GUILTY TX - Alicia Moore, 16, Greenville, 2 November 2012

[Ransom]

http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Two-in-Custody-Tied-to-Slain-Teen-Alicia-Moore-177971971.html

Video also about the arrest +++

 

[nikb]

There must be some connection between Whetstone and the Moore family.

Perhaps the connection is between Whetstone and Ramsire ?

I did a quick search on his "friends" list on FB to see if Alicia was on there and she wasn't (whew!). But then I searched for "Moore" and yes, there is
a connection of some sort between the Whetstone and Moore families. I don't want to risk saying anything more because I'm worried about getting into dicey territory with the ToS since it's not clear if it's LE or just the reporter saying Whetstone may be linked to Alicia's death.

 

[nikb]

A little clarification. The woman that some have said is Alicia's sister, is actually her bio-mom, Aretha Moore, age 35.

Here she is with a reporter:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/08/alicia-moore-murder_n_2093017.html

around 27 seconds and onward.

Her Aunt Jessica Byrd - that is the spokesperson for the family and Alicia lived with her and Aretha Moore.

As far as we know Alicia has no sister.

Ohh thank you for clarifying. I honestly wasn't sure. There was an update made to the article about the arrest that also clarifies that it was in fact an assult on Alicia that led to the jail sentence.

http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Two-in-Custody-Tied-to-Slain-Teen-Alicia-Moore-177971971.html

"Greenville police said Moore's mother filed a criminal complaint over the summer saying 49-year-old Terry Ramsire sexually assaulted the 16-year-old. He was arrested Aug. 23 and charged with sexual assault of a child and indecency with a child by sexual contact.

NBC 5 generally does not identify victims of alleged sexual assault, but Moore's identity was made public before NBC 5 learned of the allegations."

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

What bullying page? Is there a link?



I find that a bit unlikely. All that 1 minute from her home and noone saw or heard anything? And the bullies had a car and transported her off to hide her until Tuesday?

Does someone know what's the street like where she lives? Rows of houses, shops, or lots of empty ground?

KAE provided a couple of great maps towards the beginning of the thread... You may want to check those out....

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

I did a quick search on his "friends" list on FB to see if Alicia was on there and she wasn't (whew!). But then I searched for "Moore" and yes, there is
a connection of some sort between the Whetstone and Moore families. I don't want to risk saying anything more because I'm worried about getting into dicey territory with the ToS since it's not clear if it's LE or just the reporter saying Whetstone may be linked to Alicia's death.

hey Nikb!

Great sleuthing!!!

 

[SmoothOperator]

I will give you a really simple example. If I invited you in for tea and cookies and while you were adding sugar to your tea I came up behind you and shot you in the head-it would be murder, no abduction required. HTH
And by "you" I do not mean YOU-just using as example. I don't think they can say until they know more

Fair enough and point taken.. I absolutely get what you're saying and agree that in the above scenario that no, there would be no abduction, but rather just straight murder..

And I could be wrong(certainly wouldn't be the first or last time..and as always if I am wrong I have no problem admitting such) as well as acknowledging that my anger was misplaced and inappropriate regarding the particular statement made by this LEO.. It is possible that my having such disgust with the obvious delay in urgency and taking serious this tiny young girl's disappearance by this LE makes me all the more leery about anything stated by them..

You are correct in that if a scenario similar to what you describe above is in fact found to be what occurred to precious Alicia that it would NOT be charged as an abduction.. Sadly I can only hope that it was something similar in nature to this scenario for the simple fact that she would not have suffered, been terrified, and in great fear of what was to come.. It is that which as a possibility of what happened to her and was she left in a state of terror and/or suffering for some or any amount of time..it is that which hurts me for what she possibly had to endure..

I pray whatever and however it happened that it was quick..bless her sweet, little, innocent heartlease:

 

[Indy Anna]

Fair enough and point taken.. I absolutely get what you're saying and agree that in the above scenario that no, there would be no abduction, but rather just straight murder..

And I could be wrong(certainly wouldn't be the first or last time..and as always if I am wrong I have no problem admitting such) as well as acknowledging that my anger was misplaced and inappropriate regarding the particular statement made by this LEO.. It is possible that my having such disgust with the obvious delay in urgency and taking serious this tiny young girl's disappearance by this LE makes me all the more leery about anything stated by them..

You are correct in that if a scenario similar to what you describe above is in fact found to be what occurred to precious Alicia that it would NOT be charged as an abduction.. Sadly I can only hope that it was something similar in nature to this scenario for the simple fact that she would not have suffered, been terrified, and in great fear of what was to come.. It is that which as a possibility of what happened to her and was she left in a state of terror and/or suffering for some or any amount of time..it is that which hurts me for what she possibly had to endure..

I pray whatever and however it happened that it was quick..bless her sweet, little, innocent heartlease:

I understand why you were upset. I was at first, too, when they suggested Alicia may not have been abducted and because LE didn't begin investigating her disappearance until Monday. Now I'm wondering if LE initially considered Alicia a runaway because someone saw her get into a car after she got off the bus?

My understanding is that MSM, at least, is suggesting that Ramsire had Whetstone kill Alicia after he was arrested for assaulting her, because she had reported to her family what he did. While LE hasn't named Whetstone a suspect in connection with Alicia's murder, his mother acknowledges that LE has been investigating him in connection with the case.

 

[all4justice]

Ohh thank you for clarifying. I honestly wasn't sure. There was an update made to the article about the arrest that also clarifies that it was in fact an assult on Alicia that led to the jail sentence.

http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Two-in-Custody-Tied-to-Slain-Teen-Alicia-Moore-177971971.html

"Greenville police said Moore's mother filed a criminal complaint over the summer saying 49-year-old Terry Ramsire sexually assaulted the 16-year-old. He was arrested Aug. 23 and charged with sexual assault of a child and indecency with a child by sexual contact.

NBC 5 generally does not identify victims of alleged sexual assault, but Moore's identity was made public before NBC 5 learned of the allegations."

Bullied, sexually assaulted, and murdered all within a year? Poor Alicia. I hope justice is swift in this case:tears:

 

[cluciano63]

Kind of OT, but I am so sick of hearing about bullying. I don't remember there being so much cruelty to each other when I was in school. But look at the examples set by politicians, reality TV "stars", inter-office BS, etc...not to get off on that rant, but adults these days are not exactly always great role models. Still, kids being mean to kids just seems so awful to me, especially as teens when there is no excuse for not knowing better.

 

[mck16]

I understand why you were upset. I was at first, too, when they suggested Alicia may not have been abducted and because LE didn't begin investigating her disappearance until Monday. Now I'm wondering if LE initially considered Alicia a runaway because someone saw her get into a car after she got off the bus?

My understanding is that MSM, at least, is suggesting that Ramsire had Whetstone kill Alicia after he was arrested for assaulting her, because she had reported to her family what he did. While LE hasn't named Whetstone a suspect in connection with Alicia's murder, his mother acknowledges that LE has been investigating him in connection with the case.

this is so sad,and so close. I was planning to go that day to a nursery on that very highway to buy crepe myrtle trees. just don't know what to say. you never know when tradgey will strike in your own peaceful environment. I am so sorry Alicia. jmo

 

[epiphany]

Reporter on Video at link:

"Police confirm they're investigating whether Moore's murder could be retaliation for Ramshire's charge."

Mother of T Whetstone on Video at link:

"For this murder...Cause they said they had a call that the girl and my son was here."

http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Two-in-Custody-Tied-to-Slain-Teen-Alicia-Moore-177971971.html

 

[mck16]

Kind of OT, but I am so sick of hearing about bullying. I don't remember there being so much cruelty to each other when I was in school. But look at the examples set by politicians, reality TV "stars", inter-office BS, etc...not to get off on that rant, but adults these days are not exactly always great role models. Still, kids being mean to kids just seems so awful to me, especially as teens when there is no excuse for not knowing better.

I agree with you. When I was in school, we had 'slam books' and we knew who liked us and who didn't. And we dealt with it. Who expects to be liked by everyone. I really don't know what happened. Why can't we accept rejection and the fact that we don't have to be liked by everyone. Where is the backbone in our kids today? jmo

 

[cluciano63]

I agree with you. When I was in school, we had 'slam books' and we knew who liked us and who didn't. And we dealt with it. Who expects to be liked by everyone. I really don't know what happened. Why can't we accept rejection and the fact that we don't have to be liked by everyone. Where is the backbone in our kids today? jmo

Still, there is a difference between not liking someone else and actively picking on them, calling names, etc. I remember feeling sorry for some kids back in school who always seemed to be alone or whatever, but no one was hounding them or taunting them.

 

[epiphany]

T Whetstone went on to say that her son has an alibi, saying he was at her aunt's home all day Friday, Saturday and Sunday.

www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Two-in-Custody-Tied-to-Slain-Teen-Alicia-Moore-177971971.html

 

[Confusion]

Kind of OT, but I am so sick of hearing about bullying. I don't remember there being so much cruelty to each other when I was in school. But look at the examples set by politicians, reality TV "stars", inter-office BS, etc...not to get off on that rant, but adults these days are not exactly always great role models. Still, kids being mean to kids just seems so awful to me, especially as teens when there is no excuse for not knowing better.

I agree with you. When I was in school, we had 'slam books' and we knew who liked us and who didn't. And we dealt with it. Who expects to be liked by everyone. I really don't know what happened. Why can't we accept rejection and the fact that we don't have to be liked by everyone. Where is the backbone in our kids today? jmo

I don't think it's new, and I don't think it has anything to do with expecting to be liked by everyone. I knew many bullies, and even more victims of bullies, in the 60s and have heard stories about them from earlier than that. There was a girl in my class in 6th grade who had been teased mercilessly for years. Even at that age, I couldn't believe how cruel some of the kids could be. At the end of that school year, she finally committed suicide; rather than feeling guilt or remorse, those same kids made jokes about it. I also know people now who are in their 60s and 70s who still get upset when they think about kids who bullied them when they were in school. I think the biggest changes that have happened are that victims are using weapons to fight back, media makes people more aware of what's going on and it's no longer an accepted practice in most places. MOO

 

[Public_Hysteria]

The more information that comes out, the more terrible I feel. This poor girl was sexually assaulted, bullied, and murdered... my heart is absolutely breaking for her to suffer so much in her short 16 years of life. The only comfort I feel is knowing that her family were obviously such an amazing support system for her, that is evident in how strongly they are fighting for her now.

I hope her death was quick and painless... I really can't bear the thought of her suffering more than she already had.

 

[Public_Hysteria]

T Whetstone went on to say that her son has an alibi, saying he was at her aunt's home all day Friday, Saturday and Sunday.

www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Two-in-Custody-Tied-to-Slain-Teen-Alicia-Moore-177971971.html

I wonder whether someone can say they were actually physically WITH him for the ENTIRE weekend. It's all well and good to say he was at the aunt's home all weekend, but does that mean there wasn't a single time that he went out, and someone was physically there with him in their sight the entire time?

I understand his mother wanting to stand up for him, this is her child, and I can't imagine how it must feel to have one of your own accused of such a thing. It's a parents job to stand up for and protect their child, and I think that sometimes it's hard to believe that your own child could be capable of such a thing.

JMO :moo:

 

[Marilynilpa]

Still, there is a difference between not liking someone else and actively picking on them, calling names, etc. I remember feeling sorry for some kids back in school who always seemed to be alone or whatever, but no one was hounding them or taunting them.

Today, bullying is so much more than what I recall from school. Social media takes it to a whole different level, IMO.

 

[Indy Anna]

I agree with you. When I was in school, we had 'slam books' and we knew who liked us and who didn't. And we dealt with it. Who expects to be liked by everyone. I really don't know what happened. Why can't we accept rejection and the fact that we don't have to be liked by everyone. Where is the backbone in our kids today? jmo

I don't know what you mean by "slam books" but I agree that kids today don't have a backbone. When I hear about kids committing suicide because they were bullied, I wonder what could've driven them to that point. In HS, I would often cry after I got home from school because of the bullying. I would then wash my face before my mother got home so she wouldn't know that I'd been crying. And, for me, HS was so much better than elementary school. In elementary school, I was a rather sickly child to begin with. Whenever I was worried about going to school, I didn't have to pretend to be sick so that I could stay home because I would actually get sick. Academically, I liked school but the bullies made me a nervous wreck.

I certainly don't want other children to go through what I did. I really wish bullying would stop altogether. But, why did those of us who were bullied in school fare so much better than children today? While I was quiet and shy throughout school, I did have friends. And I tended to befriend other kids who were friendless. I wonder if kids today don't feel there's as much protection from teachers and other authority figures. I told earlier about the teacher who told a boy who had been harassing me that she would've hit him if I hadn't. Today, that teacher would've been fired for her words. I'm not saying that she was right to say it, or even that I was right to hit the boy. But, teachers today have to be careful of what they say and do, and the bullies know that. The teachers in my elementary school had enough difficulty controlling some of the students, but now teachers cannot discipline the kids at all. Without that moral support from authority figures, I can understand how the well-behaved, quiet kids would feel more intimidated than we once did.

I've even seen how bullies in the workplace thrive because upper management doesn't intervene. There's the threat of a lawsuit if the bullies are dismissed. Plus, the bullies don't respect authority and not even company executives want to be harassed by the bullies, so they ignore the harassment that goes on around them.

Sorry for the soap box, but just saying that I can understand how difficult it must be for children today who are targeted by bullies. Alicia endured so much hardship in her short life with the CSA and bullying. Although she seemed relatively friendless, it appears she brought so much joy to those who did know her well. Hoping for justice soon.

 

[Indy Anna]

I don't think it's new, and I don't think it has anything to do with expecting to be liked by everyone. I knew many bullies, and even more victims of bullies, in the 60s and have heard stories about them from earlier than that. There was a girl in my class in 6th grade who had been teased mercilessly for years. Even at that age, I couldn't believe how cruel some of the kids could be. At the end of that school year, she finally committed suicide; rather than feeling guilt or remorse, those same kids made jokes about it. I also know people now who are in their 60s and 70s who still get upset when they think about kids who bullied them when they were in school. I think the biggest changes that have happened are that victims are using weapons to fight back, media makes people more aware of what's going on and it's no longer an accepted practice in most places. MOO

How sad about the girl in your class committing suicide. In that day I never heard of anyone committing suicide in response to bullying, so I do think it was much rarer then than it is now.

I have to disagree about victims of bullying using weapons to fight back. The ones who resort to violence are usually the bullies. They may feel they're being mistreated because the other kids avoid/reject them and even stand up against them. It's unfair the victims of bullying have been given such a vigilante image.

In my last place of employment, I was forced to do things I'm not supposed to do because of a disability. I'd already gone through voc rehab twice and spent my life's savings going back to school so I could get a job that wasn't physically demanding. But, after I was hired my duties changed. I tried explaining my disability to coworkers only to have most scoff at me or ignore me. Those who did care and tried to help me were dismissed or sent to another department because others complained. I lost a lot of weight because I often didn't have time to eat lunch, was too sick to grocery shop and too sick to fix a decent meal when I got home. My disability was compounded. Even after my job got easier, some coworkers would criticize everything I did and said, even things I did out of courtesy. For over 10 years, I ignored my coworkers' ill-treatment and tried to maintain a cheery attitude. When my physical pain became unbearable, though, I became depressed and irritable. I called to make an appointment with a mental health counselor and when I admitted that I was angry because of what I'd been through, the first question I was asked was whether I was thinking about harming my coworkers (or something like that). What??? I'm suddenly a potential danger to my coworkers because they abused me? One coworker would even (teasingly) threaten to knock me down, but apparently that was acceptable.

So, that's why it upsets me when people suggest that perpetrators of violence are victims of bullying. It's the other way around. Victims, IMO, are being wrongly stigmatized, adding insult to injury. I'd better get off my soapbox and get to bed now before I get in trouble.