has created a poll on charges and I have created a poll on how long you think the jury will be out...

and..

we should be getting lots of new information when the publication ban is lifted...

 

[otto]

this is where I have problems with too much information: the autopsy said it was likely that the blows came from a hammer.. and this is a circumstantial case yet the judge is telling them this and that about the hammer....

I have never seen anything like this.. I am not sure if this is normal in Canada but this is like force feeding here especially considering this is a circumstantial case (like most are)

There's nothing unusual about it.

 

[Jezbel]

I don't think I will be able to sleep tonight, feel free to join me in tea and biscuits if you can't either

 

[Sailor Bug]

Jury back in the courtroom.

Heeney says he told the jury McClintic told police she wanted to stop buy the hammer. She actually said stopping was Rafferty's idea.

RaffertyLFP: Jury back in Heeney makes a minor adjustment to his statement about whose decision it was to buy the hammer at Home Depot

RaffertyLFP: Henry said there is section of Criminal Code that provides for conviction if an accused knew the crime would likely result in murder

 

[snoofer]

I am poised and ready to open the verdict watch thread (if the judge wraps it up before I have to leave to pick up nurse kid)

also: salem has created a poll on charges and I have created a poll on how long you think the jury will be out...

and..

we should be getting lots of new information when the publication ban is lifted...

lmao "nurse kid" MOO

 

[snoofer]

Heyyyyyy, do you guys think that the flood gates will open right away on the stuff that has been held back by media?? I mean right after the judge sends the jury off???? MOO

 

[Flowercb]

Yes, but the crown presented it as a sexual motive and dismissed the drug debt theory ... so from what I understand can use drug debt theory to determine guilty. (No evidence presented of drug debt)

If his lawyer presented, on behalf of his client and with his clients testimony to him and his permission that he understood that Tori was taken, as he did, who cares about the drug debt--he knew she was kidnapped--that's all that matters. MOO!

 

[Sailor Bug]

RaffertyLFP: Heeney said the accused would be guilty even if they did not do the murder or aid in the murder - only if they knew it was likely to happen

 

[giantalkinghead]

Heyyyyyy, do you guys think that the flood gates will open right away on the stuff that has been held back by media?? I mean right after the judge sends the jury off???? MOO

I'll bet the stories are already written !!

 

[Tahorn]

Um, driving to a secluded laneway shows me I - N - T - E - N - T
If he knew at HD, why leave Guelph?

I certainly don’t know ... but did he intend for the child to die?
We can all say yes, but it doesn't make it so.

He obviously is not innocent, but was he the driving force behind the events of that day?

1st degree or manslaughter

 

[Bravo]

Heyyyyyy, do you guys think that the flood gates will open right away on the stuff that has been held back by media?? I mean right after the judge sends the jury off???? MOO

I hope so. It would be a perfect diversion.

 

[OhSoCurious]

Funny, my husband said the same thing ... He said that if a women friend asked for a ride with a child he would not of questioned it would never even crossed his mind that it might be a kidnapping

Especially when his main focus was just getting out to BA's house to make his perc pick up. That's all that was on his mind. So what if TLM needed to take the kid she was watching. Gotta get the percs! MOO JMO IMO

 

[swedie]

... of course - the choice to present only one witness would not be grounds. It's not what I meant and that's not what worries me. What worries me is that if he is found guilty of First Degree Murder - he has the right to apply for an appeal. Perhaps the defence presented less witnesses in order to keep it less muddy so to speak in the case of some sort of a retrial or appeal. Keeping in mind that a hung jury = retrial. Maybe they are more confident in the lack of evidence than we think they are. It looks more and more like the only reliable witness/evidence they have is TLM... that's pretty scary IMO.

I sure didn't expect that DNA stuff about the gym bag coming up first thing this morning and I don't like it !!

Let's hope I'm just a WorryWort !!

The DNA issue that arouse this morning was in regards to closing arguments from yesterday; see post 44 and 46. Issues that arose from Derstine about evidence that was being given to jurors. Maybe Derstine was trying to have that evidence removed. HTH

 

[Sailor Bug]

Heeney finished with the murder portion of the charge. Now reviewing positions of crown and defense.

RaffertyLFP: Heeney is concluding with a quick summary of the final arguments of the Crown and the defense

Defense says McClintic has lied under oath, and is a violent person who was the "engine" who drove Tori's murder.

Justice Heeney says he will now review the positions of the Crown and Defence.

 

[giantalkinghead]

I certainly don’t know ... but did he intend for the child to die?
We can all say yes, but it doesn't make it so.

He obviously is not innocent, but was he the driving force behind the events of that day?

1st degree or manslaughter

Honestly... you have to ask yourself why he was parked in the parking lot up the hill from the school... what was he waiting there for ?? This is where the defence story falls apart... for me anyhow MOO

 

[Oldsoul2]

Does anyone know if they will announce the verdict on HLN or any news channel?

 

[Tahorn]

If his lawyer presented, on behalf of his client and with his clients testimony to him and his permission that he understood that Tori was taken, as he did, who cares about the drug debt--he knew she was kidnapped--that's all that matters. MOO!

Because if the jury doesn't believe the kidnapping was sexually motivated then they may have enough reasonable doubt to convict.

 

[Sailor Bug]

Does anyone know if they will announce the verdict on HLN or any news channel?

NG not likely Oldsoul2

London news will have it...so will Websluths

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/05/10/19740531.html

 

[Sailor Bug]

There was nothing but Terri-Lynne McClintic's word to show Rafferty knew why Tori was in his car.

Crown's position is Rafferty and McClintic acted together, taking Tori for sexual purposed.