GUILTY TX - Alanna Gallagher, 6, Saginaw, 1 July 2013 - #5

[Linda7NJ]

If all of the vehicles coming and going that day caught on video have been accounted for...that's pretty scary. IMO whoever killed and dump that child still walks among them all.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I would be willing to bet that neither anyone @ ME office (PR, etc) and particularly not the actual pathologist/ME doing the autopsy took a phone call and answered questions from the MSM. That has to come from a released (post-attorney review, of course) statement. Please anyone, don't hesitate to correct me if this has happened in the past......but I just can't see that happening, esp in a case like this.

Not trying to be contrary, I just don't think there was opportunity for Q&A session w/ path signing out the case.

That said, they may well be withholding info.

I once called my local medial examiner because I had a few questions while following the Cynthia Sommers murder trial. I was shocked when I was actually put through and he was more than happy to answer all of my questions and then some.

I've called experts and authors with the same result over the years.

I don't think the result would be the same during an open investigation.

All IMO

 

[Pensfan]

But they don't undress the victims, put bags over their had, tape them up and tarp them up.

(not snarky voice) How do you know this for sure? I've looked and I can't find anything that proves this. I'm ready for anyone to provide a reputable source/link which proves creeps (who have killed someone in an accident) never resort to elaborate crime staging to divert police attention from themselves.

 

[Confusion]

Not all sexually motivated crimes, involve sexually assaulting the victim. Not all sexual crimes involve penetration. And...for some offenders, murder IS the sexual gratification and sex act.

Ugh. I don't even want to think about that any longer. Sorry to be so graphic

First I wanted to thank you for this. I was trying to find a way of saying that without being completely disgusting. You did a much better job than I would have.

___________

I can think of two times when someone might stage an accidental death to make it look like a murder. One I already mentioned - if she accidentally died because of illegal drugs. Whether they were given to her by someone else, but not meant to kill her, or she found them and took them, it wouldn't be in the best interests of the owner of the drugs to just call 911. MOO

What keeps popping into my head (but doesn't usually stay there for long) is that she could have died at the home of someone who has serious problems with the lifestyle of her parents, and who believes she was neglected (whether she was or not). It could have been made to look like an abduction and sex crime to make it look like she died because of parental negligence which would serve three purposes. First it would get rid of any stigma/investigation of the person's own home/life. Second, it would possibly result in at least one of the parents serving jail time for neglect. Third it would probably get the other children removed from the home (if it had worked as planned.)

I'm not sure if I find either very plausible, even if possible. MOO

 

[GingerzMomma]

Why narcissists? Usually I see the general term sociopath being used. Is there something specific about narcissists and murder or child abduction/murder? I'm just not familiar with this correlation.

IMO (no professional training here.....but lots of experience w/ "asshats"): one and the same! ;-)

** not that all narcissists are sociopaths, but all sociopaths are narcissists.....again, IMO**

 

[jjenny]

(not snarky voice) How do you know this for sure? I've looked and I can't find anything that proves this. I'm ready for anyone to provide a reputable source/link which proves creeps (who have killed someone in an accident) never resort to elaborate crime staging to divert attention from themselves.

Because it's extremely unusual for a body to end up in the middle of the road like this child's was. In fact I can't recall any other case right now.
If there were people staging up accidents to look like sexually motivated murders, where are all these bodies?

 

[Anna Morphic]

Parents who have children that die from accidents have to worry about CPS "taking" their other children.

Oh,ok. I was thinking of people in other houses in the neighborhood she may have visited that day, but I see what you mean.

 

[Pensfan]

So do parents whose child was abducted/murdered by someone. So staging an accident as murder is not going to achieve anything.

If a psychopath grabs and kills your child, it is easier to prove to CPS that the situation was "out of your control". If your child drowns in your hot tub, there is no one but yourself for CPS to blame.

 

[momrids6]

I don't have an explanation. That's why I didn't mention it earlier. But the recent near drowning does seem a bit coincidental (given that LE seized a bunch of hot tub chemicals and water samples). But a few folks were speculating about panic drowning scenarios, so I thought I'd add that to the discussion. Maybe someone else can come up with a plausible narrative?

I think the wet suit in a bag was from camp. I think Alanna had chlorine residue on her skin- could be from camp, the tarp, or a swim/soak since she last showered.

 

[ArianeEmory]

If all of the vehicles coming and going that day caught on video have been accounted for...that's pretty scary. IMO whoever killed and dump that child still walks among them all.

My train of thought just went like this:

Maybe no car involved at all? -> possible teen involvement -> Autumn Pasquale -> I wonder how closely they checked out the occupants of the houses not closest to, but maybe a few doors down from, the dump site.

(AP's teen killers put her in the garbage bin of the house next door.)

 

[Linda7NJ]

If a psychopath grabs and kills your child, it is easier to prove to CPS that the situation was "out of your control". If your child drowns in your hot tub, there is no one but yourself for CPS to blame.

IMO it would be almost impossible for a 6 year old to drown accidentally in a softub.

No saying that 6 year old should be left unattended ....I made my kid bathe with the bathroom door open. He was a singer and splasher. 2 seconds of silence... And I'd be there

 

[Anna Morphic]

If a psychopath grabs and kills your child, it is easier to prove to CPS that the situation was "out of your control". If your child drowns in your hot tub, there is no one but yourself for CPS to blame.

It's so hard for me to imagine doing anything but sobbing with my dead child in my arms while I wait for paramedics if a fatal accident was to happen in my home. (Sorry to be graphic.) Defiling his little body by dumping it like trash, just ugh. I don't want to think it was the parents.

 

[GingerzMomma]

I once called my local medial examiner because I had a few questions while following the Cynthia Sommers murder trial. I was shocked when I was actually put through and he was more than happy to answer all of my questions and then some.

I've called experts and authors with the same result over the years.

I don't think the result would be the same during an open investigation.

All IMO

Really??!!!! No snark intended, whatsoever - but I've been working w/ pathologists for over 20 years (not in forensics myself, but those I've worked w/ have performed routine & ME work) and they would only speak to whomever ordered the autopsy or were otherwise legally obligated: LE, family, hospital admin, for example.

Perhaps difference is whether case is open or closed? Still, most docs whose names were on the report won't speak about cases except in the line of performing it, to whomever ordered it, and in legal circumstances (subpoena, testimony, etc).....

 

[FrayedKnot]

IMO (no professional training here.....but lots of experience w/ "asshats"): one and the same! ;-)

** not that all narcissists are sociopaths, but all sociopaths are narcissists.....again, IMO**

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh: Asshats.

One of my faves. Sorry. Carry on. Ahem. :blushing:

 

[Linda7NJ]

Really??!!!! No snark intended, whatsoever - but I've been working w/ pathologists for over 20 years (not in forensics myself, but those I've worked w/ have performed routine & ME work) and they would only speak to whomever ordered the autopsy or were otherwise legally obligated: LE, family, hospital admin, for example.

Perhaps difference is whether case is open or closed? Still, most docs whose names were on the report won't speak about cases except in the line of performing it, to whomever ordered it, and in legal circumstances (subpoena, testimony, etc).....

Sorry if I wasn't clear. I didn't speak to the ME that did the autopsy. I spoke to my local one about questions I had that another ME was testifying to.

 

[dandan08]

This has probably been mentioned already regarding the vehicle, restraints, and where the body ended up on the road near the curb so I apologise if it has.

What if Alanna's body was on top of the vehicle, held down by restraints. Like this:

Then one of these restraints came loose and the body fell off the vehicle as it went round the corner. It kind of makes sense as to why LE took all types of restraints from the family home. Also could the picture of the "plastic thing" on page 3 actually have been one of the straps that came loose?

Here are a couple of types of restraints for loads on car roofs:

If the vehicle had a roof rack, tarpaulin and restraints then maybe LE should be looking for someone who goes camping, who holds their gear on the roof of their vehicle.

 

[Linda7NJ]

This has probably been mentioned already regarding the vehicle, restraints, and where the body ended up on the road near the curb so I apologise if it has.

What if Alanna's body was on top of the vehicle, held down by restraints. Like this:

Then one of these restraints came loose and the body fell off the vehicle as it went round the corner. It kind of makes sense as to why LE took all types of restraints from the family home. Also could the picture of the "plastic thing" on page 3 actually have been one of the straps that came loose?

Here are a couple of types of restraints for loads on car roofs:

If the vehicle had a roof rack, tarpaulin and restraints then maybe LE should be looking for someone who goes camping, who holds their gear on the roof of their vehicle.

Ooooo a new theory ... I like it!


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[cypress]

This is kind of graphic to think about, but I'll post anyway:

LE is obviously looking for restraints for a reason. There are ways that people can be tied up that can cause them to suffocate. Maybe that's why the cause of death isn't obvious -- no handprints from strangulation, no blunt force trauma, but asphyxiation from being restrained somehow.

Also, we know that there was tape on her body. Maybe her airways were taped over.

 

[GingerzMomma]

Sorry if I wasn't clear. I didn't speak to the ME that did the autopsy. I spoke to my local one about questions I had that another ME was testifying to.

Okay, I can see that!

I assume it was more for clarification/process/general info than giving their medical opinion on the case, though? Most (doctors in general) that I know won't second guess someone else's work unless they have to.

(By "have to", I mean second opinion is ordered by someone w/ authority to do so, they are granted access to patient/materials used in diagnosis - in autopsy example would incl photos, original slides & tissue blocks for their own recuts/stains, clinical results/samples, etc). And then they will generate and sign their own report.

* Seriously - not trying to be one of the "asshats" I referenced previously. The way I perceived your statement just really surprised me, is all! *

 

[JaimeInLA]

You don't stage something to appear worse than it actually was. You might stage a murder as an accident. There is no point in staging an accident as a murder.

Nobody staged a murder. They simply dumped a body. The cause of death wasn't even apparent.

Let's pretend for a minute that she was wandering around and saw the pool of the neighbor 3 doors down. She knocks but nobody comes to the door. She takes off her clothes and jumps in the pool in her underwear, and drowns. The neighbor comes home and finds her floating in the pool.

Hypothetically, that neighbor doesn't have homeowners insurance. He FREAKS out -- "I don't even know this kid! I'm not going to risk losing my home and everything I own because the meddling kid used my pool!" So he wraps her in a tarp, binding her legs for easier transport, drives her a mile away and dumps her, then quickly drives home and disposes of her clothes.

I think we need to consider this as a possibility! Seems entirely possible to me!