GUILTY TX - Alanna Gallagher, 6, Saginaw, 1 July 2013 - #5

[Pensfan]

I'm going to make a leap and tell you the FBI does not put up billboards if they know what happened. Billboards don't go up just b/c they are free. Not with the Feds involved.

Don't know about COD or tox yet, and nothing being released means there may be larger things at play that the FBI is looking at. Take it from there...

The FBI knows that defense attorney frequently try to prove that "some other dude did it" and "the police are incompetent". By allowing companies to donate billboards to bring in tips, the DA can prove that EVERYTHING possible was done to find suspects. This destroys the "some other dude did it" defense and the "police didn't look for other dudes" defense.

Where's Gitanna? I'm sure there must be some professional name for those defenses. lol

 

[Pensfan]

Would someone please share what they know about the Lowe's receipt. I can't find much after googling it. tia

 

[GingerzMomma]

???

Strangling and suffocating due to plastic bag are not one and the same...Nor diagnosed as such by the ME.......???

If you read document Penfan linked you'll see there are several different ways to be deprived of oxygen. If I'm the defense attorney I think there's HUGE difference between them all. If I'm the ME I should anticipate that.

I'm sure it's likely in the report. Anyone?

 

[21merc7]

The FBI knows that defense attorney frequently try to prove that "some other dude did it" and "the police are incompetent". By allowing companies to donate billboards to bring in tips, the DA can prove that EVERYTHING possible was done to find suspects. This destroys the "some other dude did it" defense and the "police didn't find the right dude" defense.

Um, to some degree. The FBI will make sure all bases are covered and they are sure, even to the point of manipulating.

However, the billboards suggest nothing is known at this time, and blocking off the streets again today.

If there was enough to say it was a family member (reminder this is WS and we can't go there, they are victims) the Feds would have already arrested them. So far, there is not enough. Since there is an FBI HQ of sorts there, (I did not verify this just read it), they would already have suspects in sight and rely on the 800 # and forensics, forensics include phones and other daily items, even black boxes in cars, not just body and evidence.

IMO and all that.

But I know what you are saying.

 

[cypress]

Assuming there was no evidence of sexual assault, here's a theory with lots of holes... I'm just thinking aloud.

What if the child died from suffocation (accidental) and not-so-intelligent caregiver panics because he/she was neglectful (maybe engaged in illegal or nefarious activity at the time child died). Caregiver calls very intelligent friend who cleverly "conceals" everything (using tape, bags, etc). While attempting to dispose of the body... driving two different vehicles... body "somehow" falls out??

I thought about this type of scenario, but I have difficulty believing this was an accidental death. Normal person discovers Alanna in their pool/hot tub/yard, and their normal, non-pervy mind immediately thinks to stage this as an abduction/sexual assault/murder?

Also, if Alanna wandered into someone's yard and was fatally injured or fell into someone's pool and drowned, then the person isn't even at fault. I just can't fathom that they would panic to the extent that they would stage something this grotesque and risk being caught with her dead body in their vehicle, close to their house, in this condition (certainly indicating murder/sexual assault).

 

[ArianeEmory]

Assuming there was no evidence of sexual assault, here's a theory with lots of holes... I'm just thinking aloud.

What if the child died from suffocation (accidental) and not-so-intelligent caregiver panics because he/she was neglectful (maybe engaged in illegal or nefarious activity at the time child died). Caregiver calls very intelligent friend who cleverly "conceals" everything (using tape, bags, etc). While attempting to dispose of the body... driving two different vehicles... body "somehow" falls out??

About half the time I lean towards accidental/panic. The problem is, when I bring up what seems like the likeliest accident (based on water and pool chemicals being seized), drowning, someone invariably brings up Casey Anthony and the thread instantly derails. This case has elements that are "similar" to a lot of different kinds of cases, but I think we can see that none of it really fits quite right. I do think "out of box" thinking is required.

 

[21merc7]

I thought about this type of scenario, but I have difficulty believing this was an accidental death. Normal person discovers Alanna in their pool/hot tub/yard, and their normal, non-pervy mind immediately thinks to stage this as an abduction/sexual assault/murder?

Also, if Alanna wandered into someone's yard and was fatally injured or fell into someone's pool and drowned, then the person isn't even at fault. I just can't fathom that they would panic to the extent that they would stage something this grotesque and risk being caught with her dead body in their vehicle, close to their house, in this condition (certainly indicating murder/sexual assault).

Ah, you have added another brilliant thought!

What if an accident happened at the neighbors house?!

Happened when I was a kid, just next door. 10 paces not real footage on a yard stick. An accident with just broken bones.

Couldn't understand the adults freaking out as a child, understood later about legal consequences. It was the '70's but suing still happened, just not in this case. No one ever went to or talked to the neighbors crammed up against this house again. Tense times.

 

[ArianeEmory]

Another note on possible drowning, since we seem to have some new members: it's been stated here that Alanna was known not to be able to swim.

Yes, I do think wrapping the body so elaborately would be very weird. I know lots of people are still very, very mad about CA. But the fact that COD wasn't strangulation (isn't that typical COD for predator child murders?) has me thinking about drowning again. Again, the water samples and wet bathing suit.

I also wondered last week if it could be financially motivated: would a homeowner with a pool be worried about financial liability for a drowning on their property?

 

[Mitsana]

OK... I'm going to throw this out as part of the panic scenario possibilities. As several of us have speculated, maybe the COD is drowning. It's awfully coincidental that Alanna had a near drowning incident just before returning from camp. IF this was a panic scenario, and not a homicide at all, I wonder if it's possible that this was actually a "delayed drowning":

"Delayed drowning usually occurs following a near drowning event. The individual may recover and expel some of the water from the lungs, but a small amount of water remains in the lungs. This prevents proper oxygen exchange in the lungs and leads to oxygen deprivation in the brain and other organs. This may result in death up to 24 hours after the submersion."

http://www.parentingstartshere.com/...ayed-drowning-facts-drowning-prevention-tips/

 

[21merc7]

Respectfully, I've been here since the first day of the first thread, and the two times I've dared to make drowning comments, people have INSTANTLY come back with dark mutterings about CA. I wasn't speaking theoretically. I was just hoping for an actual discussion of the possibility without it being twisted so fast.

Ignore the posts you don't like. It is that easy. Don't comment and feed them. Most people do comparisons. No choice, but if you don't feed it, it stops at some point. :hug:

 

[Magdalyn]

About half the time I lean towards accidental/panic. The problem is, when I bring up what seems like the likeliest accident (based on water and pool chemicals being seized), drowning, someone invariably brings up Casey Anthony and the thread instantly derails. This case has elements that are "similar" to a lot of different kinds of cases, but I think we can see that none of it really fits quite right. I do think "out of box" thinking is required.

The duct tape/plastic bags, thrown out like garbage (or possibly attempted to throw out) brings to mind Jorelys Rivera for me. Her murderer likely tossed her in the back of his golf cart (he work as a maintenance man for an apartment complex) with other garbage, and tossed her in the complex dumpster even as police were on the property looking for a missing child.

Makes me wonder if this could be someone who has a flatbed style work truck or similar where they toss debris (yard maintenance work or remodeling, etc), and he meant to take her somewhere else to dump and she rolled off.

I'm not married to any theory though. I could easily see her being dropped out a sliding minivan side door.

Also, wasn't one of the first items on one of the evidence collection lists some type of smiley note paper?

Made me wonder briefly if her body was found with any kind of note.

ETA: Just checked, item one from home is "Smiley face memo". Whatever that is...

 

[21merc7]

OK... I'm going to throw this out as part of the panic scenario possibilities. As several of us have speculated, maybe the COD is drowning. It's awfully coincidental that Alanna had a near drowning incident just before returning from camp. IF this was a panic scenario, and not a homicide at all, I wonder if it's possible that this was actually a "delayed drowning":

"Delayed drowning usually occurs following a near drowning event. The individual may recover and expel some of the water from the lungs, but a small amount of water remains in the lungs. This prevents proper oxygen exchange in the lungs and leads to oxygen deprivation in the brain and other organs. This may result in death up to 24 hours after the submersion."

http://www.parentingstartshere.com/...ayed-drowning-facts-drowning-prevention-tips/

I never heard of this! This is scary, is it rare or common?!

 

[Mitsana]

I never heard of this! This is scary, is it rare or common?!

More from the same article. I remember a case of it happening. Heartbreaking; everyone was so happy about the rescue, but the child died out of the blue later on.

"While delayed drowning is not common, it is important to understand that any submersion in water that may have resulted in the inhalation of water into the lungs is a potential emergency. This is not a condition that can be treated at home. The individual should be transported to the emergency room or doctor’s office right away! Delayed drowning can be treated if caught early enough."

 

[Pensfan]

I never heard of this! This is scary, is it rare or common?!

Not common. In this study it occurred in 5% of children who had drowned/near drowning.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1714551/

 

[SCHMAE]

OK... I'm going to throw this out as part of the panic scenario possibilities. As several of us have speculated, maybe the COD is drowning. It's awfully coincidental that Alanna had a near drowning incident just before returning from camp. IF this was a panic scenario, and not a homicide at all, I wonder if it's possible that this was actually a "delayed drowning":

"Delayed drowning usually occurs following a near drowning event. The individual may recover and expel some of the water from the lungs, but a small amount of water remains in the lungs. This prevents proper oxygen exchange in the lungs and leads to oxygen deprivation in the brain and other organs. This may result in death up to 24 hours after the submersion."

http://www.parentingstartshere.com/...ayed-drowning-facts-drowning-prevention-tips/

WOW ! I just read about this like a month ago. I'd never heard of it before.

 

[Linda7NJ]

The FBI knows that defense attorney frequently try to prove that "some other dude did it" and "the police are incompetent". By allowing companies to donate billboards to bring in tips, the DA can prove that EVERYTHING possible was done to find suspects. This destroys the "some other dude did it" defense and the "police didn't look for other dudes" defense.

Where's Gitanna? I'm sure there must be some professional name for those defenses. lol

I think you nailed it SODDI

 

[jjenny]

OK... I'm going to throw this out as part of the panic scenario possibilities. As several of us have speculated, maybe the COD is drowning. It's awfully coincidental that Alanna had a near drowning incident just before returning from camp. IF this was a panic scenario, and not a homicide at all, I wonder if it's possible that this was actually a "delayed drowning":

"Delayed drowning usually occurs following a near drowning event. The individual may recover and expel some of the water from the lungs, but a small amount of water remains in the lungs. This prevents proper oxygen exchange in the lungs and leads to oxygen deprivation in the brain and other organs. This may result in death up to 24 hours after the submersion."

http://www.parentingstartshere.com/...ayed-drowning-facts-drowning-prevention-tips/

And how did she end up in the middle of the road, with a bag on her head, taped up and tarped up? She obviously didn't do it to herself.

 

[fred&edna]

I thought about this type of scenario, but I have difficulty believing this was an accidental death. Normal person discovers Alanna in their pool/hot tub/yard, and their normal, non-pervy mind immediately thinks to stage this as an abduction/sexual assault/murder?

Also, if Alanna wandered into someone's yard and was fatally injured or fell into someone's pool and drowned, then the person isn't even at fault. I just can't fathom that they would panic to the extent that they would stage something this grotesque and risk being caught with her dead body in their vehicle, close to their house, in this condition (certainly indicating murder/sexual assault).

Excellent points!

I was assuming no sexual assault, but what "condition/s" leads you to think there was sexual assault? Was it the lack of clothing or that plus more?

('Just trying to generate additional thinking on my part... NOT being snarky, mean or any other bad thing!)

 

[Linda7NJ]

OK... I'm going to throw this out as part of the panic scenario possibilities. As several of us have speculated, maybe the COD is drowning. It's awfully coincidental that Alanna had a near drowning incident just before returning from camp. IF this was a panic scenario, and not a homicide at all, I wonder if it's possible that this was actually a "delayed drowning":

"Delayed drowning usually occurs following a near drowning event. The individual may recover and expel some of the water from the lungs, but a small amount of water remains in the lungs. This prevents proper oxygen exchange in the lungs and leads to oxygen deprivation in the brain and other organs. This may result in death up to 24 hours after the submersion."

http://www.parentingstartshere.com/...ayed-drowning-facts-drowning-prevention-tips/

That's really interesting. Never heard of that. Thanks for linking it

 

[jjenny]

Assuming there was no evidence of sexual assault, here's a theory with lots of holes... I'm just thinking aloud.

What if the child died from suffocation (accidental) and not-so-intelligent caregiver panics because he/she was neglectful (maybe engaged in illegal or nefarious activity at the time child died). Caregiver calls very intelligent friend who cleverly "conceals" everything (using tape, bags, etc). While attempting to dispose of the body... driving two different vehicles... body "somehow" falls out??

Who would be the caregiver? This child was roaming the neighborhood as reported by neighbors. She didn't have a babysitter as far as I can tell.