TWO elderly women as witnesses to Kate's demeanor

[Morag]

Have you seen her written statements to the police ? does anyone know exactly what she has said to the police as an official statement - sorry to be blunt but I see contradicting statements every day about what she did or didnt say

Of course I haven't seen her written statements to the police! If I had, I would be selling my story to one of the tabloids and posing for pictures like the nanny. That's what makes this case so frustrating and interesting, as well as sad and tragic. We really don't know what happened, and we can only read and analyze and discuss what has been printed in all papers great and small. Here is the only thing any of us know for sure: Madeleine has gone missing. This board would have ended on May 4 or 5 if we only discussed that one fact.

Everyone who posts on this board is in the same position- we really know nothing. But every one of us is doing our best to find information which has the ring of truth and fits into the other pieces which have the ring of truth. We've seen in pictures that Mrs. Fenn has a large balcony above the McCann's flat, and we have seen pictures of Mrs. Fenn standing there. Common sense tells us that she could have heard children crying, and that she could have heard other things as well. So when we speculate about whether she heard what the papers have said she heard, we are speculating about things within the realm of possibility.
For the most part, posters on this board are careful not to advance phony or impossible theories. No one has blamed space aliens or Elvis for the vanishing of Madeleine... And for the most part, we have presented our ideas with the expectation of a fair hearing and consideration, regardless of what doubts there may be about the sources of our information. I have been reading and posting on this board for several years, and it is truly the fairest and most dignified discussion of true crime I have seen online.

Welcome to Websleuths, gord. You have chosen wisely.
Morag

 

[Salem]

Here is the article where the neighbour denied saying that she'd heard Maddie crying or her parents arguing:-

http://www.sundaymirror.co.uk/news/sunday/2007/09/23/tot-s-screams-a-myth-98487-19833574/


[/left]

A quote from the above linked article:

"A key witness in the Madeleine McCann case yesterday DENIED telling cops that she heard the family screaming and arguing.
Pamela Fenn, 81, who lives above the Praia da Luz apartment Madeleine vanished from, supposedly said she heard the four-year-old "scream for four hours" the night before. The reports fuelled police theories that mum Kate sedated Madeleine. But widow Mrs Fenn, interviewed by police two days after Madeleine disappeared, said: "I never heard her screaming or Kate and Gerry arguing."

My bolding. I never read, in any of the "respectable" newspapers that Mrs. Fenn HAD EVER said such things, so why wouldn't she deny this? My understanding of what Mrs. Fenn MIGHT have shared with PLE is that she heard Maddie crying for over 1 hour a night or two before Maddie went missing and that the crying seemed to stop when the elder McCanns returned to the apartment after 11:00 p.m.

I was never under the impression that Mrs. Fenn might have testified to a "4 hour screaming fit" or "the parents screaming and aruging."

In my opinion, this is all "spin" put out by the tabloids in order to keep the issue confused and murky.

It is also my opinion that the media "doesn't lie" they just don't report the truth, especially when it doesn't sell papers.

Salem
​

 

[Bob&Bob]

So, Mrs. Fenn, 81 years old, has perfect hearing?

 

[philamena]

A quote from the above linked article:

SNIP

Pamela Fenn, 81, who lives above the Praia da Luz apartment Madeleine vanished from, supposedly said she heard the four-year-old "scream for four hours" the night before.
​

This is all I can say about that. My dad is 82. To him 4 minutes = 4 hours and 4 hours = 4 days. lol
He has no concept of time. Maybe Ms. Fenn is like that. I've raised 2 children and I don't know if it's possible for a child to cry for 4 hours straight. I mean, wouldn't the little thing fall asleep or run out of tears?
FYI-I would have never allowed my girls to cry that long.

 

[CaliKid]

A quote from the above linked article:

"A key witness in the Madeleine McCann case yesterday DENIED telling cops that she heard the family screaming and arguing.
Pamela Fenn, 81, who lives above the Praia da Luz apartment Madeleine vanished from, supposedly said she heard the four-year-old "scream for four hours" the night before. The reports fuelled police theories that mum Kate sedated Madeleine. But widow Mrs Fenn, interviewed by police two days after Madeleine disappeared, said: "I never heard her screaming or Kate and Gerry arguing."

My bolding. I never read, in any of the "respectable" newspapers that Mrs. Fenn HAD EVER said such things, so why wouldn't she deny this? My understanding of what Mrs. Fenn MIGHT have shared with PLE is that she heard Maddie crying for over 1 hour a night or two before Maddie went missing and that the crying seemed to stop when the elder McCanns returned to the apartment after 11:00 p.m.

I was never under the impression that Mrs. Fenn might have testified to a "4 hour screaming fit" or "the parents screaming and aruging."

In my opinion, this is all "spin" put out by the tabloids in order to keep the issue confused and murky.

It is also my opinion that the media "doesn't lie" they just don't report the truth, especially when it doesn't sell papers.

Salem
​

No, I think Salem is right. Mrs. Fenn said she heard Madeleine crying on May 1 and calling for her father.

That is not the same thing as "screaming" for 4 hours.

Nor to my knowledge has anyone ever claimed that Gerry and Kate were arguing.

It sounds as if the paper put words in Mrs. Fenn's mouth only to retract them, but by doing this, it appears as if the lady is taking back her entire statement. IOW, people will believe Mrs. Fenn is denying hearing Madeleine crying for Daddy which will throw into question whether the McCanns left the children alone on a regular basis.

 

[SleuthMom]

This is all I can say about that. My dad is 82. To him 4 minutes = 4 hours and 4 hours = 4 days. lol
He has no concept of time. Maybe Ms. Fenn is like that.

Maybe she is NOT.

 

[teacherbees]

My dad is 88 and, while his body has deteriorated, his mind is sharp as a tack. He knows the difference between four minutes and four hours and four days. In fact, he even knows the difference between one hour and four hours.

His brothers and sisters who are still living are the same way. Lots of older people in my church are the same way. (And yes, I have weekly contact with these older folks because I play the piano for a choir they sing in.)

 

[Pinkhammer]

My dad is 88 and, while his body has deteriorated, his mind is sharp as a tack. He knows the difference between four minutes and four hours and four days. In fact, he even knows the difference between one hour and four hours.

His brothers and sisters who are still living are the same way. Lots of older people in my church are the same way. (And yes, I have weekly contact with these older folks because I play the piano for a choir they sing in.)

Thanks for sticking up for the majority of older folks who are mentally keen, quite intelligent, and very active nowadays, thanks to modern medicine.

 

[Texana]

I don't see how Mrs. Fenn could be living on her own in a foreign country if she was mentally incompetent.

 

[Pinkhammer]

Exactly!

 

[armywife210]

Elderly people are hillarious! I used to work in a nursing home when I was in college. There was one old lady that used to pull her shirt off daily, run down the hall (as fast as she could atleast) shaking and shimmiing... There were two other women who got into a fight every evening at dinner ... talking about they were going to take it outside... one had a walker, and the other a wheel chair. They must have had a couple of hundred years between the two of them. Still others would surprise me with their grasp for details. It's like they didn't miss a beat. That's how my grandmother is. She is in her 90's. She raised 13 kids during the depression. The only money they had was what my grandfather made as a barber. She has to be the most attentive, brilliant woman I know. You just never know.

 

[CaliKid]

I saw Mrs. Fenn on a video, and she looked sharp to me.