GUILTY TX - Alanna Gallagher, 6, Saginaw, 1 July 2013 - #3

[BeginnersLuck]

Bringing over post #2 in this thread as a reminder about being victim friendly.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased TX - Alanna Gallagher, 6, Saginaw, 01 July 2013 - #3

 

[Rougelatete]

Someone may have already mentioned this, so apologies if it is redundant.

I think I remember reading or discussing somewhere (my best guess is either in a criminal psych textbook or else on here in relation to Mickey Shunick?) that when a predator has a powerful, active inner fantasy world or life, he will plan out the crime to imitate that fantasy which he has, in his mind, rehearsed many times in excruciating and vivid detail, often including how he identifies/selects, pursues, and acquires his prey. But the fantasy often ends when the act is over. That means, unless it is a person who includes staging, cat-and-mouse games, etc., considerably less planning goes into the "clean-up."

I apologize if I have offended anyone by referring to prey and clean-up. I'm also sorry I can't come up with a source for this general memory I tried to paraphrase for yas...if it is from a criminal psych or profiling textbook, I don't own those, I only borrowed them and read them "for fun" while I was doing a project on a different campus. :/

ETA: my info was in support of the quoted post. But maybe rougelatete (sorry if I've misspelled your name- autocorrect repeatedly corrected me to "rouge later" and now I forget the right spelling) or PensFan could correct me as needed?

Bringing this over from the previous thread -- OP was PlainJaneDoe. I thought what you said made perfect sense and I've heard of perps rehearsing the fantasy in smaller doses, like practicing parts of it on initial victims before taking it to the full hilt. For instance, practicing a part of their sexual sadism on either a willing partner or unwilling victim and later committing a murder with the same sexual sadism present.

BTW, I've always regretted choosing this as my screen name -- it was my nick name as a child "Rouge la tete," meaning "red head" in French. I never realized in signing up for WS how much people would refer to it, lol!

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

Bringing this over from the previous thread -- OP was PlainJaneDoe. I thought what you said made perfect sense and I've heard of perps rehearsing the fantasy in smaller doses, like practicing parts of it on initial victims before taking it to the full hilt. For instance, practicing a part of their sexual sadism on either a willing partner or unwilling victim and later committing a murder with the same sexual sadism present.

BTW, I've always regretted choosing this as my screen name -- it was my nick name as a child "Rouge la tete," meaning "red head" in French. I never realized in signing up for WS how much people would refer to it, lol!

Thank you for the history and meaning of your WS "name"...

it sounds lyrical... But I didn't know what it meant (could have googled it though..:blushing

:seeya:

 

[epiphany]

My thoughts exactly. That story really stuck out for me, she sounded very cautions and perhaps that caution is why her parents felt safe letting her wander. They may have known the houses she would go to and were familiar with the people in those homes, but she knew not to go into anyone elses home.

Also, at least one neighbor commented upon how Alanna appeared more intelligent than others her age, referring to her as always asking questions. One called her a "spitfire."

Appears that neighborhood adults had engaged in conversations with her.

 

[gia2]

There were 2883 children (under 18) murdered in 1993. There were 1187 children (under 18) killed in 2011.

This is page has a lot of information about crimes against children, but the last year it has statistics for is '97:

http://www.unh.edu/ccrc/factsheet.html

Thanks for posting this, that is some scary information.

Off topic but a quote from that page:

"Thousands of other short-term abductions occur to children mostly in the course of sexual assaults and other crimes."
"Approximately 101,000 cases of child sexual abuse were substantiated in 1998."

 

[kkdj]

I don't know. But may be an offender in immediate neighborhood who was as yet unknown to local LE (and neighbors), or who has never been identified as being an offender.

I suspect this may be the case. Also, unless the offender is a teen or young adult offending for their first time, an older person would more than likely have more victims of some sort of abuse. I suspect there was sexual abuse in this case and I suspect was the primary reason for taking her. Child molesters usually have several victims but of course there is always the first.
anyway, if there was sexual abuse and it is from an adult there might be other kids in the neighborhood that have also been abused by this same person. Of course, im thinking the perp lives nearby.
jmo

 

[human]

Many parents teach their young children about stranger danger.

However, not many teach their young children about the dangers from adults known to the child: adult neighbors, family relatives, adult family friends, the child's friends' family members, teachers, clergy, etc.

Rather, many young children are taught to obey these adults without question.

The anecdote about Alanna in the tree and her neighbor coming to her assistance (a definite stranger to Alanna) illustrates that Alanna was familiar with stranger danger...guessing not so much of the dangers with adults she was familiar with.

MOO: perp is someone in immediate neighborhood whom she trusted and had some familiarity with.

The problem with children is that they do not have the brain development to make proper choices. There is a study somewhere that was done. The parents were able to watch.

100% said that their child would not go with the stranger. 100% of the children went with the stranger.

Pervs have a Phd in being pervs. For instance, we do not know how Austin Sigg got Jessica, but he did. And he sure wasn't a seasoned master. They know what they want and how to get it.

Even adults have poor decision making skills. They would not be victims sometimes if they did not succumb. For instance, with Ted Bundy. I could name more current ones, but I won't.

When I was growing up, people smoked in stores and elevators. There was concrete under swing sets.

No helmets were worn during hockey. (How many of my contemporaries have died in their 40's because of that!)

I would not want to go back to those days.

People can decide what they want in terms of child raising. To say kids turned out all right is not true. How many have issues as adults because of the way they were raised?

When I was growing up, we never heard of child sex abuse. Now I wonder what really was the story with the girls labelled as "".

A helicopter parent to me is one who does their child's homework. Not one who sets reasonable expectations and limits on what a child is allowed to do.

 

[carbuff]

We had certainly heard of child sexual abuse in the 60's. We just had different terms. "Don't go too close to old man Benson's house. He's a dirty old man."

 

[jjenny]

Just to add to your "what we do know" reminder....I believe that the report was that the family NEVER actually called 911. It was stated that numerous police cars were scouting the neighborhood after the body was found, and that eventually, the father flagged one LE car down as it passed and told them he was looking for this child.


jmo

Found this.
"Her body was found at about 7:30 p.m. Her parents reported her missing at about 9 p.m., and neighbors say her father told them she was last seen at about 5 p.m. "
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/52388347/...-k-reward-alanna-gallagher-case/#.Udoy16zYGXc

 

[1southernmama]

I've been reading this since day one, but have missed some things I'm sure. A couple thoughts:
The truck - as mentioned earlier, those paint splash decals are easy to remove, so that may or may not matter about the truck. Most kids DO know truck vs suv, etc. and LOT of trucks in our area remove the tailgate, but they are usually work vehicles if they are left off. That said, I once loaded potting soil on my truck, got in a hurry & forgot to close the tailgate. I drove 12 miles on winding roads & down our long bumpy drive way & nothing moved, BUT those bags are flat, heavy, etc. Something with a different shape, lighter would certainly have fallen out.
The perp & timing - it may be someone who's house she has been to so often that no one would be worried to see her going inside - or - maybe when the street she was on cleared (kids going inside for supper) there was simply no one to see which house or truck she entered. The kids will give better info than the parents if they aren't afraid to talk. Maybe LE is playing dumb on the "no cause for alarm" to get the perp to stay on top of the water.
Not knowing is awful. I just keep asking myself 'how many more of these will people tolerate?' I have a 15yo that I will not apologize for hovering over. He is now a confident young man who looks out for those littler than he is. You can't terrify them, but you'd better be realistic.

 

[jjenny]

I suspect this may be the case. Also, unless the offender is a teen or young adult offending for their first time, an older person would more than likely have more victims of some sort of abuse. I suspect there was sexual abuse in this case and I suspect was the primary reason for taking her. Child molesters usually have several victims but of course there is always the first.
anyway, if there was sexual abuse and it is from an adult there might be other kids in the neighborhood that have also been abused by this same person. Of course, im thinking the perp lives nearby.
jmo

The body was dropped by someone driving, so presumably that someone is higher than a driving age. Older than 16? Also not necessarily even a man. There have been some female offenders recently.

 

[Flutterby80]

I don't think anyone is denying that children need guidence and are not able to understand/process things the same way as adults. I don't think anyone is denying you should keep an eye on your child either. I just don't think this is the time or place for that discussion, because I keep reading that victim families do find these threads (they show up in Google searches, I found WS while searching for new info on Tesslynn O'Cull's killer).

I believe we owe Alanna's parents empathy unless and until they are charged with a crime relating to her death. If that ever happens, then all bets are off.
Try to imagine your child was murdered and a couple of months later you do an internet search pertaining to the accused killer...and you find pages and pages of posts implicating your negligence in her death. This, I am sure, after you have beat yourself up for it anyway. True or not, how horribly painful must that be?

I understand why WS has the rules in place that it does. I break them myself sometimes, but I have been trying to do better about following them and understand why we need them.

 

[carbuff]

I don't think anyone is denying that children need guidence and are not able to understand/process things the same way as adults. I don't think anyone is denying you should keep an eye on your child either. I just don't think this is the time or place for that discussion, because I keep reading that victim families do find these threads (they show up in Google searches, I found WS while searching for new info on Tesslynn O'Cull's killer).

I believe we owe Alanna's parents empathy unless and until they are charged with a crime relating to her death. If that ever happens, then all bets are off.
Try to imagine your child was murdered and a couple of months later you do an internet search pertaining to the accused killer...and you find pages and pages of posts implicating your negligence in her death. This, I am sure, after you have beat yourself up for it anyway. True or not, how horribly painful must that be?

I understand why WS has the rules in place that it does. I break them myself sometimes, but I have been trying to do better about following them and understand why we need them.

Yes, exactly. Very well put.

It's just not relevant any more. It has nothing to do with finding her killer.

And we're also drawing these conclusions from insufficient evidence -- a few random and partly contradictory comments in the media, made by people of unknown reliability. For all we know, some of the negative information might come from the perp him/herself.

 

[manzana]

A year ago I went to Barton Springs, my then 3 year old, not able to speak but clearly let me know his desire to jump off the diving board into 12 feet of water.

Well he did not let up so I asked one of the lifeguards on the other side if he could, I was told yes and it was my call if I felt comfortable with him doing so.

We walked around to the other side, absolutely no fear in the little one, when we got to the diving board he just walked the plank and jumped in. I was down at the side and swam out and guided him in. I got yelled at by the lifeguard, they had a changing of the guards since we were on the other side, thankfully he was still close by and I told the other guard that we had been ok'ed.

I am new to the term Helicopter parent but I guess I am one of them.

 

[human]

We had certainly heard of child sexual abuse in the 60's. We just had different terms. "Don't go too close to old man Benson's house. He's a dirty old man."

Did you know that you had children that you knew that were victims of sex abuse, probably by a parent or relative?

I never heard of it. Sure, creepy old man, but never the true story of family sex abuse

 

[manzana]

A year ago I went to Barton Springs, my then 3 year old, not able to speak but clearly let me know his desire to jump off the diving board into 12 feet of water.

Well he did not let up so I asked one of the lifeguards on the other side if he could, I was told yes and it was my call if I felt comfortable with him doing so.

We walked around to the other side, absolutely no fear in the little one, when we got to the diving board he just walked the plank and jumped in. I was down at the side and swam out and guided him in. I got yelled at by the lifeguard, they had a changing of the guards since we were on the other side, thankfully he was still close by and I told the other guard that we had been ok'ed.

 

[pferrin]

The problem with children is that they do not have the brain development to make proper choices. There is a study somewhere that was done. The parents were able to watch.

100% said that their child would not go with the stranger. 100% of the children went with the stranger.

Pervs have a Phd in being pervs. For instance, we do not know how Austin Sigg got Jessica, but he did. And he sure wasn't a seasoned master. They know what they want and how to get it.

Even adults have poor decision making skills. They would not be victims sometimes if they did not succumb. For instance, with Ted Bundy. I could name more current ones, but I won't.

When I was growing up, people smoked in stores and elevators. There was concrete under swing sets.

No helmets were worn during hockey. (How many of my contemporaries have died in their 40's because of that!)

I would not want to go back to those days.

People can decide what they want in terms of child raising. To say kids turned out all right is not true. How many have issues as adults because of the way they were raised?

When I was growing up, we never heard of child sex abuse. Now I wonder what really was the story with the girls labelled as "".

A helicopter parent to me is one who does their child's homework. Not one who sets reasonable expectations and limits on what a child is allowed to do.

Sorry I thought helicopter parent was just a very protective parent...I should have looked up definition before using the term. Thanks for heads up on meaning of the term.

 

[carbuff]

Did you know that you had children that you knew that were victims of sex abuse, probably by a parent or relative?

I never heard of it. Sure, creepy old man, but never the true story of family sex abuse

I had the misfortune to grow up in a fully functioning family, so my knowledge is secondhand, but yes, I did know of situations like that. One friend whose father would rape her when he came home drunk, another with a situation with a stepbrother.

It's true there was a general belief that it just had to be endured, whereas now something can be done, but it certainly wasn't that we didn't know it was happening.

I imagine each family is different, though. I found out 25 years later that the girl being raped by her stepfather thought it was a deep dark secret rather than common knowledge in the neighborhood. If even one of us had said something...but when you're 12, what do you say and who do you say it to?

 

[jjenny]

Sorry I thought helicopter parent was just a very protective parent...I should have looked up definition before using the term. Thanks for heads up on meaning of the term.

Helicopter parent is an overprotective parent. However, I am pretty sure that supervising a six year old as she plays outside is not being a helicopter parent.

 

[human]

Sorry I thought helicopter parent was just a very protective parent...I should have looked up definition before using the term. Thanks for heads up on meaning of the term.

I do not know the meaning of helicopter parent, but just what my friends and I refer to as a helicopter parent.

And it sure is not one who sets limits and watches the child. Watching and running a child's life are two different things.

Are you a helicopter parent because you put child latches on your cabinets, put medications where a child cannot reach them, turn pan handles so a child cannot grab them off of a hot stove?

As far as pervs go, pervs live everywhere. They do not fly in from outer space. They are someone's neighbor. They are often trusted people. Where I live, in the last two weeks, 2 coaches were busted as pervs, both having been coaches for awhile and of course, going through background checks.

Then we have this week the police officer who was taking cell phone pics of some girl in the shower. And of course, a few months ago the police officer who was sexually assaulting women while on the job.

The vast majority of people are good. And you have to live with a positive attitude, but geez. There sure are a lot of different kind of nuts out there