GUILTY TX - Alicia Moore, 16, Greenville, 2 November 2012

  • #441
How sad about the girl in your class committing suicide. In that day I never heard of anyone committing suicide in response to bullying, so I do think it was much rarer then than it is now.

Thanks. It was a long time ago, but sometimes I still wonder if it would have made any difference if some of us had stood up for her more.

I have to disagree about victims of bullying using weapons to fight back. The ones who resort to violence are usually the bullies. They may feel they're being mistreated because the other kids avoid/reject them and even stand up against them. It's unfair the victims of bullying have been given such a vigilante image.

I guess I wasn't real clear about what I meant. I have known kids in middle school over the past 5-10 years who took weapons to school with them because they weren't physically capable of stopping someone who was physically bullying them. Luckily, none of the kids I knew ever actually used them, but there's a reason why so many schools have metal detectors, bars, guards and other safety measures to protect the staff and students.

In my last place of employment, I was forced to do things I'm not supposed to do because of a disability. I'd already gone through voc rehab twice and spent my life's savings going back to school so I could get a job that wasn't physically demanding. But, after I was hired my duties changed. I tried explaining my disability to coworkers only to have most scoff at me or ignore me. Those who did care and tried to help me were dismissed or sent to another department because others complained. I lost a lot of weight because I often didn't have time to eat lunch, was too sick to grocery shop and too sick to fix a decent meal when I got home. My disability was compounded. Even after my job got easier, some coworkers would criticize everything I did and said, even things I did out of courtesy.

I'm guessing this was before the ADA. There are things that can be done, but after a lifetime of abuse (or what sometimes feels like a lifetime), I don't think a lot of people realize that there is help out there.

For over 10 years, I ignored my coworkers' ill-treatment and tried to maintain a cheery attitude. When my physical pain became unbearable, though, I became depressed and irritable. I called to make an appointment with a mental health counselor and when I admitted that I was angry because of what I'd been through, the first question I was asked was whether I was thinking about harming my coworkers (or something like that). What??? I'm suddenly a potential danger to my coworkers because they abused me? One coworker would even (teasingly) threaten to knock me down, but apparently that was acceptable.

That's one of those generic questions they ask most people when they start therapy. Better safe than sorry, I guess.

So, that's why it upsets me when people suggest that perpetrators of violence are victims of bullying. It's the other way around. Victims, IMO, are being wrongly stigmatized, adding insult to injury. I'd better get off my soapbox and get to bed now before I get in trouble. :P

I definitely didn't say that the bullies were the victims, I'm sorry if you understood it that way.

Responses in bold.
 
  • #442
Reporter on Video at link:

"Police confirm they're investigating whether Moore's murder could be retaliation for Ramshire's charge."


Mother of T Whetstone on Video at link:

"For this murder...Cause they said they had a call that the girl and my son was here.
"

http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Two-in-Custody-Tied-to-Slain-Teen-Alicia-Moore-177971971.html

Thank you so much for posting this!

ETA: does this mean LE has confirmed it? In the text article it still says basically no comment, but I can't watch the video right now. I hope they have.
 
  • #443
Can someone answer this question? I did not hear the first part of this on JVM...did someone sexually assault Alicia in the past and also....I wonder if the fact this killer/killers placed the trunk where it was sure to be found instead of tryng harder to hide her...I always think that is someone who wants to get credit right away...not real'y worded right you are all much better at this than me...but for some reason it does make me think this person knew her or had some sort of history with the family and was anxious to see their despair....maybe even someone at the vigil...I HATE the way LE has treated this case....I hear that comment again....AFTER she is found dead in a trunk...."We still cannot say whether she was abducted" WTH????????????

If she went home and met with foul play she was not abducted!
If the neighbor asked her to come in and see something in his house and killed her she was not abucted.
I think what they are trying to tell us is that she knew the person that did this to her.
 
  • #444
ok after searching Whetstones' fb I am SHOCKED to say the least at this connection. Why oh why would they have been fb friends?? its quite obvious.

Also after reading --- and seeing this fb connection -- ramshire and Whet knew each other. When R got in trouble for the sexual assault - which OMG this is kind of clicking for me....but I dont know how much I can say. Please delete if this is wrong....

So this connection I found -- we'll call them J for examples sake. J knew W. W knew R. at some point in time R and J hung out; W might have joined. Well during this time R assaulted alicia and got in trouble. W still knew J and thus knew Alicia. W then hurt Alicia or was doing something to get back at her for getting R in trouble.

Did that make sense? W doesnt look that old to me unless Im wrong so why does "J" know W??
 
  • #445
^^ who's on first?? lol.

I actually DO follow you ... just thought it read like a comedy ....

I think this whole thing is coming together .. and surely LE has more than WE do. All they have to do (if they haven't already) is figure out where the trunk came from...

tick tock tick tock
 
  • #446
LOL TC!!

I read back through it and was like, ehhh it kind of makes sense!! I'll be curious to see how this pans out.
 
  • #447
]If she went home and met with foul play she was not abducted![/B]If the neighbor asked her to come in and see something in his house and killed her she was not abucted.
I think what they are trying to tell us is that she knew the person that did this to her.

I do understand the wording and I do understand what they meant and for me if officials, whether school or LE had been a little more compassionate I do not think I would have even noticed the wording....the whole fiasco of a presser bothered me...not just that!
 
  • #448
Why would Alicia be around such a creepy guy as the one accused of assaulting her? Did she know him?? Friend of the family....maybe friend of the uncle......maybe?
 
  • #449
I don't know what you mean by "slam books" but I agree that kids today don't have a backbone. When I hear about kids committing suicide because they were bullied, I wonder what could've driven them to that point. In HS, I would often cry after I got home from school because of the bullying. I would then wash my face before my mother got home so she wouldn't know that I'd been crying. And, for me, HS was so much better than elementary school. In elementary school, I was a rather sickly child to begin with. Whenever I was worried about going to school, I didn't have to pretend to be sick so that I could stay home because I would actually get sick. Academically, I liked school but the bullies made me a nervous wreck.

I certainly don't want other children to go through what I did. I really wish bullying would stop altogether. But, why did those of us who were bullied in school fare so much better than children today? While I was quiet and shy throughout school, I did have friends. And I tended to befriend other kids who were friendless. I wonder if kids today don't feel there's as much protection from teachers and other authority figures. I told earlier about the teacher who told a boy who had been harassing me that she would've hit him if I hadn't. Today, that teacher would've been fired for her words. I'm not saying that she was right to say it, or even that I was right to hit the boy. But, teachers today have to be careful of what they say and do, and the bullies know that. The teachers in my elementary school had enough difficulty controlling some of the students, but now teachers cannot discipline the kids at all. Without that moral support from authority figures, I can understand how the well-behaved, quiet kids would feel more intimidated than we once did.

I've even seen how bullies in the workplace thrive because upper management doesn't intervene. There's the threat of a lawsuit if the bullies are dismissed. Plus, the bullies don't respect authority and not even company executives want to be harassed by the bullies, so they ignore the harassment that goes on around them.

Sorry for the soap box, but just saying that I can understand how difficult it must be for children today who are targeted by bullies. Alicia endured so much hardship in her short life with the CSA and bullying. Although she seemed relatively friendless, it appears she brought so much joy to those who did know her well. Hoping for justice soon.

Thanks button is not enough...

so many spot on observations...

so well written...

and I am sorry you had to endure the bullying...

One more point... When kids were bullied at school before... The home was often a "safe place"....

Now with social networking... Bullying is insinuated into the home, as well...:(

JMO
 
  • #450
I wonder if the family downplayed bullying because they had an idea who might be behind Alicia's murder.
 
  • #451
I went to the original fb i found for Alicia when the story first broke on her page she post a photo of herself i looked under the pic for people who liked,in another browser I had TW page open i ran threw every friend there is a young lady that is on Alicia as well as tw page and from there you find more friends and contacts the same. IMO it is possible he might have seen her pictures or even tried to chat with her.Here is the link http://www.facebook.com/alicia.moore.12979
 
  • #452
Greenville Interdenominational Ministerial Alliance issues statement on Moore case

We are urging our communities to be alert and focused (for a killer is still on the loose) to be sober in our actions and that our individual actions not interfere with the police investigation. We are waiting on the facts to fill in all our blanks that we may have, and not just jump to conclusions or accusations. This is not a time to operate solely by our feelings but to allow them to fuel our faith to be empowered to withstand the bad and also the opportunities for good.

http://heraldbanner.com/topnews/x69...erial-Alliance-issues-statement-on-Moore-case
 
  • #453
I went to the original fb i found for Alicia when the story first broke on her page she post a photo of herself i looked under the pic for people who liked,in another browser I had TW page open i ran threw every friend there is a young lady that is on Alicia as well as tw page and from there you find more friends and contacts the same. IMO it is possible he might have seen her pictures or even tried to chat with her.Here is the link http://www.facebook.com/alicia.moore.12979

Yeah, there are many many friends/contacts the same once you start looking, most quite a bit older than Alicia. Purely guessing but I'm thinking maybe it's a lot of family or friends of family, just because of the ages.

Before anyone gets worried I didn't sleuth any minors, nor do I plan to. I was in fact surprised that I didn't even really run across any - other than Alicia of course - when looking at connections.
 
  • #454
Snipped

— A community mourning and awareness walk from Graham Park to the intersection of Bourland and Walnut Streets, where Moore exited the bus, is scheduled for noon Saturday. Organizers are asking those participating in the event to wear purple, Moore’s favorite color, if possible.

Snipped

Those wishing to leave an anonymous tip about the case to Crime Stoppers can call 903-457-2929.

Also, Memorial and Reward Fund info at link below:

http://heraldbanner.com/topnews/x69...aturday-memorial-and-reward-funds-established
 
  • #455
What we know about Terry Ramsire and Tobias Whetstone

Ramsire, 49, received two indictments from the Hunt County grand jury in September; one for aggravated sexual assault of a child and another for indecency with a child by sexual contact. The former is a first degree felony, carrying a maximum sentence upon conviction of up to life in prison and the latter charge carries a maximum sentence of up to 20 years in prison.

The indictments allege Ramsire sexually assaulted Moore on multiple occasions in July of this year.


http://heraldbanner.com/topnews/x691735783/What-we-know-about-Terry-Ramsire-and-Tobias-Whetstone
 
  • #456
She was very vulnerable and in a sense, fragile.
 
  • #457
T Whetstone went on to say that her son has an alibi, saying he was at her aunt's home all day Friday, Saturday and Sunday.

www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Two-in-Custody-Tied-to-Slain-Teen-Alicia-Moore-177971971.html

Yeah... this alibi talk scares me. I posted the info below last night but then quickly deleted it pending confirmation that it was LE at least investigating this person and not just a reporter's speculation. I feel like TW's Mom, Aunt, and whoever else he has harmed with his actions are also victims so please understand I'm not 'bashing' them. I feel awful for his Mom in particular. I can't imagine having to even consider your own child could possibly be capable of something like this.

From the same article http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Two-in-Custody-Tied-to-Slain-Teen-Alicia-Moore-177971971.html

Friends of [TW] told NBC 5 that police officers used a stun gun and restraints to subdue him after a struggle. Witnesses to the arrest also told NBC 5 that at least five police vehicles, including unmarked cars, were involved in Whetstone's apprehension.

BBM.. this upset me so much. He does not look like a small guy. If it took that many cops, stun guns, and restraints... poor Alicia had absolutely no chance. :(
 
  • #458
  • #459
Snipped By Me

From the same article http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Two-in-Custody-Tied-to-Slain-Teen-Alicia-Moore-177971971.html

Friends of [TW] told NBC 5 that police officers used a stun gun and restraints to subdue him after a struggle. Witnesses to the arrest also told NBC 5 that at least five police vehicles, including unmarked cars, were involved in Whetstone's apprehension.

BBM.. this upset me so much. He does not look like a small guy. If it took that many cops, stun guns, and restraints... poor Alicia had absolutely no chance. :(

Additionally, he had an outstanding warrant for assault against a female family member:

Whetstone, 22, was arrested Thursday on an outstanding warrant on one misdemeanor count of assault causing bodily injury/family violence. Whetstone was alleged in the charge to have assaulted a female family member, not Moore, on September 26.

http://heraldbanner.com/topnews/x691735783/What-we-know-about-Terry-Ramsire-and-Tobias-Whetstone
 
  • #460
Saw this case last night on HLN so I'm reading backwards trying to catch up. I'm wondering if the man awaiting trial on sexual assault on this child conspired with the other man to "get rid of the witness" against him in the sexual assault charge? He is scheduled to be tried in January, 2013.
 

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