Trial Thread, May 1, 2012 Defense begins it case in chief

[myzzy]

i think if we look at the defence doing their case in chapters as did the crown. They feel they are able to show either evidence or reasonable doubt without the need for any further witness ( hence the few more months expected to take )

I think today is the only witness and they are addressing the kidnapping charge, and as i take the defences questioning, i see where reasonable doubt could come in to play and or that MR did not kidnap Tori because it was TLM who did it without his knowledge (Editted to add, Does not mean he did not know)

because if it is to be believed by this witness, Tori was not with a stranger it would appear, because if TLM went into that school then it could be assumed Tori was a target (*Whatever reason for the kidnapping) and known by TLM

 

[Ardy]

We don't know if that was TLM entering the school, that could've been a staff member for all we know. She didn't see her exit the school either.

Were staff members walking with VS down the sidewalk........in an identical coat?

What I am wondering about now is the VS teacher's testimony.

If she saw VS going out and then back to the classroom for her earrings, and then out again...............why didn't she see TLM?

There is no reason to disbelieve this witness. She has no credibility issues and no reason to hide anything or lie.

She was at the school often picking up her own grand kids.

Posters are making derogatory remarks about her......and don't even know anything about her........including her age.

If she says she saw TLM walking in the front door of the school...........TLM walked in the front door of the school.........IMO.

Believe the witness or TLM?...........................JMO.

 

[SideKick]

On the vid we see a woman outside standing alone with a white coat, Tori approaches and off they walk together, rather a quick pace to boot off the school property and down the street towards the other ugly person .... Dear God.....

 

[Wondergirl]

We don't know that for a fact. In any case, this poor lady's testimony doesn't negate anything that has been presented by the crown, and the Crown seems to have done a good job making her testimony less credible by inferring that her information became more detailed after viewing the tape.

The only questions this opens up for me are:
WTH is Derstine thinking?
and
Which jail are they going to put MR in since Kingston is closing?
imo

I vote these two for best questions of the day!

 

[Alison]

They obviously have nothing to defend except 'hope' they can plant reasonable doubt.... but how? MR was at the scene. Period.

Especially since us up here in Northern Ontario have videos in all schools, and you have to be buzzed into the schools as well. So I do not understand why Southern Ontario has not adopted this policy as well. Or perhaps they do have it???

 

[Sailor Bug]

Close
Rafferty trial day 30 (05/01/2012)

11:56 Mike Knoll: Hank Daniszewski's morning update:

A Woodstock grandma said she got a clear look at a dark-haired woman who leading Tori Stafford away on April 8, 2009.

"She walked briskly and looked straight ahead like she was on a mission,"

said the woman who was Oliver Stephens School picking up her grandchildren. She said Tori was skipping along behind looking happy but trying to keep up.

The woman was the first and only witness for defense lawyer Dirk Derstine.

He has suggested that Terri-Lynne McClintic -- identified as the woman in the white coat -- masterminded the abduction.

The grandmom said she got a good look at the woman in front of the school, entering the school and later on Fyfe Avenue.

She caught her attention because she was wearing a puffy ski jacket on a hot day.

Under cross-examination the Crown pointed out that the grandmom's memory conflicted with some earlier statements she made to police in April and May of 2009.

 

[Dmman]

The more time I have to digest what happened this morning, the more relaxed I am about the outcome. I think the only reason MR plead not guilty was in hopes of bring released per-trail. I'm happy this is coming to a swift end for Tori's family. Thinking of them all today for sure!

 

[Bravo]

Yes Cameras would be a good idea. It seems since this is Canada most think we are immune to the many crimes we read of. Well guess what Canada it is happening here. There are several laws that need to change.

 

[Sillybilly]

I half expected a story so riduculous that we would laugh and roll our eyes.

<rsbm>

We'll probably have that opportunity when the defence does their closing argument JK

I'm sure Derstine is doing the best with what he had to work with, and will do the biggest spin he can in closing.

JMO

 

[SideKick]

I couldn't agree more! If it is a money problem that they don't, I know I personally would do away with a lot of the other fundraising they do and give a whole lot more to this type of thing where I know children for years and years to come would be kept safe!!!!!! Maybe this should be another law passed in Tori's name.

Yes netti_82, I totally so agree, that this has to happen. Mariam in Toronto who disappeared apparently went to school with her brother, took him to one door and then was to go into the front door herself but unfortunately, there was no camera's in or outside of the school. Forest Hill Colleigiate to boot!! Where are there tax $ going? Save the children!

 

[Wondergirl]

Steven D'Souza&#8207;@cbcsteve

Court has resumed with legal arguments. Jury not present.

https://twitter.com/#

 

[nursebeeme]

Were staff members walking with VS down the sidewalk........in an identical coat?

What I am wondering about now is the VS teacher's testimony.

If she saw VS going out and then back to the classroom for her earrings, and then out again...............why didn't she see TLM?

There is no reason to disbelieve this witness. She has no credibility issues and no reason to hide anything or lie.

She was at the school often picking up her own grand kids.

Posters are making derogatory remarks about her......and don't even know anything about her........including her age.

If she says she saw TLM walking in the front door of the school...........TLM walked in the front door of the school.........IMO.

Believe the witness or TLM?...........................JMO.

eyewitnesses can be unreliable. It has nothing to do with their personal credibility.. it has to do with seeing something with your eyes and being able to recall details.

I have not seen derogatory comments. If there have been please alert. It has been stated that she is a grandmother.


Just because she says she saw TLM walk in the school does not mean that 100% TLM walked into the school. The witness also said she was not carrying anything but in the video TLM was carrying a purse.

moo

 

[Flowercb]

i think if we look at the defence doing their case in chapters as did the crown. They feel they are able to show either evidence or reasonable doubt without the need for any further witness ( hence the few more months expected to take )

I think today is the only witness and they are addressing the kidnapping charge, and as i take the defences questioning, i see where reasonable doubt could come in to play and or that MR did not kidnap Tori because it was TLM who did it without his knowledge (Editted to add, Does not mean he did not know)

because if it is to be believed by this witness, Tori was not with a stranger it would appear, because if TLM went into that school then it could be assumed Tori was a target (*Whatever reason for the kidnapping) and known by TLM

This witness cannot be believed..Can't remember things and noone else saw TLM going in the school...timeline of women seeing TLM going in and seeing them walking on the street doesn't fit either.MOO.

 

[Sailor Bug]

Jurors still not in the courtroom.

 

[Oldsoul2]

On top of this Derstine claimed publicly before the trial that there was alot we don't know and will be shocked about or something like that. I'm shocked, definitely shocked at the total lack of defense.

 

[Salem]

NO unless he wants to end his career.

There is no ineffective counsel here. Derstine is doing his best. What that tells us is there there is nothing, except one witness' statement, that indirectly conflicts with Tori's teacher's statement, to help.

Derstine cannot present character witnesses, because if he does, the Crown can rebut and I have a feeling that wouldn't be pretty.

All the other evidence corroborates what TLM said -- the videos, the BB, the women.

Certainly I don't have a reasonable doubt at this point.

Salem

 

[Ardy]

She didnt lie about it. She was never asked the question.

TLM said she was outside and took a child at random.

She lied..............about the abduction and the murder.

JMO.

 

[Alison]

Were staff members walking with VS down the sidewalk........in an identical coat?

What I am wondering about now is the VS teacher's testimony.

If she saw VS going out and then back to the classroom for her earrings, and then out again...............why didn't she see TLM?

There is no reason to disbelieve this witness. She has no credibility issues and no reason to hide anything or lie.

She was at the school often picking up her own grand kids.

Posters are making derogatory remarks about her......and don't even know anything about her........including her age.

If she says she saw TLM walking in the front door of the school...........TLM walked in the front door of the school.........IMO.

Believe the witness or TLM?...........................JMO.

What exactly are you implying? That the teacher lied? I am not sure I understand what it is you are saying. I agree we should not make fun of the gramma. However I believe if the teacher says that TS left the school alone that she left the school alone. I believe that the Gramma's memories have been altered as she has watched the video over and over and read information in the paper. I believe an expert witness in this field would testify that her memories are warped due to the conditions imposed on her. I also believe there would be some sort of surveilence of her entering the school IMO.

 

[Wondergirl]

This is interesting.

Randy Richmond might be hosting a chat regarding the information that is going to be released out from under the Publication Ban.

11:55
Mike Knoll:

@kATIA - as a series of news stories. We are trying to organize a chat with Randy Richmond who is the absolute expert on this case.
Tuesday May 1, 2012 11:55 Mike Knoll

11:54

[Comment From kATIA kATIA : ]

Will the additional information be posted in this forum or as a LFP news story

11:54
Mike Knoll:
@Lisa - I assume so.

Tuesday May 1, 2012 11:54 Mike Knoll

11:54

[Comment From Lisa Lisa : ]

Will we find out info on TLM when the trial is over for MR. Will the ban be lifted from what happened with TLM?

 

[myzzy]

Well, for one thing after this, I think Ontario should proceed with installing video camera's in ALL schools, public as well as private and secondary schools. Geesh. It is 2012 isn't it?

I couldnt agree more, these are our kids we are entrusting to our system. Keep them safe and falcalty safe also. I seriously doubt it would cost that much to enstall cameras in our schools, a one day drive could equip a single child school and if every school did it hmmmm...

Our goverment is starting to come around finally... Its a start
Harper Government announces new income support program for parents of victims of crime
http://http://merrifieldmp.com/?p=742