TX - 26 dead, 20 injured in church shooting, Sutherland Springs, 5 Nov 2017 #2

[rsd1200]

Do we know this for a fact? All I've seen is a friend said he said it in school, but it's possible I missed an update.

I'm not 100%, no. I read it on the thread somewhere, iirc. I will admit, I'm having a hard time with this one, and not following as close, and could be mistaken on that.

 

[kittythehare]

I'm not 100%, no. I read it on the thread somewhere, iirc. I will admit, I'm having a hard time with this one, and not following as close, and could be mistaken on that.

Was that the piece where his schoolmates said he was complaining that his parents were drugging him?

 

[rsd1200]

The same is true in my home state of SC, as well. Even if he'd been denied the purchase of those guns, I doubt it would have stopped him. He would have just found another way to get his hands on them (or others like them) by whatever means he deemed necessary. But, what concerns me is the fact that he didn't buy them at a gun show or from a private seller. He bought them from a gun store because the system we currently have in place failed. It doesn't matter if the failure was due to human error or negligence on behalf of the military, there should be safeguards in place to check and catch these failures. Every person who has slipped through the cracks is a potential ticking time bomb. Our lives are too precious to rely on a system that was created to protect us but only works some of the time.

I understand where you are coming from, and agree, but, until folks are ready to admit that we need something else for gun-show and private sales loopholes, it just won't help that much. If I sold one to a private person, I feel that I should have to go to the courthouse, just like I do when I sell a car, and do an i.d check w/the buyer, and sign it over. The gun show loophole should be closed too. That's just my take on it. I don't want a firearm out there floating around, that I sold to Joe Blow, who I know nothing about (nor do I want his). Not to start a gun debate, but, it's just too easy to buy a firearm if anyone has a bad i.d. Even if everything had been in place, he'd have gotten the guns, or a gun, and a some of that stuff that goes "BOOM".

 

[human]

The trouble is that it violates the right to privacy and the right to due process and the Hippa laws. Everyone has rights, and that includes the mentally ill.

Is the US the only country with mentally ill who kill many people?

 

[rsd1200]

TY!

I will never forget an individual, who suffered from schizophrenia, had cleared a bit after being on meds for a bit described it to me like this.

He said it is like being between two radio stations, when both are going, but neither one is clear and there is static as well .

Don't know why but from the moment I heard he started shooting as he approached the building that represented religion with fever that switched me up.

That is symbolic. Rage at an entity based on early wounding. Then several days later when I saw the drone wide shot of the yellow bullet markers outside the church it gave me chills.

It was spraying. It was not even trying to hit anything. It was totally out of control. Frenzied. Visually I saw the texas chainsaw massacre guy when he is rearing up and back wailing the chainsaw around with wild abandon.

I am interested in the threatening text - verbatim - it context. It is like divorce court or very delusional?

He is dead. I do not understand why there has not been more revelations about the conflicts .

This is morbid - kinda - but the cell phone stuff also blew my mind. Solved. I think! They should have taken the phone to his fingers (if that is part of it) for his fingerprint.

Everyone is hacking everyones passwords. It is hard to grasp that if it is like a regular password that cant be overcome. But if it is one of those fingerprint deals it seems like that would have solved it

At the same time - for some reason I don't really think his phone is going to add much.

What basic sense we have from SM seems like it would be basically the same kind of themes.

It might I suppose give us insight into the severity and frequency of delusions if they were in fact present or exacerbating in recent weeks.

While at the same time, IMO, there is much data, in terms of serious delusional patterns going on for some time to have come to the conclusion (and do it) that one needs weapons on a navy base. That is some bizarre thinking patterns.

Only mo - that also has profound notions of paranoia - to believe that he needs guns to protect himself from military commanders.

All this is omo - but it stirred up notions of command hallucinations - being told to get them on base.

On a final note - sorta - two kinds of voices. Those that are inside ones mind - and those that are external - kinda like being "told" .

Don't recall the order, but malingering is easier to determine ( like for folks trying to feign psychotic stuff) if they present more internal or external voices but don't remember the order!!

I am certainly no implying he was not the real deal .

His med history might be very telling as well.

I suspect he was out in the barn because they were mortified of him - in childhood would not be surprised if he was pulling knives or stuff on family members.

And then they are in really rural area. That would influence IMO notions about mental illness - but am thrown off by dads vocation. Education typically can be helpful in terms of family response to a loved one being sick.

I found this : Lets take two identical children (for our purposes). One in working class rural environment, another in an affluent educated family system.

Thanksgiving, In each event same behavior - child flips over the table.

Making generalizations but there are dynamics that ring true at least in my exp.

In both family settings LE is called.

In the lower social economic setting arrest is wanted.

In the other family system (again generalizations but validity) when LE arrived family members insist that loved one be transported to a mental facility - not locked up.

The messages tho - for the ill child - are wildly different...............................

enough babbling I tell myself !

I'd not call the law for a table flipping though (they're harder to flip than it looks like in the movies...lol A bit of levity.). However, I understand that you mean the rural, less wealthy, family, would call, and send the child with LE, but, after LE got there, the wealthier, family would beg off, after it all cooled down?

So, the rich kid sees no consequences but the less well off child thinks, well, I get sent to jail for flipping a table. A kid with a personality disorder, I don't think, would benefit from either situation. What's your thought? IANA doctor, just a parent.

 

[kittythehare]

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-t...70b2&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter

Re i-phone..

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-t...70b2&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter

Re i-phone..

Does anyone remember where our government agencies (FBI) worked with Israeli agencies to unlock Apple I-Phones if an investigation is needed from a killer’s phone?

Maybe I was just dreaming this?

Anyone?

 

[rsd1200]

Does anyone remember where our government agencies (FBI) worked with Israeli agencies to unlock Apple I-Phones if an investigation is needed from a killer’s phone?

Maybe I was just dreaming this?

Anyone?

Is this it?

https://www.wired.com/2016/03/fbi-now-says-may-crack-iphone-without-apples-help/

 

[cujenn81]

The same is true in my home state of SC, as well. Even if he'd been denied the purchase of those guns, I doubt it would have stopped him. He would have just found another way to get his hands on them (or others like them) by whatever means he deemed necessary. But, what concerns me is the fact that he didn't buy them at a gun show or from a private seller. He bought them from a gun store because the system we currently have in place failed. It doesn't matter if the failure was due to human error or negligence on behalf of the military, there should be safeguards in place to check and catch these failures. Every person who has slipped through the cracks is a potential ticking time bomb. Our lives are too precious to rely on a system that was created to protect us but only works some of the time.

Jumping off my own post here and veering slightly off-topic, I thought I'd share a bit of good news about a situation when the system did work.

A man walked into one of our locally owned gun stores recently and tried to buy a gun. But, when the background results came in within minutes, it not only indicated he was unauthorized to purchase the gun, but that he also had an outstanding arrest warrant for armed robbery. The cops were alerted that the subject of an active warrant was trying to buy a gun, and they had the building surrounded before the guy even realized his mistake. (His elevator clearly doesn't go all the way to the top.)

 

[cujenn81]

I understand where you are coming from, and agree, but, until folks are ready to admit that we need something else for gun-show and private sales loopholes, it just won't help that much. If I sold one to a private person, I feel that I should have to go to the courthouse, just like I do when I sell a car, and do an i.d check w/the buyer, and sign it over. The gun show loophole should be closed too. That's just my take on it. I don't want a firearm out there floating around, that I sold to Joe Blow, who I know nothing about (nor do I want his). Not to start a gun debate, but, it's just too easy to buy a firearm if anyone has a bad i.d. Even if everything had been in place, he'd have gotten the guns, or a gun, and a some of that stuff that goes "BOOM".

Agreed! I'm with you on that.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Oh, man. I just had a bad thought. I wonder if he did do anything to try and force him out? That might explain the trolling the community people (wonder if they were church members), the Atheist group followings, and it's his mil's church. Put it all together and I just had a horrible thought.

It would appear that any group, individual, or agency that needed to distance themselves or put up boundaries/rules against him were going to suffer.

The pastor and the officers in the Airforce were concerned & rightfully so.

The killers anger would’ve raged out on anyone that objected to his intolerable or deviant behavior.

I hope his parents & family talk to investigators in detail to gain a better understanding. What did they see and what did they do? What systems failed and what worked? We need to learn more & find better solutions.

 

[Sillybilly]

Mods are Amazon wish lists allowed? There are few Devin Kelley wishlists that have items that would suggest a fascination with knives, tactical equipment, skulls ; in fact several full face masks listed that would fall under the description that this was wearing.
Lists from 2013 showing items like these.
Definitely not your normal looking wishlists.

The list could be linked ONLY if you are sure it is the shooter in this case. IOW, how can you know 100% it is the shooter DK and not, for example, the actor of the same name?

 

[kittythehare]

The list could be linked ONLY if you are sure it is the shooter in this case. IOW, how can you know 100% it is the shooter DK and not, for example, the actor of the same name?

pLEASE PLEASE PLEASE can we look at it?
(have a feeling)

 

[Pamela_Brewer]

Why is there a need to unlock an i phone? If he threatened people via text, they have it on their end...
Social media can be investigated as well. As to anything else he was involved in- I don't know, I really can't believe with the intelligence and hackers today that law enforcement can't find someone to "crack a code".
Smart phones do way more than anyone realizes.
I was at WalMart today and my forward facing camera light was on. I could not turn it off.
I guess I need to put on my tinfoil hat before I say that "Intel" be it legal or otherwise is way ahead of the pack.
If the info is worth it to an investigation, it will be found/turned over.
Moo

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[kittythehare]

Why is there a need to unlock an i phone? If he threatened people via text, they have it on their end...
Social media can be investigated as well. As to anything else he was involved in- I don't know, I really can't believe with the intelligence and hackers today that law enforcement can't find someone to "crack a code".
Smart phones do way more than anyone realizes.
I was at WalMart today and my forward facing camera light was on. I could not turn it off.
I guess I need to put on my tinfoil hat before I say that "Intel" be it legal or otherwise is way ahead of the pack.
If the info is worth it to an investigation, it will be found/turned over.
Moo

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

See post #546. explains

 

[neesaki]

I'm following, but at a distance, this one has really got to me, but this comment:

“...he was hollow, I could never reach him.”

This reminds me of what Dr Sam Loomis said about Michael Myers in Halloween.

 

[Deleted member 117884]

I'd not call the law for a table flipping though (they're harder to flip than it looks like in the movies...lol A bit of levity.). However, I understand that you mean the rural, less wealthy, family, would call, and send the child with LE, but, after LE got there, the wealthier, family would beg off, after it all cooled down?

So, the rich kid sees no consequences but the less well off child thinks, well, I get sent to jail for flipping a table. A kid with a personality disorder, I don't think, would benefit from either situation. What's your thought? IANA doctor, just a parent.

I agree that two families at different ends of the socio-economic scale would have different reactions from LE about an incident in the home.

But, to bring up once again a mom I am acquainted with who has a troubled son. The parents are very well educated - at the top end of that scale. In terms of affluence, they are comfortably well off, though not wealthy. They have the advantage of being well-connected in the community and are well respected. THEY SUFFER so much because they cannot find the right help for their son. When he is violent, they call the cops. Eventually he went away for school, and while that provided some relief for the family, it didn't do much for the son.

I have no solutions. I don't know what to do, but I do know we leave families on their own and then blame them for not doing enough. Really, what are they supposed to do other than keep calling the police and then eventually kicking the kid out?

jmo

 

[Deleted member 117884]

"Texas church shooter's father breaks his silence"

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...her-breaks-silence-grieving-article-1.3621096

 

[Deleted member 158085]

"Texas church shooter's father breaks his silence"

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...her-breaks-silence-grieving-article-1.3621096

From this article -
A former friend needed a place to stay stay, and he offered her a place in return for weekly sexual favors.

This guy seems to have been abnormal in every way.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

 

[MistyWaters]

I agree that two families at different ends of the socio-economic scale would have different reactions from LE about an incident in the home.

But, to bring up once again I am acquainted with who has a troubled son. The parents are very well educated - at the top end of that scale. In terms of affluence, they are comfortably well off, though not wealthy. They have the advantage of being well-connected in the community and are well respected. THEY SUFFER so much because they cannot find the right help for their son. When he is violent, they call the cops. Eventually he went away for school, and while that provided some relief for the family, it didn't do much for the son.

I have no solutions. I don't know what to do, but I do know we leave families on their own and then blame them for not doing enough. Really, what are they supposed to do other than keep calling the police and then eventually kicking the kid out?

jmo

Yes to that.

Just an added thought, it's seems as if it's easy for the public to assume that DKs entire life story has already been laid out by the media because lots of information is already known. The court of public opinion has mostly ruled that everyone ought to have known he was a ticking time bomb but nobody noticed.

His parents, his siblings (if he had any), his wife and her family, others who might have been close to him have yet to share their struggles and whatever that might be, I'm sure they had no way of predicting the outcome. It's possible he was under the care of a psychiatrist, which in always not successful. It's possible he was diagnosed with a mental illness but was not taking his medication. It's possible that between 2014 and now, he was voluntarily committed for mental health treatment for a period of time. We just don't know.

Until the families have buried the victims, it's disrespectful for LE or those close to DK to place the focus on him. Those closest to DK are going through their own kind of emotional grieving and filling in the blanks to the media's portrayal of DK or satisfying the publics curiosity is without a doubt the last thing on their minds right now.