TX - 26 dead, 20 injured in church shooting, Sutherland Springs, 5 Nov 2017 #1

[Pamela_Brewer]

"At least eight of the people killed were members of one family, according to a relative and a community leader. A woman who was about five months pregnant and three of her children were killed. The pregnant woman's brother-in-law and his young child were also killed, according to the community leader."
[video=cnn;us/2017/11/05/texas-church-shooting-sutherland-springs-zw-orig.cnn]http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/06/us/texas-church-shooting/index.html[/video]

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[kittythehare]

This guy had it all
dv, animal abuse..
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...rid_collaborative_1_na&utm_term=.0085b8586599

In August of the same year, he was charged with a misdemeanor count of mistreatment, neglect or cruelty to animals in El Paso County, Colo., where he lived at one point, records show. The case was eventually dismissed, although the details and circumstances surrounding the charge weren’t immediately clear.

Neighbors told local media that Kelley lived in a barn in back of the 3,700-square-foot home with his current wife and 2-year-old son. They said the family had lived there for more than a decade.

Other neighbors told KENS 5 that they would sometimes see couches, bicycles, lawn mowers and other household items along the street in front of the property, placed there as if they were free for the taking.

. The Los Angeles Times reported that in recent months Kelley had started adding strangers from the Sutherland Springs area as Facebook friends and picking fights with them.

 

[kittythehare]

https://www.texastribune.org/2017/11/06/brief-nov-6/

 

[kittythehare]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5053013/Devin-Kelley-outcast-preached-atheism.html

Kelley volunteered as a teacher for Bible studies at Kingsville First Baptist Church, according to his LinkedIn which shows him posing which a young child.
He was married to Danielle Shields, and they appear to have a child together. She was previously a teacher at the First Baptist Church.


Bryan Holcombe had been standing in for Frank Pomeroy when Kelley opened fire. Witnesses say he was the first victim to be struck by the shooter's gunfire.
'Bryan was filling in,' the witness, who did not want to be named, told DailyMail.com. 'He was walking up to the pulpit when he was shot in the back.'

Many of the dead remained inside the small rural church Sunday evening, as crime scene investigators worked to reconstruct the scene.

Martin confirmed that police had found Kelley dead, saying that: 'We are not sure if it was self inflicted or if he was shot by a local resident.'

 

[U2forever]

It does confuse me every time where the media carries on if the gun was obtained legally.

Like people who are getting ready to commit 27 acts of murder are going to think hum it againist the law, I certainly don't want to be break any laws here...

Why do they care if the gun was got legally - it is totally irrelevant IMO>

WHo cares?

And or lets pretend congress pretends to do something - there are so many out there

The real question ought to be what is happening in our nation that results in people wanting to decimate others?

Xocotzin is illegal

So is heroin

so is ..............

Golf clap, CARIIS. :goodpost:

 

[kittythehare]

https://www.thecut.com/2016/07/mass-killers-terrorism-domestic-violence.html
Article discusses link between DV and mass shootings

 

[Deleted member 158085]

It's possible he was just target practicing for the event. The area that he lived in appears to be rural with a lot of wooded land.

This is a handy link to find current and previous addresses complete with google maps. Enter his name and New Braunfels, TX.

https://www.familytreenow.com

I live out in the country, but if I heard a bunch of automatic gunfire coming from my neighbor's house, I would call just to be sure they were OK. It sounds like people noticed it but did not check it out.

Not checking on our neighbors because it's none of our business is how we get here. That's how people end up dead for weeks with no one noticing. I wish we could go back to the time when checking on neighbors' well-being was not nosy, but neighborly.

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[CARIIS]

He did shoot himself per MSNBC

and the charge was = to a felony in civilian life

3 of the 5 most deadly mass shootings in the last year

anyone know how to get a court martial version of an indictment or whatever so we can read the actual charges of the events a couple of years ago?

 

[Stunned]

After a tragedy like this people are allowed to have feelings, and they might be complicated and not everyone will feel the same, but it's understandable people would be ashamed of this kind of behavior. No one is proud of it, I hope.

Sadly agree!

 

[ab01]

According to the sheriff per CNN . The in laws of the shooter attend the church, but were not at church yesterday. Moo


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[Deleted member 158085]

It's becoming very clear this has little to do with the church and more to do with his wife and family.
I'm guessing that the church was the easiest way to get the entire family in one place.

It appears his family is also close by (except one sister on the west coast) and their profiles haven't disappeared yet either...
However, the one Uncle that posted condemning the shooter didn't mention him killing any relatives.

I don't know why it matters... either way a bunch of innocent people are dead.
Maybe it's just that these are the only people I can try and confirm are okay....
But that doesn't change the numbers. Maybe it's time for a drink.

It's possible that he linked the church with his wife leaving him if she got support from them. In a small church, and/or small community, it's much more likely that people were actively involved in helping her get away from him and counseling her to stay away from him.

And if he did change from Christianity to atheism, this may have been a factor. I could see that in itself causing tension between the couple, and I can envision the church praying about him coming back to God. This could have angered him even more.

So while it is likely that the family issues are at the heart of this, he may have wanted to hurt the church and its members as well for "meddling."

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[CARIIS]

[h=1]Punitive Articles of the UCMJ[/h][h=2]Article 128—Assault[/h]

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By Rod Powers
Updated November 10, 2016

Text.
“(a) Any person subject to this chapter who attempts or offers with unlawful force or violence to do bodily harm to another person, whether or not the attempt or offer is consummated, is guilty of assault and shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.
(b) Any person subject to this chapter who—

• (1) commits an assault with a dangerous weapon or other means or force likely to produce death or grievous bodily harm; or

(2) commits an assault and intentionally inflicts grievous bodily harm with or without a weapon; is guilty of aggravated assault and shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.”

Elements.
(1) Simple assault.

• (a) That the accused attempted or offered to do bodily harm to a certain person; and

(b) That the attempt or offer was done with unlawful force or violence.

(2) Assault consummated by a battery.

• (a) That the accused did bodily harm to a certain person; and

(b) That the bodily harm was done with unlawful force or violence.

(3) Assaults permitting increased punishment based on status of victim.

• (a) Assault upon a commissioned, warrant, noncommissioned, or petty officer.

(b) Assault upon a sentinel or lookout in the execution of duty, or upon a person in the execution of law enforcement duties.
(c) Assault consummated by a battery upon a child under 16 years.

• • (i) That the accused attempted to do, offered to do, or did bodily harm to a certain person;
  (ii) That the attempt, offer, or bodily harm was done with unlawful force or violence;
  (iii) That the person was a commissioned, warrant, noncommissioned, or petty officer; and
  (iv) That the accused then knew that the person was a commissioned, warrant, noncommissioned, or petty officer.
  
  • (i) That the accused attempted to do, offered to do, or did bodily harm to a certain person;
  (ii) That the attempt, offer, or bodily harm was done with unlawful force or violence;
  (iii) That the person was a sentinel or look-out in the execution of duty or was a person who then had and was in the execution of security police, military police, shore patrol, master at arms, or other military or civilian law enforcement duties; and
  (iv) That the accused then knew that the person was a sentinel or lookout in the execution of duty or was a person who then had and was in the execution of security police, military police, shore patrol, master at arms, or other military or civilian law enforcement duties.
  
  • (i) That the accused did bodily harm to a certain person;
  (ii) That the bodily harm was done with unlawful force or violence; and
  (iii) That the person was then a child under the age of 16 years.
  

(4) Aggravated assault.

• (a) Assault with a dangerous weapon or other means of force likely to produce death or grievous bodily harm.

(b) Assault in which grievous bodily harm is intentionally inflicted.

• • (i) That the accused attempted to do, offered to do, or did bodily harm to a certain person;
  (ii) That the accused did so with a certain weapon, means, or force;
  (iii) That the attempt, offer, or bodily harm was done with unlawful force or violence; and
  (iv) That the weapon, means, or force was used in a manner likely to produce death or grievous bodily harm.
  (Note: When a loaded firearm was used, add the following element)
  (v) That the weapon was a loaded firearm.
  
  • (i) That the accused assaulted a certain person;
  (ii) That grievous bodily harm was thereby inflicted upon such person;
  (iii) That the grievous bodily harm was done with unlawful force or violence; and
  (iv) That the accused, at the time, had the specific intent to inflict grievous bodily harm. (Note: When a loaded firearm was used, add the following element)
  (v) That the injury was inflicted with a loaded firearm.
  

Explanation.
(1) Simple assault.

• (a) Definition of assault. An “assault” is an attempt or offer with unlawful force or violence to do bodily harm to another, whether or not the attempt or offer is consummated. It must be done without legal justification or excuse and without the lawful consent of the person affected. “Bodily harm” means any offensive touching of another, however slight.

(b) Difference between “attempt” and “offer” type assaults.

• (ii) Offer type assault. An “offer” type assault is an unlawful demonstration of violence, either by an intentional or by a culpably negligent act or omission, which creates in the mind of another a reasonable apprehension of receiving immediate bodily harm. Specific intent to inflict bodily harm is not required.
  
  • (i) Attempt type assault. An “attempt” type assault requires a specific intent to inflict bodily harm, and an overt act—that is, an act that amounts to more than mere preparation and apparently tends to effect the intended bodily harm. An attempt type assault may be committed even though the victim had no knowledge of the incident at the time.

(iii) Examples.

• (A) If Doe swings a fist at Roe’s head intending to hit Roe but misses, Doe has committed an attempt type assault, whether or not Roe is aware of the attempt.

(B) If Doe swings a fist in the direct of Roe’s head either intentionally or as a result of culpable negligence, and Roe sees the blow coming and is thereby put in apprehension of being struck, Doe has committed an offer type assault whether or not Doe intended to hit Roe.
(C) If Doe swings at Roe’s head, intending to hit it, and Roe sees the blow coming and is thereby put in apprehension of being struck, Doe has committed both on offer and an attempt type assault.
(D) If Doe swings at Roe’s head simply to frighten Roe, not intending to hit Roe, and Roe does not see the blow and is not placed in fear, then no assault of any type has been committed.

(c) Situations not amounting to assault.

• (i) Mere preparation. Preparation not amounting to an overt act, such as picking up a stone without any attempt or offer to throw it, does not constitute an assault.

more

https://www.thebalance.com/punitive-articles-of-the-ucmj-3356842

 

[Inthedetails]

He did shoot himself per MSNBC

and the charge was = to a felony in civilian life

3 of the 5 most deadly mass shootings in the last year

anyone know how to get a court martial version of an indictment or whatever so we can read the actual charges of the events a couple of years ago?

I recall the neighbors who chased the killer in the car said the killer's car went out of control - I was wondering at the time if the killer shot himself while driving and was dead by the time the car stopped. Or maybe he was fumbling with his gun to get it ready to shoot himself in the moments before the car crashed. I have NO idea if that is true, but it seems like it could be a possibility.

The neighbors really are heroes, imo. It's possible Kelley had plans to hit another location.

jmo

 

[CARIIS]

served

logistics readiness at Holloman Air Force Base in New Mexico, starting in 2010.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/05/us/devin-kelly-texas-church-shooting-suspect/index.html

 

[Deleted member 158085]

The man that was accused of killing his family was actually a man who lost his entire family, Chris Ward. Heavy.com ran the story, its a few posts down

Pitiful. We've got to stop this race to report names before confirmation. The same thing happened in Charlottesville, where keyboard warriors identified some poor innocent kid who got harassed.

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[Inthedetails]

According to the sheriff per CNN . The in laws of the shooter attend the church, but were not at church yesterday. Moo


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OMG. My heart goes out to them as they are vulnerable for survivors' guilt, in addition to suffering from the shock at what happened to their church family.

jmo

 

[Elley Mae]

Federal law prohibits a person who has been dishonorably discharged from buying a firearm. Whether Kelley's discharge would trigger the law was not immediately clear.

http://www.latimes.com/politics/was...s-shooter-was-court-1509937194-htmlstory.html

 

[Inthedetails]

Pitiful. We've got to stop this race to report names before confirmation. The same thing happened in Charlottesville, where keyboard warriors identified some poor innocent kid who got harassed.

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Yes, this victim's name was the first that popped up on twitter as the perp. I looked him up....and, I know you can't "tell" from photos who a criminal is, but I didn't think the named person seemed like someone who would do this. A bit later the real perp was named, and he does have "the look."

(And don't chastise me....I know we can't tell just by looking at someone what they are really like. I'm just sharing first impressions, as well as dismay that not only an innocent person but a victim was incorrectly named.)

jmopinion

 

[Deleted member 158085]

It is awkward not being American when these things happen. I am so uncomfortable with gun discussions.
moo

It's awkward being an American when these things happen, too.

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[Deleted member 158085]

"At least eight of the people killed were members of one family, according to a relative and a community leader. A woman who was about five months pregnant and three of her children were killed. The pregnant woman's brother-in-law and his young child were also killed, according to the community leader."
[video=cnn;us/2017/11/05/texas-church-shooting-sutherland-springs-zw-orig.cnn]http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/06/us/texas-church-shooting/index.html[/video]

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Oh my God. I just can't imagine losing 8 family members at once, even if it was 8 cousins and no siblings. It would still have an unbelievable impact.

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