TX - 21 arrests in gang rapes of 11yo girl, Cleveland, 2010

[JeannaT]

How did the juveniles got demolished? As far as I can tell they didn't even get prison time.

This is now, and will forever be, on their records. They will never be able to hold a respectable job or even volunteer with youth. They won't be able to grow up and be soccer coaches, basketball coaches, Watchdog dads at their kid's schools.

That's demolished, in my opinion. It's also likely they won't be able to get through a very long probation - 7 years is a LONG time - without some other brush with a cop for underage drinking, that sort of thing, and then their probation can be revoked. And they can go to prison.

This is an awful, awful story, but I don't think it was obvious to the very youngest of these perps that what they were doing was actually illegal. The lawyer in the last trial admonished the jury to not pay much attention to the fact that the victim was laughing and encouraging them in most of the video - she still, in fact, did not have legal standing to give consent. They weren't acting in her "best interests" at the time, according to the lawyer.

I'm just terribly torn on this, where the juveniles with no prior criminal record are concerned. How many knew her age? (I don't know, is why I'm asking). I know ignorance of her age is no legal excuse, but it makes a difference to me. A girl who's laughing and encouraging them might not look like the crime it turned out to be, to the youngest of the perps.

This is much more complicated - in my opinion - than a case of a girl who's captured and it's obvious to all participants that what's taking place is a crime. I don't think it was obvious to many, at the time.

Vulgar and unholy, yes. But I'm not sure all knew they were participating in a crime.

 

[jjenny]

Are you really suggesting we should be worried about the ones that might not be able to follow the terms of their probation? They all agreed to this deal. They know what they can and can not do while on probation. If somebody isn't able to follow the term of their probation and actually ends up in prison, he will only have himself to blame.

 

[JeannaT]

I'm not suggesting how anyone should feel, or whether anyone else should care, jjenny. I'm saying I'M concerned about the ones who may not be able to follow the terms of their probation.

I don't know what the terms are, but typically there's no drinking, no travel out of state without explicit permission, etc. That means these young men will reach well in to their twenties without being able to have a beer on a Saturday night. How many, realistically, will be able to hold to that? Not many, is my guess.

Some cases are black and white, with the convicted perp being a true menace to society - and the older perps in this case I'm convinced are menaces. Some of them were able to get away scot free for this, and they are the ones who are to blame.

Yes, I am concerned about the pipeline to prison for so many black young men. And yes, that's worrisome to me. I'm not sure these young men (I don't know anything about them, except several were successful students and athletes) wouldn't have been able to make very positive contributions to their communities. Now, that's gone.

I'm not asking anyone else to care, I'm just stating that I do.

 

[jjenny]

Again, they all agreed to these deals. They know what the terms of their probation are.

 

[iamnotagolem]

They raped an 11 y/o. As far as I'm concerned they are all lucky to have been spared their life. Who cares if they can never be soccer coaches, basketball coaches, watchdogs...etc???

I never understand feeling sorry for a rapist. Let him come live in your hometown, be your child's coach. Wrong is wrong is wrong is wrong.

I still do not get why we don't have the death penalty for rapists and pedophiles. Slap them on the wrist with 7 years of probation? Ridiculous.

 

[tlcya]

for what its worth JeannaT, I understand, I think. Just as in any crime in which one minor harms another, I feel somewhat torn to varying degrees, depending on the facts of each case. It is harder for me to feel the enmity towards a minor I would feel towards an adult who perpetrated the same crime. But I must remind myself that the victim is the "real" victim and no one else.

 

[JeannaT]

And now she's pregnant.

I would have thought she would have been on some kind of birth control after returning home from foster care.

http://www.khou.com/news/cnn/Teenag...-victim-talks-about-pregnancy--208430841.html

 

[jjenny]

Why did they return this girl to her mother? I never felt mother had the ability to supervise her propertly, even at age 11.
This is not a surprising outcome to me at all.

 

[JeannaT]

Well, her mother raised to exceptional daughters who were a couple years older than this one. And in fact, those daughters were EXTREMELY upset at having to uprooted because of the difficulty with the youngest daughter. The older sisters had made great lives for themselves in leadership positions within their high school careers and were sad to have to leave their successes to go into hiding to protect this youngest girl after all this difficulty that was created.

So, it's not the mother. And it's not her inability to supervise.

Sometimes, a child is a wild herring that no one imagines will be so incredibly difficult to supervise and raise.

 

[jjenny]

I haven't seen anything like that reported about the older sisters. All I've seen reported is that 11 year old was hanging around with older males. Which I don't think most parents would allow their 11 year old to do.

 

[believe09]

Sometimes, a child is a wild herring that no one imagines will be so incredibly difficult to supervise and raise.

Yup. And sometimes an 11 year old is gang raped and is so wounded that she makes life choices that arent the best for her.

I am mystified as to how this became news (who tipped the news organization) and why in the world her mother would give an interview regarding it. This child has been through enough. I am disgusted fwiw.

 

[JeannaT]

Yup. And sometimes an 11 year old is gang raped and is so wounded that she makes life choices that arent the best for her.

I am mystified as to how this became news (who tipped the news organization) and why in the world her mother would give an interview regarding it. This child has been through enough. I am disgusted fwiw.

According to KHOU Houston, she sent them this picture they published and she offered the story to them. Obviously they could have refused the story and counseled her against the wisdom of further attracting public attention to herself. Seems there are few adults willing to step up and advise her, throughout her life.

She is the victim of a perfect storm - a family stretched VERY thin (if I recall correctly the dad was debilitated by a back injury, and the mom was working around the clock to try to scratch out a living). The two older daughters were student leaders and very socially well-adapted and I think they were thrown off guard by this girl who was very much into attention seeking behaviors. Match that with the fact that she is very pretty, and along came a group of men who were willing to pass her around among themselves, and she was too young to realize she was being used. Only that one stranger saw what was happening to her - a young girl, way, way out of her league but unwilling still to distance herself from these men she thought were her "boyfriends". Usually girls who are so extremely desperate for adoration and attention can be redirected into theater or dance, but she didn't have those outlets. No one was there in a position to stop this runaway train of events.

So fast forward a couple years, she's pregnant and putting herself on the news. If I were her mother, I'd probably say the same things. Her mother must be absolutely exhausted. At this point, I certainly would have had her on the pill or the patch.

 

[JeannaT]

I haven't seen anything like that reported about the older sisters. All I've seen reported is that 11 year old was hanging around with older males. Which I don't think most parents would allow their 11 year old to do.

The two sisters were in High School, and tried to shoo the men away when they asked about her. The sisters would say the men were continually surprised at how young she was, and the sisters were shocked they didn't know - they apparently couldn't tell. One of them was in ROTC, the other was a student leader in some other capacity. I believe they were junior and senior in high school, and when this came to a head the family had to move to Houston and both of them were angry about that. And no, I agree, most parents wouldn't have allowed an 11 year old to hang out (even going to Houston from Cleveland on a lark) with older males, but I don't think they were in a position to know. This hasn't been said but it's possible they're undocumented workers and living kind of on the edge.

 

[jjenny]

I haven't seen anything like that published about older systers so where are you getting this from? I am questioning as to why this girl was returned to her mother from the foster care.

 

[JeannaT]

I haven't seen anything like that published about older systers so where are you getting this from? I am questioning as to why this girl was returned to her mother from the foster care.

I'm not quite sure what part you haven't heard, specifically, about the older sisters. I'm sure the articles are somewhere in this thread, which is very long and tedious to read through.

I went to the first page, and here they mention the two older sisters who were in advanced placement high school classes and had to uproot and move because of the rape and aftermath. I'm sure if you read through you can find the other stuff - there was a long article (maybe in the Chronicle) where the siblings were interviewed. One sister said it was eerie or weird, seeing her own house on the TV news, with a fast food cup that was hers on the window sill.

http://www.chron.com/news/houston-t...nts-still-reeling-after-gang-rape-1691603.php

 

[JeannaT]

jjenny, here's the article I was referring to about the sisters. It's from this thread, probably around page 10.

http://www.gq.com/news-politics/big...ng-rape-11-year-old-girl-story?printable=true

 

[tlcya]

I have no comment about the young lady's pregnancy. I will not be reading teh article. It is IMO simply a forseeable aftereffect of the original rapes and ensuing public backlash against this girl. MOO

As believe stated above, many child victims of sexual molestation, coercion or assault go on to make poor choices and be promiscuous.

 

[TracyLynnS]

On a different subject in this case, the following article stated that during the trial (of one of the accused who didn't plead guilty and opted for a jury trial) in which she testified against one of the rapists: "...she began to cry when prosecutors began playing a graphic video tape of her having anal sex during one of the alleged attacks. She identified McGowen in the film laughing in the background, telling the attacker to 'beat that ho.'"

The prosecutor had informed the jurors ahead of time that he would be presenting videotaped evidence, which I would expect. But can they really do this to a child on the witness stand, testifying in front of the jurors, her rapist, and everyone in the courtroom who's observing the proceedings?

She was a child when she was assaulted and was still a child when she had to testify. I thought they showed this kind of graphic evidence to the jury outside the presence of the victim, and didn't make the victim watch while everyone was viewing the videotape of her being brutally raped.

IMO, it's victimizing the victim all over again, and this kind of thing would definitely be a deterrent to a sexual assault victim reporting the crime. What victim would be willing to relive the rape on video tape in front of jurors, lawyers, the attackers, etc.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ulted-20-men-11-7-months-pregnant-age-14.html

 

[believe09]

I have no comment about the young lady's pregnancy. I will not be reading teh article. It is IMO simply a forseeable aftereffect of the original rapes and ensuing public backlash against this girl. MOO

As believe stated above, many child victims of sexual molestation, coercion or assault go on to make poor choices and be promiscuous.

Dear friend, I wonder how many of them have pond scum ratings chasing media willing to victimize them all over again and a "mother" who will dignify that effort by giving an interview.

This "parent" has abdicated responsibility for this child and it is completely clear that this is the case. Nothing like being allowed to raise yourself after your world as you know it has been blown to smithereens and you have no one who is able to show you how to put that world back together again.

 

[jjenny]

jjenny, here's the article I was referring to about the sisters. It's from this thread, probably around page 10.

http://www.gq.com/news-politics/big...ng-rape-11-year-old-girl-story?printable=true

11 year old was described as being in advanced placement classes as well. I am not sure what that is supposed to prove. It certainly doesn't prove she was well supervised by her parents. Although it doesn't sound that she was doing any better in that group home than she did at her hone, since she run away. I presume that's why they put her back with her mother.