Try to keep an open mind, an open heart and an open eye.

[Tuffy]

Soooo....is it just me, or have we learned exactly nothing today, fostering in some the wish that the family had kept closer ties with local media, if only for the presence of weekend stories?

I just read the thread stating that there will be a balloon release held by family and friends. I'm glad to hear there is some effort to keep this story out there.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Nope, doesn't add up at all! I feel that if the police have evidence of a break-in and they're purposely keeping it secret it is extremely cruel.

The family is under an umbrella of suspicion because their story doesn't add up, and the lack of any evidence of the intruder.

In my mind, I feel that the police probably do not have any evidence of the intruder.

Maybe there WAS no break-in. Maybe someone was INVITED in, who later became an abductor.

 

[marge_rita]

Honestly, I am firmly on the fence as far as the parents involvement.. Which as I stated several days ago is a very unusual position for me with it nearing 2 weeks since Lisa "disappeared".. By that point I usually find myself on one side or the other, of course not firmly planted either way, but ATLEAST have a better grasp on whether their is immediate family involvement or not.. That is not the place I find myself in baby Lisa's case.. I cannot say with any certainty one way or the other and am open and ready to accept whatever next pieces of evidence that come to light.. Hoping that info or detail(s) is more definitive than what we've seen thus far, and is indicative of either the parent(s) is/are infact involved.. Or indicating that the parent(s) is/are NOT involved in their daughter, Lisa's disappearance.. I am definitely finding that this "on the fence" position is the most difficult, as well as uncomfortable position OF ALL!!!.. which is surprising as beforehand I wouldve assumed "the fence" to have been the MOST COMFORTABLE POSITION OF ALL.. IMO IT IS NOT AND COULD NOT BE FURTHER FROM COMFORTABLE OR EASY..

Being on the fence and not having an inkling of who is responsible.. And not even knowing what it is that has been done to Lisa for the responsible part(ies) to be guilty of doing?? .. I believe there are a majority(according to polling "did mom do it")that are on the proverbial fence.. So, In not knowing who is involved of course we are going to theorize and discuss all avenues within TOS guidelines.. This of course includes the parents.. With my being not certain either way I am still bandying about various theories with and without both or either of Lisa's parents, Deb and Jeremy.. IMO with it not being known for certain either way it would be an Injustice(<- for lack of a better word at this particular moment) to not still discuss and theorize scenarios involving both or either of the parents.. IMO they are still relevant and possibly pertinent to theorizing the case.. I have several times(at great length, of course..lol) been involved in discussing mainly Deb's possible involvement with theorizing on what type motives there could possibly be that would have had to have been present IMO for her to be involved in her own babies disappearance.. While discussing multiple and differing scenarios of the how, the why, the when, and the where with our having very little knowledge of the family's past&present, the fam's dynamics, and certainly no knowledge of what possibly occurred behind closed doors.. So with us not knowing SO VERY MUCH.. there are infact many different possibilities to "plug in" each of the different scenarios/theories discussed.. They are nothing more than just that, "possibilities" That come from logical conclusions, maybe past or other missing children's cases, or even possibly coming from one of our own personal gut instincts or intuitions.. By the trial and error of "plugging in" each of the many different possibilities we discuss what makes the most logical sense, we poke holes in each of the possible theories we're discussing, or file it away in one of our mental compartments that we may personally feel it is not only possible, and not only plausible, but in our own personal opinion may be a particular theory to be actually PROBABLE to have been similar to what actually occurred late night of Oct 3rd.. Into wee early morning hours of Oct 4th..

We just don't know yet.. And IMO at this present state we'd be remiss not to still be exploring all avenues, possibilities.. And yes, IMO that includes the parents.. My opinion is NOT to EXCLUDE the parents when discussing the various different theories of the case.. I personally INCLUDE the parents in some of the possible theories I have offered and discussed.. We DON'T know that they are NOT involved, nor do we know that they ARE involved.. IMPO both theories are still up for debate and discussion.. I have zero issue with it(it being the parents involvement) being discussed as a possibility or an avenue to look at when theorizing.. This obvious due to my own personal theories offered with parents involved "plugged in" as a possibility.. But IMPO equally as possible is that they are NOT involved in their daughter's disappearance.. Therefor that avenue as well warrants being just as equally discussed and theorized..jmo, tho! What I personally choose not to do is look AT ONE, LONE POSSIBILITY AND THAT ONE, LONE POSSIBILITY BEING THAT IM CERTAIN THAT DEB OR JEREMY OR BOTH IS/ARE GUILTY OF WHAT'S HAPPENED TO THEIR DAUGHTER.. and take it further with an opinion that they're involved and from there damn and condemn every past, present, and future statement, demeanor, behavior, action, reaction, etc, etc.. But this is just me personally..*

I just wanted to clarify my personal position of still being on this damn fence.. And in that position all possibilities are still up for discussion in theorizing IMO.. I am not passing judgement on anyone's theorizing of the parents involvement as clearly that is still an open avenue.. AS IS EVERY OTHER POSSIBILITY AS WELL, again IMOO..

** hope that wasn't too painfully loooong for anyone reading**

** and no worries marge.. I didn't take your comment as anything offensive in the least.. Lol.. If we don't take time to have a few moments of light hearted laughter and fun IMO we'd all end up with an extended stay in the looney bin..

Another great post. :blowkiss:

 

[anothersheart71]

Not sure how this compares on a National level but Missouri has 1,164 people missing....they are all listed out on the Missouri Highway Patrol Website grouped by children and adult....they range from 2 days old to 45 and over....

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=673950#.TpoOJ3J4ePN

 

[marge_rita]

Maybe there WAS no break-in. Maybe someone was INVITED in, who later became an abductor.

I know! One minute I'm certain it was the mom and or dad; the next minute I think maybe mom went to sleep and someone there took the baby. :banghead:

My sincerest wish is that this baby is found alive and well.


imo

 

[wfgodot]

Very good, lengthy KC Star article I haven't seen posted elsewhere:

Neighborhood’s trust, stability vanish with missing girl

In the Northland block where infant Lisa Irwin vanished — perhaps stolen in the night by a stranger or, many fear, the victim of an act more heinous — the streets converge at North Lister Drive, North Chelsea Avenue and Northeast 37th Street.

But now, 11 days after the alleged abduction, the residents of this old, working-class neighborhood of tall oaks and split-level homes find themselves standing at a different crossroad.

It is emotional, marked by hope, fear — and with every passing hour and curious turn — suspicion.

No matter if or when the mystery is solved, they say, this neighborhood is forever changed.
---

much more at link

 

[yllek]

Poop, I just knew you were going to ask that, lol. I do not recall if it was reported by the Irwin's or reported as vetted by LE. I am off to look for the relevant link.

Just got back home - thanks for replying tlcox! Please don't search and search (I had to do that twice yesterday and came up empty). I'd hoped you were referring to an official "report" that I'd missed. No worries. I think different times for Jeremy going to work have been batted around and reported in speculation here, but fairly certain there has never been a verified report by Jeremy, Debbi or LE (which is driving me nuts - I'm a time line kinda gal!). :seeya:

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Although he had no clues, one neighbor reportedly told police about seeing an African-American individual carrying a baby up the street around midnight, only hours before Lisa, (whose birthday on Nov. 11 would now make her 11 months old) was reported missing.

Read more: http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/14/3208365/neighborhoods-trust-stability.html#ixzz1atkau6Jn

Well, one thing we do know now...that ain't Jersey. :floorlaugh:

 

[gwenabob]

Although he had no clues, one neighbor reportedly told police about seeing an African-American individual carrying a baby up the street around midnight, only hours before Lisa, (whose birthday on Nov. 11 would now make her 11 months old) was reported missing.

Read more: http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/14/3208365/neighborhoods-trust-stability.html#ixzz1atkau6Jn

Well, one thing we do know now...that ain't Jersey. :floorlaugh:

This is the first I have heard that the man with the baby is African-American. Isn't DB's husband African-American?

 

[Mountain_Kat]

This is the first I have heard that the man with the baby is African-American. Isn't DB's husband African-American?

No clue. :waitasec:

 

[wfgodot]

"Jersey" has been arrested, btw:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=151632"]Jersey has been arrested, 10-15-11 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[katydid23]

This is the first I have heard that the man with the baby is African-American. Isn't DB's husband African-American?

I believe so. But I think he is currently deployed in the middle east.

Did this witness who saw the African American man walking with the baby say if the baby was white or black?

 

[Pensfan]

This is the first I have heard that the man with the baby is African-American. Isn't DB's husband African-American?

Asian descent?

 

[Evan's Mom]

This is my biggest quandary..When I discuss this case with family, friends, and coworkers, I preface my statements with, "I know it's most likely one or both parents are involved". But then I go on to state that despite my gut reaction, I'm still going to maintain an open mind with regards as to what happened to Lisa. Nothing I've read has lead me to the parents.
So while I assume deep down that at least one parent knows who could have taken the baby, I really don't think either killed her or had anything to do with her dying on accident.
This whole case is weird and honestly, it makes me question everything I do as a parent to make sure my kids are safe while I am asleep and unaware.

 

[Paige SC]

Speaking of fliers, has the family (or those close to) organized search efforts of their own? Is there a call center? Are fliers being printed and plastered on every tree and business in the area? Can anyone tell me what the parents have done other than talk to the media, hire a defense attorney (who's known for assisting a former client in beating murder charges of his own baby), and reportedly refuse and/or fail a poly?

 

[wfgodot]

Speaking of fliers, has the family (or those close to) organized search efforts of their own? Is there a call center? Are fliers being printed and plastered on every tree and business in the area? Can anyone tell me what the parents have done other than talk to the media, hire a defense attorney (who's known for assisting a former client in beating murder charges of his own baby), and reportedly refuse and/or fail a poly?

No one refused a poly. According to the mother, LE told her she allegedly failed one. The father volunteered; LE wouldn't give him the poly. The family has been active in passing out fliers, doing so, for example, at a racing event attended by scores of thousands. If an attorney has been hired, it's been recently - the parents unwisely did not "lawyer up" at first, and wound up being grilled in an eleven hour session - which was voluntary on their part - then accused of killing their daughter. And I'm sure that KCPD and the FBI are perfectly capable of conducting organized search efforts, that being, in this case, a part of their jobs.

 

[Paige SC]

I heard about the father 'refusing' a poly on NG, so I sorta took it with a grain of salt.... but I can't imagine LE not wanting to poly someone just to rule him out in a situation like this? I realize the failed poly didn't come directly from LE but it has been reported DB said she failed it or had been told she had by LE. As for the event, I hadn't heard so thank you for clarifying. And yes, they have recently lawyered up in a big way (or so was reported last night on JVM and NG).

 

[lcookster]

I heard about the father 'refusing' a poly on NG, so I sorta took it with a grain of salt.... but I can't imagine LE not wanting to poly someone just to rule him out in a situation like this? I realize the failed poly didn't come directly from LE but it has been reported DB said she failed it or had been told she had by LE. As for the event, I hadn't heard so thank you for clarifying. And yes, they have recently lawyered up in a big way (or so was reported last night on JVM and NG).

Hi Paige- LE did not do a Poly on him because they confirmed his whereabouts (work) and have not yet made him a focal point. Cheers! L

 

[3doglady]

Speaking of fliers, has the family (or those close to) organized search efforts of their own? Is there a call center? Are fliers being printed and plastered on every tree and business in the area? Can anyone tell me what the parents have done other than talk to the media, hire a defense attorney (who's known for assisting a former client in beating murder charges of his own baby), and reportedly refuse and/or fail a poly?

LE asked local volunteers not to search because they do not want potential evidence destroyed.

 

[Tuffy]

LE asked local volunteers not to search because they do not want potential evidence destroyed.

That's interesting. A local searcher found Caylee.




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