Still Missing Turkey - Jamal Khashoggi, 59, Washington Post columnist, Istanbul, 3 Oct 2018

[gregjrichards]

This is the most unreal murder I've ever heard of ... or read about in a crime novel. You couldn't make it up.

It is absolutely horrendous and beggars belief at what Mr. Khashoggi must have endured.

 

[Elley Mae]

I've just noticed something very suspicious in two of the Daily Mail videos.

1. In the video of JK and his fianceé entering their hotel, it is not being filmed by a fixed surveillance camera as you can see slight camera movement. If the Saudis filmed it, how did it get into the hands of the Turks? If the Turks filmed it, why were they doing this before the murders?

2. The same applies to the video of the 2 men burning documents outside the consulate the day following the murders. It appears to have been filmed from the rooftop, and once again there is slight camera movement. Who filmed it and why?

Adding to my suspicions is the fact that we've read that two vehicles belonging to the consulate left the building on Oct 2. One travelled to a nearby forest and farmland while the other travelled to the city of Yalova where the holiday house is located and was driven by a member of the hit squad. How do the Turks know this? Why were the Saudis being followed on the day of the murder
I’m seriously considering that the Turks knew this murder was going to occur and did nothing to stop it.

Add to this the fact that they say they have audio and visual recordings of the murder itself. This can only mean that the consulate was bugged, and if it was, they may well have been privy to conversations of what was going to happen. This may be the reason why they haven’t provided these recordings to anyone. They'd have a lot of explaining to do.

I think there's a lot more to this story than we know.

Khashoggi's son glares at Saudi Crown Prince blamed for father's death | Daily Mail Online

I've just noticed something very suspicious in two of the Daily Mail videos.

1. In the video of JK and his fianceé entering their hotel, it is not being filmed by a fixed surveillance camera as you can see slight camera movement. If the Saudis filmed it, how did it get into the hands of the Turks? If the Turks filmed it, why were they doing this before the murders?

2. The same applies to the video of the 2 men burning documents outside the consulate the day following the murders. It appears to have been filmed from the rooftop, and once again there is slight camera movement. Who filmed it and why?

Adding to my suspicions is the fact that we've read that two vehicles belonging to the consulate left the building on Oct 2. One travelled to a nearby forest and farmland while the other travelled to the city of Yalova where the holiday house is located and was driven by a member of the hit squad. How do the Turks know this? Why were the Saudis being followed on the day of the murder?

I’m seriously considering that the Turks knew this murder was going to occur and did nothing to stop it.

Add to this the fact that they say they have audio and visual recordings of the murder itself. This can only mean that the consulate was bugged, and if it was, they may well have been privy to conversations of what was going to happen. This may be the reason why they haven’t provided these recordings to anyone. They'd have a lot of explaining to do.

I think there's a lot more to this story than we know.

Khashoggi's son glares at Saudi Crown Prince blamed for father's death | Daily Mail Online

I agree that the turks knew.

 

[Angleterre]

The ones that are Saudi citizens must be very very worried.

No bloodthirsty feudal lord likes to make a martyr of a foe, and removing all his lineage has often been part and parcel of the vanquishing.

I am very concerned that the sons are going to be falsely threatened with dissent and activities against the state and imprisoned, or worse at some time in the future.

I understand where you are coming from and in fact history backs your assertion but I look at it a little differently on this case because of the international pressure now on the KSA and they couldn’t afford for anything to now happen to Jamal Khashoggi relatives as the eyes of the world are watching and their every move scrutinised and in respect of this family, I suspect that will be the case for time immemorial now . All MOO

 

[JudgeJudi]

A friend of the Khashoggi family said that Salah and his brother Sahel were banned last year from leaving the kingdom in a bid to pressure JK to return home. I hope the US and/or other countries can bring some sort of pressure to bear on the Crown prince to allow them both to leave if that is their wish. Their family name will be burned into the minds of the royal family for a long time and that’s a frightening thought. The current prince takes no prisoners.

The US State Dept. said 21 “Saudi suspects” would have visas revoked or would be declared ineligible to enter the U.S. “These penalties will not be the last word on this matter,” Pompeo said. I can see the Saudis quaking in their boots with that huge threat. When the prince arrived at the investment forum he got a standing ovation.

 

[JudgeJudi]

O/T Live now ... Live Coverage: Suspicious packages intercepted addressed to Obama, Clinton

Secret Service intercepted suspicious packages addressed to former President Barack Obama and former first lady Hillary Clinton. The Time Warner Center, which houses CNN, has also been evacuated due to a similar package.

 

[dotr]

O/T Live now ... Live Coverage: Suspicious packages intercepted addressed to Obama, Clinton

Secret Service intercepted suspicious packages addressed to former President Barack Obama and former first lady Hillary Clinton. The Time Warner Center, which houses CNN, has also been evacuated due to a similar package.

O/t on Monday, Oct 23 2018, this happened..
Explosive device found in Soros post box
"A suspect package found in a post box at the home of billionaire businessman George Soros contained an explosive device, New York police have confirmed.

The item was discovered on Monday by an employee of Mr Soros, who took it to a nearby wooded area, where it was later destroyed by bomb squad officers.

The incident is being investigated by the FBI's Joint Terrorism Task Force.

Mr Soros has become a frequent target for criticism by right-wing groups due to his support for liberal causes."

 

[JudgeJudi]

Bearing in mind that Khashoggi was living in the US and had applied for citizenship, I believe his only mistake was asking for reform in the kingdom, and because he worked for the Washington Post, he was able to get his message out to a large audience. I doubt he did very much at all when you consider the following.

The Saudi Public Prosecution Office has increased the number of cases brought to the Specialized Criminal Court in 2018 by 182 percent over the previous year. The government has one of the highest execution rates in the world. So far this year they have already beheaded 109 people. Most people executed in SA are beheaded with a sword.

The Crown prince is ruthlessly targeting dissidents and human rights activists and beheads those who dare to oppose him.

A 28 year old female activist was arrested and imprisoned in 2015. The charges were based on her political chants, social media posts and involvement in demonstrations. None of the evidence suggested any participation in any violent acts. Yet the prosecutor demanded the death sentence for all of the detainees except one. She has now become the first Saudi female activist to face the prospect of execution for acts of peaceful dissent. Her next court hearing is on Oct. 28, when the court may deliberate on her final sentencing. Her husband is facing the same charges and now her father risks being tried along the same lines as he’s been charged with inciting the public against the state”.

The sad part is that the western world is more than happy to do business with countries like this. The dollar beats humanity every time. Will there be any real punishment? I rather doubt it.

Opinion | A young Saudi woman is facing execution — for taking part in nonviolent protests

 

[JudgeJudi]

Deleted by me. Double post.

 

[SJ16321]

The sad part is that the western world is more than happy to do business with countries like this. The dollar beats humanity every time. Will there be any real punishment? I rather doubt it.

Opinion | A young Saudi woman is facing execution — for taking part in nonviolent protests

Absolutely. Apart from the money, I think another issue which will stop any punishment is that countries like the USA and the UK are willing to overlook pretty much anything to keep a powerful ally, especially in a very volatile place like the Middle East. Saddam Hussein for example was an evil dictator but it's arguable that life in Iraq was much better under him than it has been since his fall.

Similar with Assad in Syria. With his power weakened, ISIS had managed to make gains in Syria just like it did in Iraq. As horrible as it is I think some of these Middle East countries require a maniacal dictator as it stops the even worse options waiting in the wings (such as ISIS) from getting anywhere near power.

I should say I don't like saying that and in an ideal world all countries would be democracies with a free press and the right to freedom of expression. However I think sometimes you have to be realistic. Western interference on Middle East countries to try and implement democracy and our way of doings things has never gone well.

 

[Herat]

I agree that the turks knew.

Erdogan and Khashoggi were reported to be "friends". I believe Erogan may have also been a business partner in the TV station that Khashoggi was starting in Turkey.

Erdogan first showed up at the consulate on Sept 28, without an appointment and without the Saudis knowing he was coming. They then told him to come back later and he went to London to work with some colleagues. We don't know when he intended to return. The Saudis then contacted him that weekend while he was in London and gave him an appointment time. They had already prepared a plan and were organizing an assassination squad.

I believe that Khashoggi probably confided in Erdogan about the upcoming Saudi visit and may have requested some extra security for his fiancee waiting outside. Maybe Erdogan suggested he wear a wire or other surveillance device. Maybe Erdogan also suggested the consulate be monitored during his visit.

I don't think Erdogan or Khashoggi thought he would be murdered there. I think the worst they both thought was that they would try to abduct him. Likely the Turks were watching for people & vehicles exiting the consulate. Which raises the possibility that the Turks saw the imposter leaving that same day and perhaps didn't recognize in time that he was supposed to be posing as Khashoggi.

Yeah, I think there is a great deal that the Turks know that they might not want to turn over.

 

[Angleterre]

I understand where you are coming from in relation to this and like you , wish it wasn’t the case but it was more ‘controlled’ shall we say with the likes of Saddam in power , unlike the happenings since !

 

[Angleterre]

Absolutely. Apart from the money, I think another issue which will stop any punishment is that countries like the USA and the UK are willing to overlook pretty much anything to keep a powerful ally, especially in a very volatile place like the Middle East. Saddam Hussein for example was an evil dictator but it's arguable that life in Iraq was much better under him than it has been since his fall.

Similar with Assad in Syria. With his power weakened, ISIS had managed to make gains in Syria just like it did in Iraq. As horrible as it is I think some of these Middle East countries require a maniacal dictator as it stops the even worse options waiting in the wings (such as ISIS) from getting anywhere near power.

I should say I don't like saying that and in an ideal world all countries would be democracies with a free press and the right to freedom of expression. However I think sometimes you have to be realistic. Western interference on Middle East countries to try and implement democracy and our way of doings things has never gone well.

This is what I was replying to

 

[Herat]

Wow. Talk about an assassination.

Good thing the Turks decided to always keep a ear and eye out on Saudi Arabia.

I wonder if they will go to war soon and try to have the U.S behind them.

The last thing Erdogan wants is war with SA. He has volatile Syria (and Lebanon) along his southern front, the Kurdish uprising in the east, and is a member of NATO, so that any war could implicate all of Europe and the US.

Erdogan needs money. That's likely what he wants from SA, and displacement of Mid-East power to him

 

[Herat]

Bearing in mind that Khashoggi was living in the US and had applied for citizenship, I believe his only mistake was asking for reform in the kingdom, and because he worked for the Washington Post, he was able to get his message out to a large audience. I doubt he did very much at all when you consider the following.

The Saudi Public Prosecution Office has increased the number of cases brought to the Specialized Criminal Court in 2018 by 182 percent over the previous year. The government has one of the highest execution rates in the world. So far this year they have already beheaded 109 people. Most people executed in SA are beheaded with a sword.

The Crown prince is ruthlessly targeting dissidents and human rights activists and beheads those who dare to oppose him.

A 28 year old female activist was arrested and imprisoned in 2015. The charges were based on her political chants, social media posts and involvement in demonstrations. None of the evidence suggested any participation in any violent acts. Yet the prosecutor demanded the death sentence for all of the detainees except one. She has now become the first Saudi female activist to face the prospect of execution for acts of peaceful dissent. Her next court hearing is on Oct. 28, when the court may deliberate on her final sentencing. Her husband is facing the same charges and now her father risks being tried along the same lines as he’s been charged with inciting the public against the state”.

The sad part is that the western world is more than happy to do business with countries like this. The dollar beats humanity every time. Will there be any real punishment? I rather doubt it.

Opinion | A young Saudi woman is facing execution — for taking part in nonviolent protests

This, alone, should be enough for any western party or business to avoid any contact with KSA.

MBS wants to prettify the country by pretending to let women drive and go to a cinema, but then threatens a peaceful, rather mild dissenter who he has incarcerated for months with execution. There is no honest ethical judicial process in KSA. There is only ancient feudal law.

Those businesses and people that particpated in the Davos in the Desert conference should be shamed by the world and exposed:

PepsiCo
Six Flags
Secretary Mnuchin

and there are six major US companies that signed a memorandum of understanding with KSA. These are large oil and chemical based companies that are not really amenable to public boycott, like Halliburton, Schlumberger, Flexsteel and others.

But I can sure as heck call out PepsiCo and Six Flags for boycott:

Pepsi, Fritos, Lays, Gatorade, Quaker Oats, Tropicana, Mtn Dew, Sabra, Naked Juice among others. They also seem to bottle Starbucks beverages.

I saw an interview with their prior CEO, Indria Nooyi, championing her as a top female CEO. Maybe she is, but she was openly shilling their corn syrup and sodium laden products and trying to tell us PepsiCo was only making healthy food choices available. A total hypocrite sellout, just as bad as a male CEO.

 

[Herat]

There are plausible reports that the Private Offices of MBS ( which means MBS himself) were monitoring the events inside the SA consulat by Skype

MBS is a sadistic, evil man.

Why did he have such bitter enmity to Khashoggi that he had to personally order a brutal torture and assassination, and monitor it by video?

This brutality and sadism cannot be allowed in the head of a 21st century country.

 

[monkey222]

Test..

 

[Herat]

The sons of Jamal Khashoggi, Saleh and Sahel bin Khashoggi have dual US and KSA citizenship. In the past, MBS has refused to let them leave KSA as a way to further manipulate their father.

Now that their father is dead, murdered at MBS's command (to most everyone's eye) why does he not allow them to leave?

Why does the US not demand they be allowed to fly to the US?

They are US CITIZENS !!!

 

[JudgeJudi]

MBS wants to prettify the country by pretending to let women drive and go to a cinema, but then threatens a peaceful, rather mild dissenter who he has incarcerated for months with execution. There is no honest ethical judicial process in KSA. There is only ancient feudal law.

The woman and her husband have been in prison since 2015, not months, and they may learn their fate in 3 days' time. With worldwide outrage and condemnation over JK's murder, it will be interesting to see whether he's "brave" enough to order their beheading, or any other form of execution. Regardless, all the countries that do business with SA will continue to do so. Is it any wonder that ordinary citizens in almost every country you can name are absolutely fed up with their political leaders. In the west they don't order people to be executed, but they effectively shut them up by political correctness which is getting worse by the day. Character assassination is now their weapon of choice.

 

[kaen]

The sons of Jamal Khashoggi, Saleh and Sahel bin Khashoggi have dual US and KSA citizenship. In the past, MBS has refused to let them leave KSA as a way to further manipulate their father.

Now that their father is dead, murdered at MBS's command (to most everyone's eye) why does he not allow them to leave?

Why does the US not demand they be allowed to fly to the US?

They are US CITIZENS !!!

I fear that these young men will turn up dead if they leave KSA. Inside the KSA, they know the perimeters--- be silent, obedient, and deferential. Outside, if they say anything or associate with anyone the speaks against MBS, I believe they would meet with a horrible fate. I would hope the State Department is researching and looking toward what is in their best interests.

 

[JudgeJudi]

The sons of Jamal Khashoggi, Saleh and Sahel bin Khashoggi have dual US and KSA citizenship. In the past, MBS has refused to let them leave KSA as a way to further manipulate their father.

Now that their father is dead, murdered at MBS's command (to most everyone's eye) why does he not allow them to leave?

Why does the US not demand they be allowed to fly to the US?

They are US CITIZENS !!!

His editor at the Washington Post said he went to the US last year after he was barred him from writing. She said he “told me when we first met that his ex-wife was pressured into eventually divorcing him because of his critical writings. The Saudis punished him in life by restricting the travel of his children, 3 of whom are dual U.S. citizens”. All four children are barred from leaving SA.

As both parents were Saudis and JK did not yet have US citizenship, how could they acquire dual citizenship? I then read that “The Kingdom does not allow dual nationality”. “The Kingdom will cancel the citizenship of any Saudi citizen who obtains a foreign nationality without prior permission of the Interior Ministry”. As SA considered JK to be a dissident and they wanted to punish him by restricting his children’s travel, why would they give permission for them to also have US citizenship. This makes no sense at all.

http://www.arabnews.com/saudi-arabia/news/651851

“Many developed countries such as US, UK, Australia, Switzerland have no restrictions on holding dual nationality, whereas countries such as Singapore, Austria, India, Saudi Arabia do not “recognize” or “restrict” dual citizenships, leading to automatic loss of citizenship upon acquiring other”.

Countries That Allow or Disallow Dual Citizenship - D'Alessio Law Group

This case is all smoke and mirrors.