TX - 26 dead, 20 injured in church shooting, Sutherland Springs, 5 Nov 2017 #2

[Stunned]

I think honestly its a mistake to nationalise this crime.. gun laws are not great, I know that.

BUT, lets not deny that there is a massive upsurge in mindless violence worldwide.
Not all countries have guns readily available.
But they have chainsaws, hammers hatchets, iron bars.. all manner of murder weapons..

The real issue to be explored is the DESIRE TO KILL.

Have humans become so totally disempowered that the only action they feel capable of taking is an act of utter destruction?

Apportioning blame on a nationality, a weapon, a law is not only futile..history proves that.. it also avoids the core issue..

Change will occur when people receive correct education from a very very early age.
Education on coping with their own personal torment..
This is missing from every school curriculum in the world..
People do not know how to cope.. they have no clue.. supports are there but they dont know how to go looking for them.
Nobody wants an insanity diagnosis because societies frown upon it..

In every small town in every country in the world, there exist a handful of people, spurned by their communities because they dont fit in..
Psychiatry is a shambles.
Its up to us as individuals to show a little more kindness to those who clearly need it but never receive it.

Even if everybody who reads this makes a decision to be a little kinder , to search out the forgotten ones, to give , change would be effected..
We're not children. Looking to government or LE to save us from ourselves is both juvenile and futile.

WE are the ones that lost the plot.
We were in that condition when we elected our governments, so they are less than useful and potentially dangerous.
The arc has swung too far to the right.. to the cold place where man's humanity to man is received with little more than a yawn..

This is what finally allowed me to cry.

 

[CARIIS]

Yep. That is also how he was a permitted Security Guard. The AF dropped the ball on this one. He was convicted under a General Court Martial and should have gotten a Dishonorable. I said yesterday I thought it was interesting that I couldn't find his record and that the Air Force was going to want to distance themselves if possible especially if they could have taken further measures to prevent something else from happening.


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yep

they let him in

then he is doing bizaire stuff

then they did nothing

then oh my god

he cracked his kids brain out

we better do the lighter thing to avoid why did we not get rid of him and get him help


and here we are

sad

moo

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

A day after a gunman massacred parishioners in a small Texas church, the Air Force admitted on Monday that it had failed to enter the man’s domestic violence court-martial into a federal database that could have blocked him from buying the rifle he used to kill 26 people.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/11/06/us/texas-shooting-church.html?_r=0&referer=


ETA. Sorry, I see this was already posted upthread.

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[Inthedetails]

I'm not getting the "denial" claims. Who is in denial here? We all are upset about the crime and acknowledge we have a problem. I haven't seen anything on the board that remotely looks like denial, even if we disagree on the cause or solutions.

Oh well....guess I'm in denial about seeing denial.

jmo

 

[BuTuCroquet?]

He wouldn’t have done near as much damage armed with a pair of nunchucks. Even a hammer or a hatchet or a tire iron or a chainsaw wouldn’t have done a fraction of the damage caused here. Or in Vegas.

The rest of it, I️ agree with. Wholly.

I think honestly its a mistake to nationalise this crime.. gun laws are not great, I know that.

BUT, lets not deny that there is a massive upsurge in mindless violence worldwide.
Not all countries have guns readily available.
But they have chainsaws, hammers hatchets, iron bars.. all manner of murder weapons..

The real issue to be explored is the DESIRE TO KILL.

Have humans become so totally disempowered that the only action they feel capable of taking is an act of utter destruction?

Apportioning blame on a nationality, a weapon, a law is not only futile..history proves that.. it also avoids the core issue..

Change will occur when people receive correct education from a very very early age.
Education on coping with their own personal torment..
This is missing from every school curriculum in the world..
People do not know how to cope.. they have no clue.. supports are there but they dont know how to go looking for them.
Nobody wants an insanity diagnosis because societies frown upon it..

In every small town in every country in the world, there exist a handful of people, spurned by their communities because they dont fit in..
Psychiatry is a shambles.
Its up to us as individuals to show a little more kindness to those who clearly need it but never receive it.

Even if everybody who reads this makes a decision to be a little kinder , to search out the forgotten ones, to give , change would be effected..
We're not children. Looking to government or LE to save us from ourselves is both juvenile and futile.

WE are the ones that lost the plot.
We were in that condition when we elected our governments, so they are less than useful and potentially dangerous.
The arc has swung too far to the right.. to the cold place where man's humanity to man is received with little more than a yawn..

[emoji202]MOO

 

[CARIIS]

This is already becoming a political 'Hot Potato', abctv news just had a long segment on this locally and apparently Air force
says they requested additional funds from Congress to have this info put into the national database and Congress
turned them down.

moo

nah

this is cya stuff

they have to explain how how he got in to whatever people do to get into the job


then imo it is come in that he had vey bizarie behavior stuff religious moo

then they did nothing

then one of there guys is cracking open there childs skull open and god knows what to his wife

we need to bury


we will get him away with least charges not to draw attn

and now ugh oh

he just shot up 50 some people

ugh oh

disgusting

but it is understandable in a crazy way

the guys typically moo in that mode like military dudes male cops etc don't really understand mental illness

the little macho stuff for lack of a better of a word minimize the gravity of the illness

 

[MaryG12]

First of all, my heart goes out to the victims and their families.


One thing I have heard elsewhere online is that the shooter, Devin Kelley, had anger management problems, and this may not be due to mental illness - mental illness being commonly used to describe situations like this.


In looking at his age - 26 years old - it sounds like he has never really been taught how to deal with rejection, being turned down, which led to this shooting.


What scares me is he is not the only one, was not the only one, average age of a mass shooter in the USA is 35; with many of them in the 20's range.


We never had this problem when I was a kid in the 1970's and I grew up with guns (well Daddy's police revolver which was always kept unloaded and locked away although he did show it to me as a little girl on several occasions).

 

[CARIIS]

Air Force admits bureaucratic error allowed Texas shooter to buy gun used in mass shooting

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/a...buy-gun-used-in-mass-shooting/article/2639807

their busted

lets see what else is revealed about his behaviors while in the little service or whatever that is called

moo we are gonna find other dudes were mortified

but no one did anything

that military stuff is a very top down hideous system

what some low grade person is gonna go say he is talking to his mattress about religion??

imo we will find out much

 

[CARIIS]

The abuse of the dog REALLY bothers me. God Bless the victim’s families. sicko.


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no details pls guys

ty

 

[MistyWaters]

A day after a gunman massacred parishioners in a small Texas church, the Air Force admitted on Monday that it had failed to enter the man’s domestic violence court-martial into a federal database that could have blocked him from buying the rifle he used to kill 26 people.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/11/06/us/texas-shooting-church.html?_r=0&referer=


ETA. Sorry, I see this was already posted upthread.

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".....that could have blocked him from buying the rifle he used to kill 26 people.......

So could've he bought another rifle just like it privately, if the seller wasn't aware of his past? I'm just curious because I'm getting the impression he'd have been prevented from buying any guns, whereas last thread there was discussion about private sales versus licenced dealer sales.

 

[CARIIS]

Administrative punishments do not include time. NJP is not the same as an administrative punishment. It is the mid-range between that and court martial. This guy was court martialed.

The man authorities have identified as the shooter in the massacre at a Texas church was given a bad conduct discharge from the Air Force three years ago after being court-martialed for assault, a military spokesperson confirmed Sunday.

Kelley was convicted and sentenced to 12 months in custody and given a bad conduct discharge, Stefanek said. He was discharged in 2014.

http://www.latimes.com/politics/washington/la-na-pol-essential-washington-updates-alleged-texas-shooter-was-court-1509937194-htmlstory.html

Likewise, his discharge status indicates court martial, not NJP or administrative discipline:

NJP is used by commanders to deal with misconduct issues that are too serious to be dealt with using administrative corrective procedures, but are minor enough to not necessarily be appropriately handled through a full court-martial prosecution.

While it is often neglected as area of concern by many attorneys, this is a mistake. NJP is one of the most powerful disciplinary tools used by commands to punish servicemembers for “crimes” while avoiding a formal court-martial proceeding.3 As such, the practical ramifications for servicemembers facing NJP can be serious.

http://nlgmltf.org/military-law/2014...ourts-martial/

Punitive Discharges. Punitive discharges are authorized punishments of courts-martial and can only be awarded as an approved court-martial sentence pursuant to a conviction for a violation of the UCMJ. There are two types of punitive discharges: Dishonorable Discharge (DD) -- which can only be adjudged by a general court-martial and is a separation under dishonorable conditions; and Bad-Conduct Discharge (BCD) -- which can be adjudged by either a general court-martial or a special court-martial and is a separation under conditions other than honorable.

Administrative Separations. Administrative separations cannot be awarded by a court-martial and are not punitive in nature. Enlisted personnel may be administratively separated with a characterization of service (characterized separation) or description of separation as warranted by the facts of the particular case.

https://www.thebalance.com/military-...rt-iii-4056918
This guy was not allowed to own a gun.

hi my dear

i hope you and yours are getting thro

none of these rules and laws matter

we are going to imo balls dropped all over

well see

i dont see how he could not end up involved
with military mental health folks who missed

 

[enelram]

Also another thing to consider, he was at an age where it's common to drown your anger in drugs and/or alcohol.
got a problem? take a pill, parents stop giving you money? go get drunk. School problems? Binge drink and pop
a couple other pills. No money? Heck for $ 5.00 you can get a heroin fix on the street.
I've seen it. even when young folks do work, friday night comes and they get wasted. And I do mean wasted.

true, he never learned to work through his anger or manage it, he never learned to cope with everyday problems.

Heck, just today, in 5 o'clock traffic a car hit a school bus head on. the first responders said injuries were not their
first treatment- they had to give Narcan to the car driver who had O.D.ed in 5 oclock traffic downtown.

don't know if they will ever get an accurate report on this young man's drug and alcohol habits, but it would be interesting to know how he handled the pressures of life besides using violence. Betcha drugs are involved.

 

[rabidstoat]

The Air Force is saying it didn't follow policy when it didn't alert the federal law agencies about this guy's record, but it sounds like there is also room for some confusion if everyone who's supposed to be following the procedure isn't clear on it. From what it sounds like, there are a few places that could cause confusion:

1. "Dishonorable discharge" versus "bad conduct discharge"
2. The fact that military law isn't the same system of felonies and misdemeanors and same terminology as other federal charges
3. The fact that someone sentenced in the Air Force actually serves time in a Navy prison could have led to confusion over who was supposed to do the reporting

 

[CARIIS]

From The Hill article I just posted:

"The Air Force has launched a review of how the service handled the criminal records of former Airman Devin P. Kelley following his 2012 domestic violence conviction," the Air Force said in a statement provided to the Times. "Federal law prohibited him from buying or possessing firearms after this conviction."



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This review is starting today after a
very mentally ill person split a childs skull

in 2012 ??

i do not know why i am not chunky but after learning about a child's skull

i am chocolating out

and you bet this is military govt stuff


in civilian life busting open a child's enclosure around his her brain is manslaughter

angry

chocolate bite now

 

[cujenn81]

My poor little heart is shattered over this senseless act of violence. I can't even begin to fathom the crushing grief that must be felt throughout the entire community right now.

My brother is the pastor of First Baptist Church in Eutawville, SC (a small, rural town with a population less than 400). He also has a 14-year-old daughter, and I can't even bring myself to consider what if that had been my brother's church, what if that had been my niece. This one really hit way too close to home for me.

So, I thought I'd share something my brother posted on Facebook today (with those of you who may be religious).

---

"People are declaring that faith and prayer are powerless because Christians were murdered yesterday.

People also declared that Jesus was a fraud because he died on the cross.

A little time brought a new perspective."

"Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait until the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of the heart. At that time each will receive their praise from God." -- 1 Corinthians 4:5

 

[sds71]

https://mobile.twitter.com/loisbeckett/status/927694081161154560/photo/1
sbeckett
New Air Force documents: Kelley pleaded guilty to hitting, kicking, and choking his wife, and allegedly threatened her with loaded firearms.

 

[sds71]

Replying to @loisbeckett
Air Force prosecutors made a deal with Kelley to withdraw several counts, including those involving guns, for a guilty plea on two of them.

 

[DatelineFan]

breaking a childs skull

we are talking about an out of control human being

i was surprised how quick she divorced him

that is a violent scary person psychotic at times

the speed of the divorce was telling to me

what did he do to her

Good for her! Breaking her kid's skull is MORE than reason to kick him to the curb. We see so many cases here, where a significant other ends up killing someone's kid. I'm glad she got out when she did. What a monster.

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[BuTuCroquet?]

I think in the case of the USA, white male mass shooters, average age 35, a lot of them in their 20's with a few exceptions like that Las Vegas nut, I would look at the root of the problem: the homes of these killers, parenting (yes I am one of those who believe it is a parenting issue; parents who never tell their child "No" to anything, who maybe elevate their offspring unnecessarily, make their child the center of the universe [see Nancy Lanza and her bizarre relationship with her son Adam] and are too permissive, trying to be a big buddy)

To top all that off, the average age of the parents of these shooters is my age group. Not grand.

... And the access to more guns than ever before in the history of our country. Two-thirds of gun deaths in this country are suicides. Absolutely chilling. That’s not bad parenting. Allow a suicidal/pathologically angry *adult* access to an AR-556. I humbly argue that’s not bad parenting, either. Moo


[emoji202]MOO

 

[thepinkdragon]

Replying to @loisbeckett
Air Force prosecutors made a deal with Kelley to withdraw several counts, including those involving guns, for a guilty plea on two of them.
View attachment 125982

This is infuriating. MOO


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