• #2,621
Witness says, due his disorders, TH is more likely to be a victim of violence than violent himself in prison.

Yes, because there are no little girls in prison.

TH will likely be kept in protective segregation because he is likely to be a victim due to the nature of his crimes.

JMO
 
  • #2,622
Is this ever going to be over?
 
  • #2,623
She believes Athena saw TH snort cocaine and the rest it was catastrophizing.

WTAH
and here I thought she actually knew her stuff and was qualified. If she believes that was why he did what he did I've got some swamp land to sell her.
 
  • #2,624
He probably was SA as a child.

It doesn’t matter for this case. He’s a grown adult who made decisions and choices and they were not out of rage or trauma triggers evident by the rest of his controlled decision making and planning and the type of crime
 
  • #2,625
She believes Athena saw TH snort cocaine and the rest it was catastrophizing.

WTAH
She believes a lie. TH lies and she believes. because she wants to believe. Sometimes I think these 'experts' want so badly to get a patient that has all these disorders that they've studied and read about and have never come across in their practice, that they forget logic. They inadvertently lead their subject with suggestive questions to aid in the manifestation of the disorder. moo
 
  • #2,626
He probably was SA as a child.

It doesn’t matter for this case. He’s a grown adult who made decisions and choices and they were not out of rage or trauma triggers evident by the rest of his controlled decision making and planning and the type of crime

Respectfully, we don't know this, nor can we assume it. Every psychopath who kills a child has not been SA. And everyone who has been SA has not killed a child.
 
  • #2,627
Why are the defense trying to flog a dead horse? Sorry if that makes no sense as a phrase. There is no defence on his actions, these witness’ creating a defence is just pointless
They are not offering a defense. What they are doing is trying their best to offer anything that could possibly be construed as a mitigating factor so TH is not sentenced to death. Where they are missing the mark is parading all these people in front of the jury who have known him and would never have predicted this violent, sadistic, depraved behavior from him as some sort of an indicator that he would never do it again, it's just not him. What this is really doing is showing us that he is unpredictable to lay persons and experts alike and is a danger because of that unpredictability and level of violence. moo
 
  • #2,628
  • #2,629
Respectfully, we don't know this, nor can we assume it. Every psychopath who kills a child has not been SA. And everyone who has been SA has not killed a child.
respectfully - it was the topic of conversation by the witness. Thus the reason I said it. I didn’t once imply that everyone who has been SA would kill a child. In fact I said it didn’t matter here…
 
  • #2,630
I'm just holding on to the hope that once the jury seen the images of Athena in the van and heard the audio , they made their decision to give a verdict of DP .

There is no way these trailer park witnesses for the defense have counterbalanced the emotional impact of seeing and hearing a child being drove to her death

The callous and evil way in which he procured and murdered Athena is enough to sway the most stalwart of an anti Death sentence stance among any jury members against it
 
  • #2,631
I just don't think this narrative is going to move the needle for the jury. An expert can say that he doesn't exhibit sadism, pedophi!!!ia, or has Autism or whatever. The fact that she was tortured for an hour AND he called her a b!tc% and sang a song as she was in extreme pain/fear/terror and......... (everything else that only those in the courtroom heard) can't be mitigated by his sad history or own abuse (physical or sexual). I am not pro DP but if the members of this jury agreed they could consider it then that hour long video and the calm demeanor and cigarette and lies will probably keep them in the DP side. JMHO.
 
  • #2,632
Was he struggling with his disregulation when depositing his DNA where it didn't belong?

She said he wasn't deriving sexual gratification.

Excuse me?
I’d like to know why she thinks he would remove the clothing of a 7 year old girl if it wasn’t for his sexual satisfaction.
 
  • #2,633
I’d like to know why she thinks he would remove the clothing of a 7 year old girl if it wasn’t for his sexual satisfaction.
I have a feeling we will hear about that perspective on the state's cross. I think the state will be relentless on some of her opining.
 
  • #2,634
I know I don't have to tell any of y'all why, "He raped and killed her because she saw him doing coke" is some of the dumbest stuff I've heard a desperate defense cook up.

And I also know addicts aren't particularly known for rational thinking or superior intellect but come on man. What is the average parent going to to seriously do if their kid says, "I saw the mail man sniff baby powder?" Call the police and give an extremely vague description of the subject, probably second hand info from the kid?

Did they even attempt to explain how a small child was able to see an adult sitting up high in a large mail truck snort coke?

MOO.
 
  • #2,635
I know I don't have to tell any of y'all why, "He raped and killed her because she saw him doing coke" is some of the dumbest stuff I've heard a desperate defense cook up.

And I also know addicts aren't particularly known for rational thinking or superior intellect but come on man. What is the average parent going to to seriously do if their kid says, "I saw the mail man sniff baby powder?" Call the police and give an extremely vague description of the subject, probably second hand info from the kid?

Did they even attempt to explain how a small child was able to see an adult sitting up high in a large mail truck snort coke?

MOO.

Just another lie. Like the one he told about hitting her with his truck.

I am really surprised that we have not heard from more psychiatric doctors, regarding the "multiple personality disorder" re: "Zero". Maybe that will be coming up.

TH, quite the marvel. Autistic, and has multiple personality disorder. Not.
 
  • #2,636
Surprised it took so long for pedophilia to be mentioned. Surprised there was no CSAM in discovery. I do agree with most of her conclusions although TH lying to her about the cocaine story muddies how accurate her parts of her evaluation could even be (she said he was eventually truthful but really glosses over the SA aspect when it appears a primary motivator). I do believe that he was very ashamed and Zero was the avenue to confess with distance. Being a hired gun vs. impartial court evaluator also makes me wary. But she’s thorough and thoroughly qualified. Also surprised the defense attorney didn’t ask her for her professional opinion if TH was ineligible for the death penalty considering it’s why we are all here.
 
Last edited:
  • #2,637
When asked to tell the jury about the point at which Horner decided to kill Athena, Ryan said, "he was pretty clear that he did not decide to kill Athena until she was in the truck. And then he began to think, 'Now I'm in even worse trouble than he was before.' I think he just... he described it as it snowballed into an avalanche. And he then said that he knew he had to kill her, and he tried to make it, as he put it, as painless and quick as possible. So he tried to, as he put it, snap her neck, but it's not like in the movies, and it wasn't working, and so he attempted to strangle her, and he had a number of attempts to strangle her, which were unsuccessful."

Ryan said Horner's actions were a "combination of ambivalence and incompetence," but she did not think it was sadistic or that he derived pleasure from Athena's suffering.

She told the jury that Horner was under a significant amount of stress leading up to Strand's murder.

Ryan explained to the jury that when she met with Horner, he told her that she picked up Athena because she saw him snorting cocaine. This was a departure from his earlier claims that he struck Athena with his truck.

She explained that this caused Horner to "catastrophize" and imagine the worst possible outcome. She said he was afraid of losing his job, and because of his "laser focus" on his son, he was distraught over the consequences of losing his job and was afraid he would lose his son, too.

Ryan said Horner's "jump from Point A to Point Z" was "completely unreasonable."

She told the jury that Horner spoke to her about assaulting Athena, despite the fact that he denied it at first. She said he finally told her the truth about the assault, and "the only other time that he had a similar demeanor was talking about his own rape when he was 10." She said he seemed to be deeply ashamed and remorseful for what he had done.
 
  • #2,638
I came back to this thread tonight fully expecting that defense would have wrapped it up and we’d be heading to closing arguments. Well, nope. Seriously, another week of this?

Many thanks to everyone who sat through the last 5 days of useless drivel and posted here. Sounds like ‘poor’ TH maybe had ASD, but no actual record of diagnosis exists. And no link between ASD and causation of becoming a rapist/murderer was introduced or proven. But defense still went there, because maybe the jury will just take their word for it. Got it. :rolleyes:

As to the witness who said TH should never have been alone in the truck. I think I read that she may not have known that Athena was brutally murdered? That better be the case, otherwise it was an utterly ridiculous statement.

The only person that should have never been inside that truck was Athena.
 

Guardians Monthly Goal

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
111
Guests online
2,108
Total visitors
2,219

Forum statistics

Threads
647,217
Messages
18,872,418
Members
246,257
Latest member
TheBigB
Top