TX - 26 dead, 20 injured in church shooting, Sutherland Springs, 5 Nov 2017 #2

[CARIIS]

I wonder if any of these gun stores getting 50 requests a day for bump stocks have enough of a conscience to just say no, and not order them. I mean, it's been proven that they aren't very accurate, so they aren't for hunting or target practice...

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

We just heard about bump stocks. Americans have been mass murdering each for centuries.

Until our society can focus on the reasons (wealth inequality, Washington out of control, lack of authentic justice system et cetc) IMO this is just marching on

Americans like quick fixes -- what we think are fixes -- makes us think we might have some control

ok tomm those bump stocks are illigal now what

they get a car

we put metal detectors in front of churches

now what

they use bow and arrows

we ban bow and arrows

now what

they start poisoning people

we ban all poison

now what

at some core level we have lost a moral compass we see leaders being currupt as heck , cops breaking the law etc etc

its a moral fabric thing

notions about right and wrong etc etc

IMO one real step in the right direction would be term limits on congress -- then they might start meaningful reforms about basic stuff

moo

 

[CARIIS]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/massac...s-with-unspeakable-losses-1510020468?mod=e2tw
[FONT=&amp]“That church was about all we had in Sutherland Springs,” said a family member via text message. John Holcombe “just lost everyone in his family that was there with him—only one daughter survived,” the family member said. He “watched his parents get shot to death, too.”

[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Freeman Martin, a spokesman for the Texas Department of Public Safety, said Monday that all of the victims’ bodies had been removed from the church but that they couldn’t yet release their names.[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]He said law enforcement had removed hundreds of shell casings and 15 30-round clips from the church, all of them emptied.[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]Other victims included 30-yea


[/FONT]

Rachel

Authorities: over 400 were fired ............

 

[zencompass]

So our societal current “business model” or modus operandi regarding violence is not working. Currently we all have to wait until the mentally ill, deviant, sociopathic, or tormented, angry people perform an **action** before we can do anything and usually it is too late.

What I would like to see is a reporting agency whereby anonymous calls can go to a task force that encompasses counselors,investigators, documentary’s, etc and if you see something, you call it in. It’s all about prevention and would save the well-being of countless lives, children, spouses,& animals. This would have to be a new agency but one that could work collaboratively with police, social services, FBI, doctors, etc...

The process could be done & it would take years to get the “wrinkles” out of it. It would be worth it though.

We are at the breaking point in society so it is necessary, IMO.

Good morning ATasteOfHoney,

Your idea is brilliant and timely. We seriously need this.

This would work and I agree, it is crucial.

This task force you have come up with could also receive input from the public so we could all be a part of something to deal with this, preventatively.

It's almost like we are dealing with an infectious "plague" or something. It feels like something is out of control.

Your idea not only would prevent some violent atrocities but also gives the public power and the genuine feeling that "something is being done", because something is being done in a preventative way.

 

[CARIIS]

I absolutely agree with you.
he could have visited his local hardware store and purchased the requisites, without arousing suspicion.

now days in that rural setting he could have just waited till they came out and run em all over

a real start might be mental health education for the masses

FB Twitter etc could be a big help possibility

My sense is (from practicing as well )

is most really think it is not a real disease

 

[MzOpinion8d]

From the same link:

"“I thought it was the police when he went inside because everyone got real quiet,” Solis told KSAT. “Everyone was saying ‘Be quiet. It's him. It's him.’”"

Very telling.....

"It's him. It's him." Him who? Are they saying this dude was crazy enough they were all expecting him to show up and massacre the church members? Why the heck were they there if they thought that?

 

[CARIIS]

Air Force will review how shooter's criminal record was handled
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/new...iew-how-shooter-s-criminal-record-was-handled

"Air Force Secretary Heather Wilson and Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. David Goldfein directed a complete review of the Kelley case by the Air Force Office of the Inspector General. The Service will also conduct a comprehensive review of Air Force databases to ensure records in other cases have been reported correctly. The Air Force has also requested that the Department of Defense Inspector General review records and procedures across the Department of Defense."

They will probably do that . A committee will be formed . After the committee will report to a committee that review the committee's final report and submit the committee review of the committee which will be submitted to a committee

That committee will come up recommendations which will be sent to a committee for a committee review .

That committee will analyze the fiscal implications of the committee review of the committee review of the committee .

That committee will conclude that the corrections needed are too costly and another committee will be formed to review the committees report on the financial agnel and come up with cheaper solutions which will be sent to a committee for review

that committee will send there conclusions to congress for funding which will form a committee to study the committees committee report of the committee that went through a committee for the committee afet the committees committees

After that a committee will formed.........

The gov printing office will print 10,000 copies of each committee reports , will end up on the floor in the govt printing office warehouses that house the committee reports .

And So It Goes...............

 

[ab01]

"It's him. It's him." Him who? Are they saying this dude was crazy enough they were all expecting him to show up and massacre the church members? Why the heck were they there if they thought that?

I think context here is important. The gunman was firing from outside the church. He then proceeded to stop shooting. People were hiding under pews etc. gunman then makes his way into the church. People inside then say "it's him". Him meaning simply the man outside that was shooting and is now inside . Moo


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Poppyflower]

Yes, I have noticed a decrease in the lack of commitment to one's work in the past decade or so. It's seems "acceptable" to be a slack-off. I don't get it.

Off topic, I suppose....

jmopinion

I've noticed companies don't take care of their employees as well.

Maybe a chicken or the egg situation?

 

[kittythehare]

Good morning ATasteOfHoney,

Your idea is brilliant and timely. We seriously need this.

This would work and I agree, it is crucial.

This task force you have come up with could also receive input from the public so we could all be a part of something to deal with this, preventatively.

It's almost like we are dealing with an infectious "plague" or something. It feels like something is out of control.

Your idea not only would prevent some violent atrocities but also gives the public power and the genuine feeling that "something is being done", because something is being done in a preventative way.

Its a great idea but its highly unlikely it would be done in a way that respect's a person's dignity, rights and autonomy..
It could as easily be done by kindly folks, because they actually care about what happens to the damaged human as opposed to protecting others from them.

 

[CARIIS]

CNN

he was shot three times

look how much we know about this and NY while we know nothing about LV

there are reasons for this moo

[h=1][/h]

 

[CARIIS]

originally charged with assault and battery against his wife, aggravated assault against his stepson, and four charges involving firearms, including two charges of pointing a loaded firearm at his wife and two charges of pointing an unloaded firearm.

The injuries fractured the young boy's skull and caused internal bleeding

[FONT=&quot]half of the 20 wounded victims were in critical condition.

[/FONT]

Kelley was supposed to show up at his security guard job at the Summit Vacation Resort in New Braunfels on Sunday,

worked at the family resort for five weeks, she said, describing him as quiet. "He wasn't chatty with people but he was polite."

Kelley was registered as a noncommissioned security officer,

order to complete the registration, Kelley would have submitted fingerprints and fees.

seasonal unarmed night security guard before he was terminated

irst Baptist Church of Kingsville, two hours south of Sutherland Springs

posting a lot about "non-God beliefs, atheism, a lot of gun violence and a lot of weapons that he was into,

[FONT=&quot]former flame [/FONT]Katy Landry[FONT=&quot] told NBC News in a Facebook message. "He would tell me very sick strange things." [/FONT]

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/06/us/devin-kelley-texas-church-shooting-suspect/index.html

Delusions and psychosis are strange things ....moo

 

[Inthedetails]

I think context here is important. The gunman was firing from outside the church. He then proceeded to stop shooting. People were hiding under pews etc. gunman then makes his way into the church. People inside then say "it's him". Him meaning simply the man outside that was shooting and is now inside . Moo


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes, that makes sense.

However, I think DK had been in the church before (or at least watched the videos of church services online):

"Ramirez recalled Kelley went first for the audio and video crew that recorded the church’s sermon and uploaded them online."

Quote from the same link.

jmo

 

[Jax49]

Couple who survived Texas massacre recalls moments after Devin Kelley entered the church
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...ments-gunman-entered-church-article-1.3616562

"He targeted the crying children."

How can one individual be so evil? I haven't stopped crying since I read this...

 

[Jax49]

Yes, that makes sense.

However, I think DK had been in the church before (or at least watched the videos of church services online):

"Ramirez recalled Kelley went first for the audio and video crew that recorded the church’s sermon and uploaded them online."

Quote from the same link.

jmo

I can't find the link, but I do remember reading/hearing that LE watched the video and it was very short. That makes sense if he killed them first.

Anyone else remember?

 

[Cryptic]

However, I think DK had been in the church before (or at least watched the videos of church services online):

He apparently had drifted in on occasion in the past. These “drift ins” included serving as a volunteer for one day of a VBS or Sunday school type activity.

 

[margarita25]

Couple who survived Texas massacre recalls moments after Devin Kelley entered the church
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...ments-gunman-entered-church-article-1.3616562

"He targeted the crying children."

:stormingmad: targeting crying children! :furious: no words

 

[dianaelaine59]

Can the victim's families "sue" the Air Force?

"Can I sue the VA, Army, Navy, or Air Force?
Yes, the VA, Army, Navy, or Air Force can be sued in certain circumstances. If you or a family member are the victim of medical negligence or suffered serious personal injuries as a result of the negligence of a federal employee, you may be able to bring a claim against a federal agency, like the Department of Veterans Affairs, the Department of the Army, the Department of the Navy, or the Department of the Air Force. If the negligent health care provider in your case committed malpractice at a domestic military base or a VA hospital, the case may be governed by the Federal Tort Claims Act (FTCA). The FTCA is a federal law that allows plaintiffs injured by the negligent acts of federal employees to file claims against the United States for damages."

https://nationaltriallaw.com/can-sue-va-army-navy-air-force/



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[MistyWaters]

"A former U.S. serviceman who shot 26 worshipers to death during Sunday prayers in Texas was embroiled in a domestic dispute with his in-laws and had sent threatening text messages to his wife’s mother before the massacre, officials said Monday."
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...h-massacre-by-former-u-s-airman-idUSKBN1D510F

******
LE is suggesting the motive was domestic although they haven't said what is the direct connection with the church and DK, other than that's where the family worshipped. I'm getting the impression, might be wrong, that his uncontrollable rage was toward his wife and her family and when he couldn't locate any of them, he unleashed his fury on the church in a horrific yet indirect way, similar to a child seeking inappropriate attention.

As LE hasn't released further information, we don't know how long the couple had been separated, why or how. Had LE been called to intervene throughout his current relationship at any time in the past? I don't think we know that either but it seemed volatile highly considering the conclusion of his first marriage.

My hypothetical question - if LE had been called by anyone reporting DHs irrational behaviour, harassment, threats etc, would've his prior domestic violence conviction appeared on his record, or only the fact that he was Involuntarily Discharged ?

 

[dianaelaine59]

Does anybody know if this is significant?

Martin also released more specifics about Kelley's outfit. He was dressed in all-black tactical gear, a ballistic vest and wore a black mask with a white skull on it during the shooting.

Its just the last paragraph I'm referring to..
The black mask with the white skull.
Is that a uniform of some description?

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local/crime/article/Church-shooter-sent-mother-in-law-threatening-12335271.php



Martin also released more specifics about Kelley's outfit. He was dressed in all-black tactical gear, a ballistic vest and wore a black mask with a white skull on it during the shooting.

The skull is a universal symbol for “danger.” You find it on poisons and on signs intended to warn you of impending danger all over the world regardless of language.

Masks have always been powerful objects in many cultures, ones that often allow the wearer to get in touch with their darker, chaotic side. Skull face painting is a chance to overcome fear of death and act recklessly.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[dianaelaine59]

Texas church shooter Devin Patrick Kelley served in Air Force, was court-martialed for assaulting wife, child
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/11/06/texas-church-shooting-who-is-gunman-devin-patrick-kelley.html

Somethings jumped out.

A former middle school classmate told Fox News that Kelley would complain about his parents and medications during school.

“His parents had him on high doses of ‘psych’ meds from 6th to 9th grade, the time I knew him,” said the student, who only wished to be identified as Reid.

“He recently added me on [Facebook]. I accepted hence we went to school together, and any time I saw him on my timeline he was sharing stuff about guns and being atheist,” she said. “He was pretty negative. The last post I remember was of a rifle.”

I am not surprised that Devin Kelley is a constant complainer. They are very negative. A too familiar thing we see in mass killers, terrorists, and bullies.

Websleuth Radio Interview Tina Meier
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/websleuths/2013/09/30/tricias-true-crime-radio-adult-cyber-bullying

It starts at the 20:40 mark. Tina Meier's description of Lori Drew is very similar to Devin Kelley, Stephen Paddock, Sayfullo Saipov, Omar Mateen, Eric Harris, Andrew Kehoe, Elliot Rodger, Adam Lanza, Seung-Hui Cho, and Osama bin Laden.

Chatter amongst other students on Facebook who say they knew Kelley suggested he had a volatile relationship with his parents.

One student said Kelley used to tell her about issues with his dad, while another said they watched Kelley verbally abuse his parents.

Kelley was also a member of his high school’s football team, Reid said. One student said Kelley’s father would go “crazy” if Kelley messed up on the field.

There appears to be some issue with the father. We should hear more about his childhood. I know many mass killers, terrorists, and bullies have very poor relationship with parents and siblings.

And his father is who he called when he knew he was going to die.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk